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2008-08-07 10:45 PM

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Subject: Treadmill for gaining speed

I am running a 10K at the end of the month and I am determined to break 48 min.  Lately I have been using the treadmill so I can make sure I am running the right pace.  It seems to be working, although I haven't tested it on the road yet in a race or trial. 

 

So I am going for a 8min mile pace for the 10K, right now I am forcing my fast runs at better than 8min pace.  i.e. today I went for 3 miles at 7:30 to teach myself what a faster pace is.

 

Does anyone else use the treadmill for speedwork?  Comments about your results appreciated.

 

 



2008-08-07 10:48 PM
in reply to: #1589243

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

yep,  treadmills are a great tool to help promote a quick turnover.  you can also be very regimineted when doing intervals or such.  (as opposed to outside where terrain and weather often dictate your work load)

just make sure you don't stay on the treadmill for all your workouts.  Your body needs to adapt to the elements, varrying terrain, and the additional stress on joints.

2008-08-07 11:02 PM
in reply to: #1589243

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

Yup, quite often.

I usually do my V02Max Intervals either at the track or on the Treadie as well as Tempo Runs and Progression Runs every once in a while.

The Treadie is great for these types of workouts and at least in my experience, you will see immediate benefits out on the road.

2008-08-07 11:17 PM
in reply to: #1589243

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
8 minute miles will only get you about a 49 minute + 10k. You have that .22 miles after mile 6.

And treadmill distance measurements arent always entirely accurate.

You are on the right track, but try doing a run outdoors, so you have a better idea of where you are.

And if you do every run at race pace you will probably wind up getting hurt. Some runs at race pace or better are good. All runs at race pace will be you up over the long run.
2008-08-08 1:53 AM
in reply to: #1589243

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
I used the treadmill a lot this spring for my shorter speed/tempo work to avoid re-injuring myself and it worked out great. Alternating intervals at 7:30 or so for one mile, then one minute of walking, for 3 to 4 miles. Incline increases at each mile while keeping pace. It was brutal. I got my first sub 48 10K at the end of June (47:59 to be exact!) and I actually think it was more due to building endurance on my long slow runs. I ran my weekend runs at a 9:30 pace and generally ran 6 miles but built up to 8.5 miles 2 weeks before my race.

Just looking at your logs, it's hard to know what sort of running base you have. I never used the run/walk thing before this year, but for me it has really worked to stretch my calves out and I never ran the full 6 miles at race pace until race day. I never even ran 3 miles straight at race pace until race day.

Good luck to you, and like the previous poster said, don't do all your runs too fast...
2008-08-08 7:07 AM
in reply to: #1589243

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

75~85% of my training for an April 1/2 mary was on a treadmill.  I beat my goal time by 5 mins. 



2008-08-08 7:16 AM
in reply to: #1589243

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
I use it a lot as well. I agree with the above posts that its good for "forcing" your legs to turnover.

Does anyone else feel that running an X minute mile on a treadmill feels a lot harder than running that same pace outside? I do, and I have no idea why.
2008-08-08 7:25 AM
in reply to: #1589243

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

The treadmill can be very useful for speedwork as it can force you to run at the same rate for the entire interval.

However, I would avoid running 3 miles faster than 10km race pace - typically runners will get more value using the following guidelines:

Faster than 10km race pace - short intervals (400m, 600m, 800m, 1000m and for very fast runners, 1200m and 1600m) with recovery somewhere between 1:1 and 1:2 - 1x/week

At or slightly slower than 10km pace - sustained runs of 2-4 miles - 1x/week

Much slower than 10km pace - everything else

Shane

2008-08-08 8:03 AM
in reply to: #1589402

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
JohnAgs3 - 2008-08-08 8:16 AM

I use it a lot as well. I agree with the above posts that its good for "forcing" your legs to turnover.

Does anyone else feel that running an X minute mile on a treadmill feels a lot harder than running that same pace outside? I do, and I have no idea why.


I completely feel that way. My road runs are so much easier, faster, and less taxing according to my HRM. I did an interval workout on the treadmill on Wednesday and thought I was going to die! I think that on the road, things happen much more naturally. On the treadmill, my gait is different, who knows...
I like having a treadmill though and I do use it when I absolutely can't get outside.
2008-08-08 12:35 PM
in reply to: #1589465

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
nuttysami123 - 2008-08-08 9:03 AM
JohnAgs3 - 2008-08-08 8:16 AM I use it a lot as well. I agree with the above posts that its good for "forcing" your legs to turnover. Does anyone else feel that running an X minute mile on a treadmill feels a lot harder than running that same pace outside? I do, and I have no idea why.
I completely feel that way. My road runs are so much easier, faster, and less taxing according to my HRM. I did an interval workout on the treadmill on Wednesday and thought I was going to die! I think that on the road, things happen much more naturally. On the treadmill, my gait is different, who knows... I like having a treadmill though and I do use it when I absolutely can't get outside.


