General Discussion Triathlon Talk » BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference Rss Feed  
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2004-12-29 7:33 PM

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Subject: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference

I have a question for all those using Triathlete Training Bible or GOING LONG.  The Annual Training Plan calls for a number of different periods,  Prep, Base, Build and Peak. 

I'm trying to understand what's the difference between the Build Phase and the Base phase.  The book says to do more race-specific workouts.  But other than bricks,  I cannot think of other race-specific workouts.  For an Ironman,  what will be the RACE-SPECIFIC workouts?

Also,  in preparation for an Ironman,  GOING LONG suggested that novice athletes could be doing BASE all the way up to their top priority race.  What exactly does this mean?  Just building to a 2.4 mile swim, 6 hour bike ride and a 3 hour run?? 

Hopefully some of you here using TTB can offer some insight.

THANKS!



2004-12-29 8:26 PM
in reply to: #97073

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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference
From my reading of TTB, I think it has to do with intensity, not necessarily volume. Base periods are lower intensity, build higher. If you look at the suggested workouts at the end of the book, the more high-intensity workouts are suggested for Build periods.

I think your right on for why novices should stick to base periods (although a 3 hr marathon isn't beginner!). The biggest challenge for novices will obviously be just finishing the race, so it makes sense to stick in the base periods.
2004-12-29 9:25 PM
in reply to: #97073

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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference
My understanding is that the Base period is giving you the base of fitness you need to really train to race. Then in the Build Phase you are doing more training to simulate racing. For example, you cant simulate a 2.4 mile swim at race pace untill you can comfortably complete a 2.4 mile swim. Build is when you will start doing more speed work.

Also, many people do diffrent types of non-tri-specific training such as spinning, weights, pilates, step aerobicsearly in the season. I personally do this untill March or so because it rains a little during the winter in Seattle, so most of my winter training is indoors, and there is only so much time you can put in on a trainer or treadmill before you go insane! My base 2 will start first week of March and will cut out all of the spin, and aerobics type classes. I will begine to focus completly on swimming, biking, and running untill late fall.

Just my .02, but I hope it helps.
2004-12-30 2:02 AM
in reply to: #97073

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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference
To me, my base phases is increasing the capacity of my endurance engine while my build phases "build" on this engine to gradually get me ready for my higher intensity "speed" work during my peak phase.

2004-12-30 9:09 AM
in reply to: #97174

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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference

Steve's progression is correct. In my experience, this method of building a season works well for distances up to about half Ironman: The line in the sand, so to speak, between Base and Build is when you move to the goal of building Muscular Endurance (the ability to push the pedals for a long time + the ability to push hard on those pedals, for example). The TTB method is to begin incorporating sessions with training time at or near lactate threshold. The classics are LT intervals on the bike (for example, 3 x 15' with 4-5' rest), tempo running, some track work, etc.

However, in my experience this structure begins to fall apart for the IM distance, especially for the self-coached athlete. I learned this hard way in my first two years of IM training. I extended the TTB progression straight through my season and was doing a LOT of LT work in addition to IM-flavor training volume. For the self-coached athlete who might not have the experience of managing their volume and intensity, this TTB prescribed intensity combined with IM-flavor volume is a dangerous combination.

I break the season into General Preparation, the It's On Day, and Race Preparation, as I feel these are more descriptive:

  • General Prep: "training to train," building the basic endurance systems required for IM success. Address critical limiters but also establish habit patterns that address the "little details" of stretching, core strength, nutrition, etc. Most important, the athlete is training to train, NOT training for the Ironman. There must be an element of mental relaxation, otherwise you'll go nuts. With athletes registering for IM's 364 days in advance, I find my job is more managing their heads than their bodies.
  • It's On Day: the day on the calendar when we finally begin to train for the race. We shift the head and take on a....greater sense of urgency, I suppose. This date is a largely a function of the athletes support systems: first, for how long can the athlete's work and personal lives sustain a high level of mental focus and committment to training volume? Second, what kind of endurance base have we built and can we sustain that volume?
  • Race Prep: we've done all of our homework (reduced body comp, flexible, fixed our bike fit, etc) and now focus on the requirements for IM success: cycling endurance, running strength, mental strength and solid execution shills. Key workouts are what I call "epic" cycling sessions, frequent long runs of 1:45-2:00, and race rehearsals (100-112 bike/30' run, exactly like race day). During this period I use the tool of Bike Weeks and Run Weeks, where we push the volume and frequency envelope of one sport and simply maintain the other sport. This is a good tool for managing the volume and recovery cost.

More detail here: http://www.cruciblefitness.com/coaching/TrainingPlans/preview.htm

If this is stuff that's counter to some books you've read, that's because I've made much of it up   I've taken some stuff from here, other stuff from someplace else, and honed it through experience, trial and error. I've been working very closely with Joe and Gordo for about 3 years now and I wrote a swimming catch article for the book. However, the template for the seasonal structure of GL is based on the TTB. If you were to talk to Gordo he'd probably have similar ideas as mine, with regards to naming or structuring a season. We're both IM-specific coaches, though I focus on applying the ideas to more....real world situations, I guess. My focus is on doing what I can with the hours the athlete has given me to train. I spend a huge amount of time tricking the athlete into not thinking he's training, coming up with whacked out stuff for them to do, to keep it fun and expand their experience with volume and distance, etc.

Crap, gotta get to work! We've had a break in the weather and I'm hopping on the motorcycle today for a run in the mountains.

Cheers,

2004-12-30 3:03 PM
in reply to: #97202

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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference
Wow. Commenting after Rich's is like doing karoake when you can't sing and the person before you had a magical voice.

