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2008-03-10 7:22 PM

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Elite
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Subject: hands during swimming?

Ok...not sure if this is a strange question or not...and I am sure that there is a thread of this someplace...but if someone can take pity on me by answering this form question I would greatly appreciate it. 

What is the shape and placement of your hand and arm when it hits the water and during follow through.  Is your hand cupped?  do the fingers hit the water first like a diver hitting the water...do you pull your hands under your chest or out to the body...what is the proper form for your hands.  I got my head and breathing down pretty good, but feel like I am flailing my arms around. 



2008-03-10 8:10 PM
in reply to: #1264078

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Elite
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
I'll try and do my best.  Hands should enter about shoulder width apart and above your head.  Not to far above head though.  I like to keep my hand flat and slice it into the water and reach as far forwrd as I possibly can.  Once you start the catch and pull you want to cup your hand.  I like to then aim my fingers down to catch more water.  Keep the elbow high and make sure you are feeling preasure on the forearm as you start to pull.  My movement brings my forearm under my body and then back out to my side as I am pushing down my body and past my hip.  When I am swimming well I can feel the water being pushed down my leg and past my feet.  Best advice I have is to only practice one thing at a time and don't move on until you think you have that part mastered.  I hop[e this helps you.
2008-03-10 8:19 PM
in reply to: #1264078

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Veteran
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Kansas City (Roeland Park)
Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
Disclaimer: I am slow and am doing everything I have read and learned on swim team >10yrs ago but have not had a coach recently.

I, as you described, shape my hand like a diver on the way into the water and then cup slightly on the catch but curl my thumb in to pull more water. During the pull, I pull towards my waist in an s shape. I figure that if my cadence remains constant and my hand travels farther my pull will be longer. (shortest distance = straight line so pulling in a line that is not straight = hand traveling more distance) Then I try to always remember to extend my arm all the way out. It feels like the hand in the cookie jar finish to a basketball shot. I have found that extending one arm all the way back makes it feel like I am reaching farther with the leading hand. Like you are pushing yourself down a slip and slide. The farther you push one arm back, the farther you can reach forward with the next arm.

Again, based on reading, this should be right. If I am wrong, please b-slap any of the above. I would love to learn anything new.
2008-03-10 8:19 PM
in reply to: #1264078

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Master
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Canton, Michigan
Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
Check out this thread from a couple of days ago, it may help. I posted links to some you tube videos that should make it clearer. There is a surprising amount of videos on you tube, the links will lead you to more videos to check out.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
2008-03-10 8:32 PM
in reply to: #1264078

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Elite
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
Thumbs first into the water, then cup, bend your elbows slightly and pull towards your side. I used to pull under me but apparently you can get a ful stroke by pulling to your side.


Enter towards the front of your head, and then extend fully, reaching to the point of stretching.

Edited by aarondavidson 2008-03-10 8:37 PM
2008-03-10 8:54 PM
in reply to: #1264078

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Elite
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?

Hands enter slightly to thumb side, but mostly straight (if that makes any sense at all) Your entry arm should them be extended out nearly straight while your other arm is finishing up the stroke on the other side. You want to take as much advantage of the glide as possible, as this is where your speed comes from.

Best description of the catch - pretend you are reaching in front of you over a barrel and then pulling it back towards you and pushing it behind you with your forearm/hand only. You want your elbows higher than your hand wrist at all times. Your hand/forearm should be what is catching most of the water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDpxZyUYvqU&feature=related

Pretty good video of what I'm talking about - watch what his hands/arms do in the water. This is what you are striving for.



Edited by cadreamer 2008-03-10 8:54 PM


2008-03-10 9:38 PM
in reply to: #1264078

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Expert
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?

Thumb and index finger enter first , with hand flat, but entering at an angle (the pinkie, at least in my case, points away from the water at roughly 45 degree angle).  The angle my thumbs enter may be off slightly, but softball in high school was not kind to my thumbs, so I don't know what the "right" position for the thumb is to the rest of the hand.  After entry, then turn hand somehow (I can't explain it over the internet), and all fingers pointing towards bottom of the pool.  And you don't want to cusp your hand, at least until after the catch (aka the part where the high elbows comes into play)- hand and wrist should form a straight paddle there, so to speak.  After that, I've seen other "fast" swimmers do a number of things with their hands...