There's a lot more going on, on a treadmill than simple all out running. You are using muscles to balance at the same time. Most runs on a treadmill are going to be slighty more difficult than the same run on the road for that very reason. Your simply doing more.

I do intervals / speed work on the Treadmill. Just did a set of 800's. 8 x 800 to be exact. Was pretty difficult to say the least. That same workout is done slightly faster on a track. I'm prepping for Chicago now. Hoping to BQ and do ~ a 3:10. So no fears about doing work on a treadmill. Just make sure you get some good road work in too.
2008-08-08 12:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

I run on a treadmill sometimes, but I hate it.  I guess that's not a popular answer on this thread, but it's the honest answer. 

I do find it easier, though, which is why I do it sometimes.  It is much easier on the joints just because the surface is so well cushioned, and joint pain and stress are my limiters right now.

I guess I don't have any trouble forcing myself to run faster outdoors, when training calls for it.  If anything, I have to think consciously about slowing down on my training runs.  Every time I manage to stay more than a minute over marathon race pace for an entire training run, I congratulate myself.



2008-08-08 8:25 PM
in reply to: #1590310

Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

I started on a treadmill (pacemaster) and then thought I need a bike, hey I should swim too.  I like the trreadmill because it forces my times.  Also it inspires my 7 year old to jump on when I am done.  IMHO sittting her exercise habits at that age is more important then anything.

Joe

2008-08-08 8:38 PM
in reply to: #1591479

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

I do not recommend treadmills, but if you are going to use one, be sure to have the slope set at 1% or so (or up the resistance) so that it more mimics actual road running.

The best use of it that I have found is to help your body understand what a certain pace feels like with a constant load.  Doing a tempo session of 3 - 6 miles at your tempo pace (right around your LT for HR people or around your 1/2 marathon to 15k race pace) gives you the experience of running at your LT pace for a sustained effort and is one of the best way to make physiological adaptations and raise your pace at LT.

Now ...... the caveat is that there is very little that you can do between now and your race at the end of the month that is going to boost your speed much.  It takes from 4 - 6 weeks in a training cycle to reap the benefits of any specific training adaptations.  But I would recommend getting out on the road on a measured course and see if you can really sustain the pace you want to hold.  A 10k should be an above-LT effort and it usually comes down to a mental battle more than physical ability to hold the pace.  After about 4 miles it really starts to hurt to push it that much ......

2008-08-09 6:30 PM
in reply to: #1591509

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
Daremo - 2008-08-08 9:38 PM

I do not recommend treadmills, but if you are going to use one, be sure to have the slope set at 1% or so (or up the resistance) so that it more mimics actual road running.

The best use of it that I have found is to help your body understand what a certain pace feels like with a constant load.  Doing a tempo session of 3 - 6 miles at your tempo pace (right around your LT for HR people or around your 1/2 marathon to 15k race pace) gives you the experience of running at your LT pace for a sustained effort and is one of the best way to make physiological adaptations and raise your pace at LT.

Now ...... the caveat is that there is very little that you can do between now and your race at the end of the month that is going to boost your speed much.  It takes from 4 - 6 weeks in a training cycle to reap the benefits of any specific training adaptations.  But I would recommend getting out on the road on a measured course and see if you can really sustain the pace you want to hold.  A 10k should be an above-LT effort and it usually comes down to a mental battle more than physical ability to hold the pace.  After about 4 miles it really starts to hurt to push it that much ......

Not so fast my friend (with apologies to Lee Corso), physiological adaptations can take place in as little as 7-10 days depending on the athlete. If the OP has been running on a treadmill for sometime now at a "forced pace" then they will certainly see the effects by the end of the month.

As far as treadmills go I think they are a wonderful tool when used properly. I have a series of treadmill workouts that I prescribe on a regular basis and it is amazing how quickly some athletes adapt to the forced pace.

2008-08-09 7:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

Rocket Man - 2008-08-09 7:30 PM Not so fast my friend (with apologies to Lee Corso), physiological adaptations can take place in as little as 7-10 days depending on the athlete. If the OP has been running on a treadmill for sometime now at a "forced pace" then they will certainly see the effects by the end of the month.

I'll agree with that.  If the OP was already incorporating the faster tempo paced stuff then it would have helped.  But considering they will need 1 - 2 weeks of taper if this is their key race, then they only really have one week or so to do it if they were just planning ot incorporate it now.

2008-08-10 4:17 AM
in reply to: #1589243

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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

Track IT are the best if you want to achieve a good speed improvement.

I never trained on a treadmill because after 5mins I get crazy on that. 



2008-08-10 8:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
Daremo - 2008-08-09 8:48 PM

Rocket Man - 2008-08-09 7:30 PM Not so fast my friend (with apologies to Lee Corso), physiological adaptations can take place in as little as 7-10 days depending on the athlete. If the OP has been running on a treadmill for sometime now at a "forced pace" then they will certainly see the effects by the end of the month.

