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My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
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7:00/mile or less (do you really belong on "beginner" triathlete.com?)15 Votes - [23.44%]
8:00/mile6 Votes - [9.38%]
8:30/mile4 Votes - [6.25%]
8:45/mile3 Votes - [4.69%]
9:00/mile4 Votes - [6.25%]
9:30/mile3 Votes - [4.69%]
10:00/mile14 Votes - [21.88%]
10:30/mile2 Votes - [3.12%]
11:00/mile0 Votes - [0%]
11:30/mile0 Votes - [0%]
12:00/mile1 Votes - [1.56%]
12:30/mile1 Votes - [1.56%]
13:00/mile1 Votes - [1.56%]
13:30/mile0 Votes - [0%]
14:00/mile or more0 Votes - [0%]
I've never used a HR monitor7 Votes - [10.94%]
I tried the HR monitor but chucked it for various reasons2 Votes - [3.12%]
My HR monitor is broken1 Votes - [1.56%]
No hablo ingles0 Votes - [0%]

2005-02-06 6:27 PM

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Veteran
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Richmond, VA
Subject: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...

Ok, I'm getting frustrated by my HR monitor.  I've read enough and I'm trying to believe it.  I need some data from those who've used the damn things for a while to validate that the idea of running SLOWER will eventually make you BETTER.

Do me the favor of voting here, and then if you feel like it: post to let me know your personal experience to demonstrate how your performance has developed through the use of your HR monitor.

...and please don't flame me for not providing 8:36.7/mile as an option... pick the closest response, OK?



Edited by fraggle 2005-02-06 6:28 PM


2005-02-06 7:28 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...

I recently started using a hrm and the number I keep track of is my 70% of max (which works out to 148 for me) for the majority of my runs.  I've put lots of time in on the treadmill this winter and I need to stay at about 4.6 mph (almost 13 minute miles) to be able to maintain that hr over distances of more than 1.5 miles.  If I allow myself to go at 80% my pace would be closer to 10:20 minute miles, but I bonk after about 2.5 miles.  By the way, I'm still really slow, but yesterday I ran 8 miles.  I never, ever imagined that I'd be able to go that far!  I've become a big fan of the HRM.

Debi

2005-02-06 7:33 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...

8- 8:30 a mile here...can do that for 6-8 miles, before start to suck wind...

d

2005-02-06 7:54 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
I am about a 10min pace at this time with regrard to 80% max HR..
2005-02-06 9:06 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
I've spent a lot of the off-season running easy at or below 140 BPM. I've never been tested for my max HR, it is just the formula Polar uses. I understand there are flaws in that methodology.

This last summer I was married to a 27:30 5K race. Every race I finished in 27:30ish. I started using my HRM and this fall I ran a 5K in 25:51 in horible, humid conditions. I just did a duathlon and my first 5K pace was 8:28/mi (I was trying to run smart since I knew I had a bike and second run ahead of me) and my second run was at an 8:18/mi pace. So I feel like running slower to run faster has worked for me.

I'm now including some speedwork in my workouts and we'll see what happens next. Good luck!
2005-02-07 7:51 AM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...

I did a 15k over the summer, averaged 8:02/mi, and heart rate averaged right around 82% of max.  My guess is my pace is a little faster, due to race conditions (warm day, very hilly course).

Chris



2005-02-07 8:50 AM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
How did you determine your max HR to begin with?
What I have been working with is a percentage of Lactate Threshold rather than a percentage of max. I took my average HR from a 8k time trial (run as hard as I can go for that distance) and use that as a dividing line into the "hard stuff"  so with a LTr of 172 I use a 80% of that figure to set my zone 1 stuff at a HR of  140 or less (because it's a nice round number)

 Right now I am not doing much speed work, the few tempo runs I am doing show no decrease in speed. I have not been working on any hard intervals until I exit my marathon training. I do suspect that when I start more serious speed work that I will get faster quickly because my body will be able to handle the wear and tear because I have put in a lot of base.
2005-02-07 10:55 AM
in reply to: #113721

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...

ride_like_u_stole_it - 2005-02-07  8:50 AM

 

How did you determine your max HR to begin with?

1) Age - 220 = 185

2) Polar fit test, predicted MHR = 179

3) 20 minute run with increasing pace every 2:00, puked at minute 18 with HR Max 178.  Pace at time 5 SBP (seconds before puke) was 7:30.

[I did a local 8k at about 8:20 pace, but that was before monitor.

So, I use the median: 179 as my predicted HRMax

My RHR is 50

60% is thus

179*.6 = 108 (Barely walking)

(179-50)*.6 + 50 = 128 (Walking briskly.)

So, I shoot for 70-80%MHR on my long runs, which puts me at (using the lower equation) 140-150/min.  I've chosen 70-80% because, by god, I am NOT going to walk for 8 miles (which is what I'd have to do to get HR<70%) and call that my weekly long "run". 

I've noone in town to pay to do a lactate threshold test, and that seems a bit overkill for an age group mid- to back- packer.  I see your less expensive and non-invasive estimate of the LT, and I may try that duing my next 10k.

 

[whine on]At the end of last year, I was logging 8:30-9:30 miles in all of my workouts, even the "long" ones of 5-8 miles.  Now that I've been given a HR monitor and am trying to understand the science, I've been cajoled by what I've read into running 11-12min/mile on my long runs.

