General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double? Rss Feed  
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2008-08-08 9:24 AM

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Subject: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

Folks,

I am going to get a new bike and am leaning toward a Cervelo Soloist. My current bike is a Trek Pilot 1.0. It has a 52 42 30 triple up front with a 12 / 26  8 speed rear. There are times that I actually use the granny gear. The standard Ultegra setup on the soloist is a 53 / 39 double in the front and a 12/25 10 speed rear. The top end range is OK for me, but I am very concerned about the low end. This is my second season of riding and the only bike I have ever ridden is my Trek. Do you simply get used to not having the low end? Should I look into a compact double to get some of the low end back?  

chevy57
    

 



2008-08-08 9:29 AM
in reply to: #1589656

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

I personally feel that a 39/25 is more than enough gearing to get someone up almost anything.  But each person is different.

If you are concerned about it then perhaps go with the compact (do NOT get a triple unless you cannot go more than 6 or 7 mph up a hill - they are a waste in my opinion).  But I would usually push for riding what is on the bike and then seeing if there are any issues with daily training.

2008-08-08 9:35 AM
in reply to: #1589656

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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
The double sounds wise. If this is your second season, you don't want to buy a bike over your abilities and get frustrated or worse yet, injured. I had the 52/42/30 triple and that 42 IS different than a standard 39. I acually prefer the 42 but need some hill crutch sometimes, hence, I went double. I'd leave the cassette as is and swap for a double.

Good thing is: New is the time to ask your LBS about this. You might get some store credit for the unsused new crankset toward that compact. Once it leaves the shop, you're buying the compact at full price. Some shops will do these swaps, some won't.
2008-08-08 9:45 AM
in reply to: #1589670

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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
Daremo - 2008-08-08 10:29 AM

I personally feel that a 39/25 is more than enough gearing to get someone up almost anything. But each person is different.

If you are concerned about it then perhaps go with the compact (do NOT get a triple unless you cannot go more than 6 or 7 mph up a hill - they are a waste in my opinion). But I would usually push for riding what is on the bike and then seeing if there are any issues with daily training.

 

My entry level Allez came with a triple. I never use the little ring up front. 

2008-08-08 9:54 AM
in reply to: #1589656

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
I would definitely see if the LBS will swap the double that comes on the bike for a comparable compact.  If you find yourself using the 30, then you will likely appreciate the gearing on something like a 50/34 up front.
2008-08-08 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

yeah, dump the triple.  I have a triple now and I HATE it. 

You might not need a compact however.  Do you think you would need a lower gear if your triple's middle ring was 39 rather than a 42? 



2008-08-08 10:15 AM
in reply to: #1589656

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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

So I tend to go against the grain here, not sure why but I like it that way.. I was reading over on ST and Jordan Rapp (pro/fast biker) made a statement that he believes 50 % of triathletes should be on a triple, the next 40/45 percent on a compact and only the top 5% should ride doubles.. I agree with the statement.. I have no hangups with a triple (other than the front dérailleur can be a little harder to tune) but people still think it is something evil and refuse to use certain gears.. forget that "I will not use granny idea).. it doesn't make you a better triathlete or any faster.. in fact it slows you down as you tear up your legs mashing your way up the hill, enjoy not using the right gear so you look good.. for some reason triathletes believe they have the same FTP (functional threshold power) as pro riders, so they should use the same equipment.. you don't .. and therefore use something that matches your ability .. most triathletes bottom out on the low end wrt cadence .. not the top end..

Looking at current Ultegra setups (Name/Weight/Gearing)

ultegra FC-6600 833g 52-39 or 53-39
ultegra FC-6650-S 848g 50-34
ultegra FC-6603 922g 52-39-30

Weight difference between Double and triple .1962 lbs, and Compact and Triple .1631 lbs.

Assume a 12-25 cassette, speed range at 90RPM

Double 11 mph to 30.5/31.1 (52/53)
Triple 8.4 mph to 30.5
Compact 9.6 mph to 29.3

If you are a weight weenie, fine.. if you are a MOP cyclist, you will definitely max out on the low end on a difficult hill with a double and probably a compact, and sometimes a triple.. and if you are a BOP cyclist you will max out on the low end on a moderate hill with a double/compact/and prob triple.. but in all cases, you can push a higher cadence on the triple (That 1.2mph is huge at 8% grade).. so IMHO a triple could help you get a faster bike split due to less fatigue on the legs and is probable appropriae for at least half of triathletes out there .. and people should ride a crankset matching their abilities, not based on image



Edited by slake707 2008-08-08 10:31 AM
2008-08-08 10:30 AM
in reply to: #1589840

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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

I agree with you that one should ride the bike of their abilities, not to an image.  But I don't hate my triple due to image issues.  I hate it due to less than optimal shifting.  As you stated, the FD is a "little harder" to tune.  That is an understatement in my book.  They just doesn't work as well as doubles.  be it compacts or std cranks. 

