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2008-01-24 6:19 PM

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Subject: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
I admit to being the slowest swimming learner ever as I have been learning for over 16 months. But perseverance has one out and the square peg is almost beaten round. But tonight I decided I was swimming well enough to establish a speed base. I am slow but what I noticed is I am 5 seconds faster per 100 using a pull bouy over swimming. Is that normal or does it indicate porr formor poor kick?


2008-01-24 6:22 PM
in reply to: #1174948

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
It tells me your legs/hips drop when you're swiming creating drag - ie bad form.

The buoy corrects your form by bringing your legs to the surface creating better form..
2008-01-24 6:23 PM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
running2far - 2008-01-24 6:22 PM

It tells me your legs/hips drop when you're swiming creating drag - ie bad form.

The buoy corrects your form by bringing your legs to the surface creating better form..


Yep.
2008-01-24 6:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?

fly_capt - 2008-01-24 4:19 PM I admit to being the slowest swimming learner ever as I have been learning for over 16 months. But perseverance has one out and the square peg is almost beaten round. But tonight I decided I was swimming well enough to establish a speed base. I am slow but what I noticed is I am 5 seconds faster per 100 using a pull bouy over swimming. Is that normal or does it indicate porr formor poor kick?

And the whole time I thought I was the only one.  The same thing happens to me.  It's nice to know what I am doing wrong so now I can go to the pool and try and correct it.

2008-01-24 7:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
You can easily correct that by pushing your heaad down slightly. It may feel strange, but you will feel your hips and legs rise.
2008-01-24 7:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?

That's why people like pull buoys

I don't think it necessarily means you have poor form just cuz you go faster, as I know very good swimmers that swim faster with them as well.  Just like a wetsuit will. But a buoy will hide poor form if you have it.. make sense?



2008-01-24 8:19 PM
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2008-01-24 8:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
Just don't get in the habit of depending on a bouy like a lot of others do.  You'll regret it later!  It will make you feel so much faster but a good kick will help with body rotation. Keep that head down looking at the bottom of the pool and that will help keep your legs and hips from sinking.  Keep practicing!!  Good luck!!
2008-01-24 9:30 PM
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Supersonicus Idioticus
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
I swim about 2 or 3 seconds faster with a pull buoy when going about 75% effort. At 90% effort I am faster with my legs.

Yes it is an indication of how your legs are floating, and a bit of how strongly you kick. So swimming with a pull buoy is a good sign of what you can become with a bit of practice.
2008-01-24 9:38 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?

Slight highjack here ---

Soooo how can you get your hips up? Is the only way to push head down? I feel soooo slow when I kick...and its as if I"m out of sync when I kick too. Do drill with just kicking/board help? Any drill suggestions?????

highjack off.

2008-01-25 12:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
According to my daughters, who are swimmers, going faster with a bouy could also mean that you are bicycle kicking.


2008-01-25 6:50 AM
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2008-01-25 6:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
I'm much faster with the buoy. My issue is certainly form. I can press my chin down into my chest and the legs still don't come up. I've come to accept that I'm probably not ever going to be a fast swimmer!!!
2008-01-25 7:00 AM
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Pasadena, Maryland
Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
Thanks for your insight. I was thinking body position so this is good. Just getting over my dependence on fins not planning on replacing it with the bouy.
2008-01-25 7:05 AM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?

So what does it mean when you are slower with a pull bouy?

I find I swim flat and feel like my legs are fish tailing behind me with a PB so I don't use one. 

2008-01-25 7:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
fly_capt - 2008-01-25 8:00 AM

Thanks for your insight. I was thinking body position so this is good. Just getting over my dependence on fins not planning on replacing it with the bouy.


I mostly just use the buoy for warm up/cool down sets now. And, I try to refine my arm movements while using it. A year ago I did most of my swimming with it. Try not to get hooked on it because it is a hard habit to break.


2008-01-25 7:20 AM
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2008-01-25 7:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?

 

It likely means that you do not have a problem with your legs sinking when you swim, and that your kick may be a significant part of your motion.

I have trouble with the fishtailing feeling at times as well.  I have a very weak kick, but I do use it to control body roll.  Without the kick to induce roll I have to concentrate to avoid the fishtail effect.  But, you can roll your body properly without using your legs, it just takes practice. 

KathyG - 2008-01-25 8:05 AM

So what does it mean when you are slower with a pull bouy?

I find I swim flat and feel like my legs are fish tailing behind me with a PB so I don't use one. 

2008-01-25 7:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
KathyG - 2008-01-25 9:05 AM

So what does it mean when you are slower with a pull bouy?

I find I swim flat and feel like my legs are fish tailing behind me with a PB so I don't use one. 

Without seeing you swim, my best guess would be that you are not pulling straight and your kick is used to even out your stroke.  When you swim with the PB, focus on pulling so that you are not fishtailing - if you start fishtailing, stop, try to identify what was different between when you were not fishtailing and when you started, and start again.  This can be frustrating but can be worth it to straighten out your stroke and allow you to use more of each pull for forward propulsion.

More than likely, this is a result of insufficient roll with the PB.  (edited to add - which I see someone else just mentioned )

Shane



Edited by gsmacleod 2008-01-25 8:00 AM
2008-01-25 8:07 AM
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2008-01-25 9:30 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
I experience the same thing, and I agree with the other posters who have stated that it is because of poor form/legs dropping in the water.  I know what the issue is, and now I have to find a way to fix it.  Until then, my laps with the PB will continue to be the only time I feel like I am gliding on the surface of the water. 


2008-01-25 11:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?
I coach high school swimming so I have a background with this...

It does mean you MAY have bad form (dragging you rear), it may mean you have strong pull and benefit from the "weightlessness" of your rear half. Just like wearing a wetsuit may you more faster because of the buoyancy. Outside of sprinting I encourage my swimmers to limit their kicking and only use it as a method of keeping good form (rear half horizontal).

Total Immersion teaches (correctly) that dragging your lower half is a balance issue. I have found the most effective thing is to imagine pressing your sternum down towards the bottom of the pool. Pressing your chin to your chest or lowering your head wouldn't be my suggestion, you take that too far and you will be pretty counter-productive.
2008-01-25 12:48 PM
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2008-01-25 1:07 PM
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2008-01-25 1:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming faster w/ bouy?

Good advice on pressing down with the chest it shold feel like you're swimming downhill.

Pull buoys make just about everyone I swim with a little faster because they raise your hips & get you streamlined in the water. You need to work on that form w/o the buoy but keep in mind the buoy is a good training tool itself aside from making you faster...Using a pull buoy is great for practicing bilateral breathing and also working on stroke or other drills like taking multiple strokes between breaths, not to mention a great pairing with swim paddles on various sets...

 

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