I'll agree with that.  If the OP was already incorporating the faster tempo paced stuff then it would have helped.  But considering they will need 1 - 2 weeks of taper if this is their key race, then they only really have one week or so to do it if they were just planning ot incorporate it now.

isn't a 2 week taper for a 10k race a bit long?

2008-08-10 8:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
cathyd - 2008-08-10 8:34 AM
Daremo - 2008-08-09 8:48 PM

Rocket Man - 2008-08-09 7:30 PM Not so fast my friend (with apologies to Lee Corso), physiological adaptations can take place in as little as 7-10 days depending on the athlete. If the OP has been running on a treadmill for sometime now at a "forced pace" then they will certainly see the effects by the end of the month.

I'll agree with that.  If the OP was already incorporating the faster tempo paced stuff then it would have helped.  But considering they will need 1 - 2 weeks of taper if this is their key race, then they only really have one week or so to do it if they were just planning ot incorporate it now.

isn't a 2 week taper for a 10k race a bit long?

Not if it supports the point you're arguing!

2008-08-10 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed

cathyd - 2008-08-10 9:34 AM isn't a 2 week taper for a 10k race a bit long?

I said 1 - 2 weeks.  Definition of a taper is a gradual decrease in the training volume.  Want to explain how you can do that in just a week??  And for someone using an oly. as their "A" race they want to be 100% prepared.

A lot of training plans for an oly. are only a few workouts different than one for an HIM.  And most HIM plans are 3 week tapers.

The only real difference in training for an oly. versus a HIM is in the types of workouts.  Usually they are both still similar in overall time spent.

2008-08-10 12:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
Daremo - 2008-08-09 4:58 PM

cathyd - 2008-08-10 9:34 AM isn't a 2 week taper for a 10k race a bit long?

I said 1 - 2 weeks. Definition of a taper is a gradual decrease in the training volume. Want to explain how you can do that in just a week?? And for someone using an oly. as their "A" race they want to be 100% prepared.

A lot of training plans for an oly. are only a few workouts different than one for an HIM. And most HIM plans are 3 week tapers.

The only real difference in training for an oly. versus a HIM is in the types of workouts. Usually they are both still similar in overall time spent.

 Now I am thinking to my first IM where I will be tapering 2 weeks only...

For my HIMs I tapered 1 week but they were B races.

Would you suggest 3 weeks for IM as A race? 

2008-08-10 2:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
Plissken74 - 2008-08-10 1:31 PM Now I am thinking to my first IM where I will be tapering 2 weeks only...

For my HIMs I tapered 1 week but they were B races.

Would you suggest 3 weeks for IM as A race? 

First answer would be "Follow whatever plan you are using."

Second answer would be, for an "A" race, definitely.  But there is an art to tapering.  It is not simply reducing your volumes each week.

I did a two week taper for IMLP because I needed the extra week to try and get some sort of base in to even be remotely close to having any sort of fitness.



2008-08-10 4:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
I had alot of luck with gaining speed and treadmills. even with no training run longer than 5 miles I was able to ulimately take off 30 mins off my marathon pr this year. One reason I think is because running 10 min miles for 30 miles for me made 12:30 pace feel like I was crawling and made the marathon feel easier. I did drop 30 lbs too so that could be it also.
2008-08-10 10:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
Daremo - 2008-08-10 10:58 AM

cathyd - 2008-08-10 9:34 AM isn't a 2 week taper for a 10k race a bit long?

I said 1 - 2 weeks.  Definition of a taper is a gradual decrease in the training volume.  Want to explain how you can do that in just a week??  And for someone using an oly. as their "A" race they want to be 100% prepared.

A lot of training plans for an oly. are only a few workouts different than one for an HIM.  And most HIM plans are 3 week tapers.

The only real difference in training for an oly. versus a HIM is in the types of workouts.  Usually they are both still similar in overall time spent.

I assumed OP was training for a <48 min stand alone 10k run, in which case I would still argue that a 2 week taper is a bit long .... I realize you said 1 - 2 weeks but there is a big difference between 7 days and 14 days.  

If OP's goal is a <48 min 10k run as part of an olympic tri then I have no opinion about the training/taper as I still know very little about triathlon training/tapering.

2008-08-11 8:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
""And treadmill distance measurements arent always entirely accurate. ""


AMEN. I run much faster on the road than I can on a treadmill.
2008-08-11 9:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Treadmill for gaining speed
cathyd - 2008-08-10 11:35 PM I assumed OP was training for a <48 min stand alone 10k run, in which case I would still argue that a 2 week taper is a bit long .... I realize you said 1 - 2 weeks but there is a big difference between 7 days and 14 days.  

If OP's goal is a <48 min 10k run as part of an olympic tri then I have no opinion about the training/taper as I still know very little about triathlon training/tapering.

I also need to apologize as I got into "tri" mode thinking without re-reading the OP in that this was a stand alone race, not an oly.

For a stand alone, yes, no reason not to just back it off the week of, as long as their volume hasn't been in the high range building up to that week

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