When the hand enters the water when not at an angle, it might cause you to trap air bubbles under water (not that I know anything about that one Innocent).

2008-03-10 9:38 PM
in reply to: #1264078

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Master
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
My hand goes in thumb first. I lock my wrist and keep my fingers together. Because my body rotates back and forth my hand pretty much follows a straight line back to my hip area from where it entered the water.
2008-03-11 8:44 AM
in reply to: #1264078

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Elite
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
Thanks everyone!  This helps a lot!
2008-03-11 8:53 AM
in reply to: #1264078

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Expert
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Medina, MN
Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
I find it helpful to watch my hands enter the water as I swim. If I don't make any bubbles when my hand enters, I know it went in smoothly. I think as long as you're not making bubbles, you're doing it fine.
2008-03-11 8:54 AM
in reply to: #1264921

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Expert
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?

runningwoof - 2008-03-11 9:44 AM Thanks everyone!  This helps a lot!

Thanks from me too.  I was watching those Thorpe videos and concentrating on my hand entry this morning.  Boy it is difficult to put everything together. 



2008-03-11 9:04 AM
in reply to: #1264078

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Champion
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?

As for hand shape - this is very personal and something that you need to experiement with in order to find what is going to work for you.  If you watch swimmers, you will see a variety of hand shapes from completely rigid, fingers and thumbs together, to all digits splayed and the hand cupped.

Most will find that fingers slightly splayed, wrist straight and a slight cupping of the hand will be most efficient, however, as with anything, it will differ from athlete to athlete.

To work on this, try swimming with your hand in different positions and monitor your pace, strokes and effort levels.  You should be able to find a position that is slightly more efficient for you and then you can work on ingraining that position into your swimming.

Shane

2008-03-11 10:47 AM
in reply to: #1264961

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Giver
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
When you cup your hands, you decrease the size of your paddles...so...don't do that. Unless I'm racing against you, in which case, feel free.
2008-03-11 10:56 AM
in reply to: #1264078

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Elite
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
Work on ONE thing at a time.  Work on hand entry for a few laps, then on your arm movement, etc.  If you try to do too much at once it doesn't work.  Focus on one thing, get better at that, then move on.
2008-03-11 11:28 AM
in reply to: #1264434

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Master
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
Rowdy - 2008-03-10 9:38 PM

My hand goes in thumb first. I lock my wrist and keep my fingers together. Because my body rotates back and forth my hand pretty much follows a straight line back to my hip area from where it entered the water.


This is a great way to cause shoulder injury. Hand should not enter the water thumb first.

For some great, and free, swimming videos check here... its a great resource!

http://www.brightcove.tv/channel.jsp?channel=5957401&firstVideo=32

take care.
2008-03-11 11:40 AM
in reply to: #1265172

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Master
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?

run4yrlif - 2008-03-11 10:47 AM When you cup your hands, you decrease the size of your paddles...so...don't do that. Unless I'm racing against you, in which case, feel free.

I just worked on keeping my hands open and thumbs out with my coach this morning. I had been tucking my thumbs in, almost like making a fist, and that was slowing me down (hey, we all have our little quirks). The hand cup just doesn't have the same surface area.

Thanks for the video links! 



2008-03-11 12:18 PM
in reply to: #1265266

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Elite
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San Jose, CA
Subject: RE: hands during swimming?

 

This is a great way to cause shoulder injury. Hand should not enter the water thumb first. For some great, and free, swimming videos check here... its a great resource! http://www.brightcove.tv/channel.jsp?channel=5957401&firstVideo... take care.

ok...now I am confused...you are telling me not to have my thumb enter the water first...but in the video link their thumbs enter the water frist...and then quickly goes goes to palm down? 

2008-03-11 12:27 PM
in reply to: #1265266

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Master
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?

ranger5oh - 2008-03-11 11:28 AM
Rowdy - 2008-03-10 9:38 PM My hand goes in thumb first. I lock my wrist and keep my fingers together. Because my body rotates back and forth my hand pretty much follows a straight line back to my hip area from where it entered the water.
This is a great way to cause shoulder injury. Hand should not enter the water thumb first. For some great, and free, swimming videos check here... its a great resource! http://www.brightcove.tv/channel.jsp?channel=5957401&firstVideo... take care.

 I had my rotator cuff reconstructed 22 years ago and this works for me. I get zero shoulder pain if I swim this way. What is good for me might not be good for anybody else. I hope people are careful when they take this advice.