I've read Rich's website countless times (amazing resource). Second what he wrote above.


2004-12-30 3:19 PM
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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference
Great articles rich...
2004-12-30 3:35 PM
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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference

Thanks for the clarification and tips Rich.  Great article too!

Another question though,  its stated in Going Long that one should aim to build Base till he can comfortably complete at 5 hour ride. But it didnt say HOW FAST this ride should be done at?  I mean,  a person could probably go at 14-15 mph and do a 5 hour ride,  but does that mean he's ready for the Build phase?

Thanks

2004-12-31 10:32 AM
in reply to: #97415

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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference

I do things differently and you might call it reverse periodization, in that I prescribe Build-type stuff early in the season and Base-type stuff (higher volume) closer to the race.

Sketch ATP, for CDA

January-March: run focus period (4-5+ runs per week, lots of road races on the calendar, especially half marys). Swim is technique focused. Don't worry about cycling volume. Shoot for 1 x LT interval session, 1 x long (2-4hrs consistently, for IM athletes) per week, short 1-2 hr ride in there somewhere as well. If the athlete is chained to trainer I usually just have them ride twice per week, but they are runnin' fools.

April-May: run continues as per Jan-March but increase long run volume to 2+hrs. Turn down the intensity of that bike LT session and begin to apply more cycling volume. Here is where I want the athlete to ahve some 'epic' cycling weekends on the calendar: double long rides, point to point rides, etc. Really push the distance envelope.  Race rehearsal end of April, end of May. June is lots of bricks and race pace stuff.

In summary, I've found there is not much place at all for build-type run training in the context of Ironman training. Track, for about 90% of the athletes out there, is a waste of time. However, LT interval stuff on the bike is very usuful, all year round. We use the low volume period of Jan-March as an opportunity to hit the LT stuff. However, when the cycling volume increase, the LT stuff gets turn down. The net is I want the athlete to exit March with EXCELLENT run fitness, of a half-marathon flavor, excellent swim technique, body comp, flexibility, and high watts at lactate threshold. All the limiters have been addressed. Then we turn the heat down, turn the volume up and keep it rolling through about 3 weeks out from the race.

Lots of ideas in here I can talk about but I've got to get a ton of work done before I go to Hong Kong next week. I did a lot of riding around yesterday and I think my mission for the next 2-3 months is to make people see that it doesn't always have to be spreadsheets and geeked-out workouts. I've developed a pretty good system of using cool events to build fitness and keep it fun. I don't really train so much as I use my body as a vehicle to do cool stuff. Climbing TT's with my tri club, fun hammer rides down the beach with my friends, a run to the top of a mountain, a fun,.annual training camp on the Wildflower course with my buds, a killer double century here, an epic cycling weekend there, stuff like that. I think we get too geeked out over stuff and miss an opportunity to something really cool and fun with our fitness. To me, IM is just one day. But in May I'm going to ride solo 800-900 miles through the parks in southern Utah. That's an adventure that is far better than IM, in my mind.

Crap, gotta work. Cheers.

2005-01-01 1:55 PM
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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference
Rich- What you described is very similar to what feels "natural " to me- untrained novice -feeling as tho the short fast race is NOT the "thing" for me- endurance at a "reasonable" pace is- so for that type of wannabe-it seems like eyeing the longer distance races-oly & 1/2 iron- maybe is not as crazy as it seemed....?

oops- didn't mean to hijack- just got into the discussion- sorry

Edited by isis54 2005-01-01 1:56 PM
2005-01-02 8:54 PM
in reply to: #97622

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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference

Thanks for the great post Rich.

I'm doing IMCDA,  so your sample ATP was perfect!  And your ATP does go against some of the principals of TTB,  with regards to the reverse periodization.  I personally think your ATP will work for someone more experienced, someone who has in the previous seasons already built up a sufficient amount of base in order to handle the LT straight away.

But I do agree that LT/ track work for IM athletes is NOT very beneficial as ME is the limiter for most long distance athletes.

Thanks again for the great long post and have fun in Hong Kong.



2005-01-03 7:06 AM
in reply to: #97073

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Subject: RE: BUILD VS BASE? Whats the difference

My Beginner training plans that I'm offering on trainingpeaks.com don't have any LT work at all on the bike. For the intermediates I don't start it up until about week 8, I think. Advanced hit is pretty much out of the gate. Regardless, we're only talking about 25-45 minutes of total work interval time within an entire training plan and the week is scheduled to manage the recovery cost of that session.

I've shifted my training ideas back and forth between a few schools of thought. At first, I followed the TTB progression, until I figured out it just didn't work when applied to IM volume, particularly the run intensity. Or, rather, it did work but it was very difficult to manage. Then I moved over to a....higher volume approach, with lots of Zone 2-3/Steady time and almost no intensity. Now I guess you could say that I'm back in the intensity camp, but very, very tightly controlled and managed. LT work is very, very time efficient training. A 60', highly structured session per week can get you much faster in a very short period of time. You just have to manage the risk. I manage bike and running intensity by doing it, if any, relatively early in the season and far away from the high volume stuff. More importantly, I pay a great deal of attention to how to schedule the athletes training week, so that the high risk sessions are separated by 36 to 48 hours.

If you agree with my assessment that "its not about how goes the fastest, but rather who slows down the least," then that description will largely guide your training. 3:20 marathoners don't run 4:30's off the bike because they're slow runners. They fall off the pace because they've training for a marathon, not an Ironman. Likewise, 4:10 marathoners don't run 4:30's because they're fast. They've just trained correctly, raced correctly and the two combine to help them simply not slow down.

Crazy jet-lagged,

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