If a rider needs lower gears than a std crank, I would always suggest a compact and then higher cassettes.  A 34/27 is nearly the same gear as a 30/25

btw, your chart is off.  how is a 30/25 faster than a 34/25?

2008-08-08 10:32 AM
in reply to: #1589656

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Master
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
Thanks, fixed.. I have a triple and I spent quite a while tuning it when I put on in a new cable.. but now I get set it in about 5 minutes (and have to this weekend due to the new cable stretch ) .. btw I am not calling out any person.. just the general sentiment.. and as a side ref. I just did an 8 mile 3600 ft climb with a triple.. holding about a 65-70 cadence and staying complete aerobic.. legs felt fresh at the end and I didnt cross into zones I shouldn't have (just took it easy)


Edited by slake707 2008-08-08 10:41 AM
2008-08-08 10:40 AM
in reply to: #1589656

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Master
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

I've got a triple and I need the small (30T) ring quite a lot when I'm doing bike races because I tend to choose courses that are very hilly (gradients up to 33%).  For flat/rolling courses though I never use the small ring and if I was just to concentrate on triathlons I could quite easily get away with a double.

The important question is how often do you use the inner ring on your current bike.  If you're using it frequently then you'll suffer without it.  If you only use it occasionally then you can probably get away without such low gearing.

2008-08-08 2:41 PM
in reply to: #1589656

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
no one has brought up terrain. Sure, if you live in Ohio (yes, I know that there are some hills, particularly southern ohio), you don't need the little gear, but if you live in the mountains , you may need a 39/27 to get up some stuff...or to ride up the 20+ mile hills even if you could have done the first 5 miles in your middle ring.

Triples are not evil.


2008-08-08 2:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

Guys,

I don't use the small front ring very often, but it sure is nice when you need it. It looks like I can go with a compact double 50 / 34 then do a 12 / 27 rear to get really close to my granny gear combo. I also don't like the triple just because of the clumsy shiftiting of the front rings.

chevy57

2008-08-08 2:53 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

Remember, there is also an 11-28 SRAM cassette that you can get. I just had that put on my new tri bike and while I rarely have to use the 28, it sure is nice on those steep hills, and I still have the 11 to use on the downhills....

BTW, my first bike had a triple and I hated it because I was constantly dropping the chain. I know I was new to biking and learning about shifting, but it got ridiculous.... When I went to a double 95% of my chain dropping went away...

2008-08-08 2:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
chevy57 - 2008-08-08 8:42 PM

Guys,

I also don't like the triple just because of the clumsy shiftiting of the front rings.

chevy57

Yeah that's one of the things I hate about triples.  Apparently Shimano triples have notoriously unreliable shifting.

2008-08-08 3:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

JohnnyKay - 2008-08-08 9:54 AM I would definitely see if the LBS will swap the double that comes on the bike for a comparable compact.  If you find yourself using the 30, then you will likely appreciate the gearing on something like a 50/34 up front.

x2.

I switched my tri bike to a 50/34 front and 11-23t rear and could not be happier.  I liked it so much I converted my road bike as well.  I have all the top end speed I need and plenty of climbing gears too.  I don't think you can beat this combo if you ride hills in your area.

2008-08-08 3:10 PM
in reply to: #1590833

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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
chevy57 - 2008-08-08 3:42 PM

Guys,

I don't use the small front ring very often, but it sure is nice when you need it. It looks like I can go with a compact double 50 / 34 then do a 12 / 27 rear to get really close to my granny gear combo. I also don't like the triple just because of the clumsy shiftiting of the front rings.

chevy57

That's what I run on hillier courses and it sure is nice to have.  Maybe the day will come when I'm stronger on the hills and won't need that gearing.  It's easy enough to swap out the rear gears if so.  In fact, I have a pancake flat race coming up this weekend and put  a 12/23 on the rear.



2008-08-08 4:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
tridantri - 2008-08-08 1:53 PM
chevy57 - 2008-08-08 8:42 PM

Guys,

I also don't like the triple just because of the clumsy shiftiting of the front rings.

chevy57

Yeah that's one of the things I hate about triples.  Apparently Shimano triples have notoriously unreliable shifting.

fwiw, I've used shimano sora components w/ a triple chainring for years, find myself in the granny gear a lot since we live in the foothills and there is no such thing as flat, and I've never had a problem.  