2009-05-13 10:01 AM
in reply to: #1264936

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Champion
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
MLJ - 2008-03-11 9:53 AM I find it helpful to watch my hands enter the water as I swim. If I don't make any bubbles when my hand enters, I know it went in smoothly. I think as long as you're not making bubbles, you're doing it fine.



Resurrecting an old thread (See, I used the search utility instead of starting a new thread)

I noticed this morning that I have a lot of bubbles coming off my hands during the pull. I've known this for a while but this morning it jumped out at me like a flare on a moonless night. From what I gather in this thread, the bubbles are a function of trapped air due to location of hand entry in the water. I do know that my hands enter pretty far out; my arm is almost fully extended when the hand enters the water. I have been doing that in an effort to "be long" as I've read many places. I am going to try different techniques and see what happens, but I have a race Sunday and don't plan on changing too much before then but this has now become something to obsess about. Nothing like a good obsession during taper
2009-05-13 10:09 AM
in reply to: #1265198

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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
cadreamer - 2008-03-11 10:56 AM Work on ONE thing at a time.  Work on hand entry for a few laps, then on your arm movement, etc.  If you try to do too much at once it doesn't work.  Focus on one thing, get better at that, then move on.


I couldn't agree with this more!  I watched a bunch of youtube videos and was armed with all sorts of great info that I wanted to incorporate into my swim - I jumped in the pool and tried to put it all together just like is was in my head - I pretty much sank!  I work on one thing at a time now... and I still have a long list!
2009-05-13 10:11 AM
in reply to: #1264078

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Veteran
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
Yeah I definately would not change anything right before a race. For me, my hands go in the water while my arms are bent, probably near my head, then I reach far forward underwater, like I'm trying to get something off of a high shelf or something to that effect.  That's what works for me.


2009-05-13 10:22 AM
in reply to: #1265371

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Master
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
runningwoof - 2008-03-11 11:18 AM
ok...now I am confused...

In order to avoid confusion, my advice would be to only consider advice from those you know are FOP swimmers with some level of competitive swimming background. I'm not saying the advice from those folks is guaranteed to be good, but at least it provides something to use as a filter.

My second bit of advice would be to do a forum search on all the posts from tjfry and read everything he's posted about swimming. I know there are other great swimmers/teachers here but his posts stand out for me.
2009-05-13 2:24 PM
in reply to: #1265172

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Expert
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The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
run4yrlif - 2008-03-11 10:47 AM When you cup your hands, you decrease the size of your paddles...so...don't do that. Unless I'm racing against you, in which case, feel free.


Exactly. It's all about the surface area that is pulling water. If you cup your hand you decrease the surface area that pulls the water. Think of it like pulling through the water with a bowl versus pulling with a plate. Same total area, but area that is grabbing the water is much smaller with the bowl.
2009-05-13 2:25 PM
in reply to: #2148147

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Expert
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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
breckview - 2009-05-13 10:22 AM
runningwoof - 2008-03-11 11:18 AM ok...now I am confused...
In order to avoid confusion, my advice would be to only consider advice from those you know are FOP swimmers with some level of competitive swimming background. I'm not saying the advice from those folks is guaranteed to be good, but at least it provides something to use as a filter. My second bit of advice would be to do a forum search on all the posts from tjfry and read everything he's posted about swimming. I know there are other great swimmers/teachers here but his posts stand out for me.


Thanks man, I appreciate that!

tj
2009-05-14 12:47 AM
in reply to: #2148831

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Subject: RE: hands during swimming?
tjfry - 2009-05-13 2:25 PM
breckview - 2009-05-13 10:22 AM
runningwoof - 2008-03-11 11:18 AM ok...now I am confused...
In order to avoid confusion, my advice would be to only consider advice from those you know are FOP swimmers with some level of competitive swimming background. I'm not saying the advice from those folks is guaranteed to be good, but at least it provides something to use as a filter. My second bit of advice would be to do a forum search on all the posts from tjfry and read everything he's posted about swimming. I know there are other great swimmers/teachers here but his posts stand out for me.


Thanks man, I appreciate that!

tj


I also have appreciated your insight and videos.  (And love the name, my son TJ is my avatar snorkeling last year at age 3.

If I may pick your brain a bit more?  How does your hand enter the water? 

Thanks for all the swim input! 
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