2008-08-08 4:37 PM
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Edited by PennState 2008-08-08 4:39 PM
2008-08-08 6:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
a compact should be more than enough, as the poster ahead of me said, if you live in rolling areas, a strong cyclist will be fine on a double, while others may like a compact.

i live in ohio, race rolling courses, and am usually at the front on the bike (24-25mph is the norm for me).

i ride a 39/53 up front with a 12x25 cassette and am never looking for gears, in most races i never leave the big ring, and only on some climbs do i need to shift into the smaller one.
2008-08-08 6:46 PM
in reply to: #1589656

Master
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
I would go with the compact. I think it's the best choice for most AG triathletes regardless of terrain. The downside to a triple is that cross chaining is a bigger issue, especially with a 10-speed cassette.

FWIW, I used a 50/34 with a 12-25 for a 5:38 ride at Lake Placid (PB on the marathon) this year, and a 50/34 with a 12-21 for a 5:17 at Florida last year.

The cadence you prefer riding at can/will have some bearing in what your gear choices will be. I prefer racing at a high cadence (100-110 rpm's). Some would say that's excessively high, but it's what works for me. If you prefer riding in the low 80's you may need to reconsider your top end gearing.

scott
2008-08-08 6:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
PennState - 2008-08-08 5:37 PM

Just thought I would throw in some basics in case anybody is new to all this.:

1. Front Gearing... Standard is often a double ring with 53 teeth on the big ring, 39 teeth on the small ring (53/39)

2. A compact front implies some changes in the rings. Less teeth in front means easier to peddle... like uphill. 50-53/34 is a common ratio. If you bike on big hills you might like this.

3. A triple in front allows another even smaller ring in front to make for even easier gearing. A lot of cyclists are snobish against triples in front, but there was a great thread on ST before Lake Placid by a guy named Paul Devashi about this. He is a usual Kona qualifier and he was saying that at least half the field should be using a triple at Lake Placid.... especially if you are riding over 6.5 hours for the bike (which is more than 1/2 the field at LP).
My tri bike has a 53/39 in front and I have enough gearing for anything in Central PA. My road bike has a triple. I don't use the smallest front ring much, but I don't feel dumb for having it.

4. Gearing in the rear cassette. less teeth makes for a HARDER gear... ie; faster. 11-28 is the usual range that the cassettes will be made. Common combos: 11-23  12-25   12-27    . A top cyclist like Rick (Daremo) will use an 11-23 (I think?). I use a 12-25. 12-27 is a very common and good choice as well.

Again, refering to that ST thread, Paul said (and I agree) that most people are improperly geared... that is they ride a 12-25, when they SHOULD ride a 12-27. Here was his post:

  • 5:30 or less 39x25
  • 5:40 or less 39x27
  • 6:00 or less 34x25
  • >6:00 34x27
  • >6:30 GET A TRIPLE

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1849439;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Yet many people ride a 12-25 in back and a 39 small ring in front (as I do, but I did ride in the 5:30s at Lake Placid), and they should be riding much easier gearing.

Most of you know more than I do on this, I just am helping newbies

 THANK YOU, FRED!  I just learned a TON, as I often do from you.  Much appreciated.



2008-08-08 7:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
PennState - 2008-08-08 6:37 PM

...a guy named Paul Devashi

It's actually Devashish Paul or Dev Paul; beyond that, great post, I'm sure it will prove to be very useful to anyone who isn't a bike tech weenie (yet)

BTW, I belive that Rich Strauss is right when he says that 99% of triathletes should be running a compact.

Shane

2008-08-08 8:24 PM
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2008-08-08 8:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?

The thought is that it will allow higher cadences and easier gearing for terrain changes.

At LP I did run an 11-23 with a 53/39 and I purposefully climbed most of the hills there in the 39/23 and had no problem spinning around 80 cadence up most of them, if not a little higher.  I was usually in the 10 - 13 mph range climbing there.  But I was also never passed and most people were rolling along around 8 mph or so with probably a 27.

Even pro cyclists will run a 39 up front with an 11-25 for some of the Alpine stages in the Tour.  There's nothing wrong with running lower gear inches!  I simply choose not to and do not get any long/steep enough to warrant running anything easier than a 23.  But your mileage/results may vary!

2008-08-08 8:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike gearing Double, Triple or Compact Double?
You can compare gear inches by using one of the many on line calculators. To see what you have and how different options you are considering compare.I had a triple with 12-25 and when I bought some new bikes I went with compact 50-34 with 12-27 and gear inches were almost the same on the easiest gears.I have 4 different cassettes and swap them for different races based on terrain.I had nothing but trouble on my triple as the chain dropped frequently. I know many don't have the issues I had, but I brought my bike to many folks and no one was able to get it so it didn't drop. Now I'm a big fan of compacts and have it on all my bikes.What type of gearing you need really depends on your strength as a cyclist. Riding proper gearing makes it easier to do your best.
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