I'll admit that my "long runs" to date have been less than 10 miles, which is pretty "short" so it's likely that I'd not be able to (today) do a 10, 15, or 20 miler at the faster pace I was chucking out last year; however, I did go from the freaking couch to 9:30 x 8 miles in 8 months, what's to say I couldn't keep up that pace and eventually with effort and training at 85-95% HRMax get to 10-20 miles?  I'm afraid that training to run 12 minute miles for long distances will only make me an accomplished slow runner.  I know this topic has been beaten to death on this forum, and I appreciate the humoring.[whine off]

2005-02-07 12:10 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
fraggle –

Can we whine in harmony?

I spent this past weekend with the same questions you have.

I did some in-line skating last summer, but hadn’t run in years. Then in early fall I trained without knowing anything about heartrates and after following the last 4 weeks of a 10K plan, I ran a 10K charity run at slightly less than 10 minutes per mile.

Then I got a heart rate monitor. I used the formulas (at least 4 different ones) and did some field testing and all the methods set my zones almost identically. My max hr is 185 (running), so I’ve been running on a treadmill for the past three months at 70% or around 130. I started walking fast and worked up to running with a very short stride in order to keeep my heart rate down.

Last Friday, I got outside and ran a 5K. The run took 36 minutes and I was VERY sore on Saturday.

Even at 12 minute miles, my heartrate kept shooting up to 165 – 170. It would have taken me an hour to run the 5k at 130 bpm. I felt worse than I did after running the 10K in October.

So I’m trying to figure out what to change, because what I’m doing doesn’t seem to be accomplishing anything. I just don't know if I should fault the method or the way I'm using the method.
2005-02-07 1:33 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
I can only reply vagualy to this. I used to run 5 times a week in the military and never saw a 2 mile run-time below 14:30. I can tell you I was definitely running at 80% of my max on these runs. I then went to a unit where I could train on my own. I lowered my time to 13 minutes for 2 miles by doing absolutely zero hard runs. I did a few short jogs but mainly fast walks with a pack. I would say most of the time my HR would be considerably less than on a run. Was it the slower pace/lower HR or the 75 pounds I was packing in my ruck that made me faster who knows. All I know is I got faster with virtually no running. Alot fast at that. I dropped about 2 minutes off my previous run-time 6 months earlier.
2005-02-07 2:09 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
I thought that the HR thing was for periodic...periodi...er...that type of training where you've got x amount of time where you just work on cardio fitness, your ability to run for longer periods of time without fatigue and injury; then you've got x amount of time where you build in speed work, hills, whatever plus keep your LSD run; then you've got actual race prep where you're working pretty hard / fast because youv'e got the base built and you're not as apt to hurt yourself. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on that, because I am rather confused by the whole thing.

I could be utterly wrong, but I don't see how anybody could possibly run fast during a race if you never trained yourself to run fast in training. But then I don't wear a HRM, and I don't intend to start, and I've only been running for about 6.5 months, and I'm a slow runner yet. I do 3x/week runs - one short with speed work, one medium with speed or hills (er, simulated treadmill hills) , and one long run at a comfortable, sustainable pace. I'm seeing a lot of improvement in my cardio fitness, my running ability, and my recovery time doing it this way, but I haven't been doing it long and I've not tried a 5k at race pace to see if I've really improved over my last 5k.


2005-02-07 2:38 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...

I don't know if "better" is the correct word in your original post.  My understanding is that over time, as your fitness level increases, you will have to work harder (run faster) to maintain the same HR.

I am no expert but my experience has been that this is true.  I started around Thanksgiving '04 using my monitor and in the past couple of weeks have noticed that it is more difficult to sta in the range I want to.  For me, I use 75% of max which is around 157.  I run and do whatever I have to to stay below that number.  On hills iam probably taking 6 inch steps in order to do this.  On downhills I try to relax and let gravity pull me down the hill while not letting my feet get ahead of me.  However, here's the cool part, when I settle in to my "normal pace", my comfort zone, it is TOO SLOW.  I'll look at my monitor and it has droped to 143 or 145 so I have to pick up the pace to get back on that 75% number I want.

I haven't raced yet but this Saturday is a flat, fast 10k and I'll see what happens (by feel, no monitor).

2005-02-07 3:01 PM
in reply to: #113559

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2005-02-07 4:40 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
Define "gradually".
2005-02-07 6:08 PM
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2005-02-07 7:14 PM
in reply to: #113559

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
around 9:30 min/mile and improving........that is a rough guess but I ran 15 miles at a HR which averaged 155 in 2:25.....3 months ago it was around 3 hrs for the same distance at a much higher HR! I hope to be able to easily break 1:50 for the Half Marathon in New Orleans at the end of the month. Not fast but fast enough for me thanks

read this link and see how to improve things..http://www.ffh.us/cn/hadd.htm....this is the most concise write up of why getting your base training is very very important... and how to elevate your lactate, it works period.

point to note, the author stresses it is just the beginning, once you have got as many slow miles in to raise your threshold it will then be time to work on the speed aspect........now me being a relative beginner at distance running I'm not going to worry about speed training and use races throughout the year as my speed work and just concentrate on volume.

thanks

Kevin


2005-02-07 7:34 PM
in reply to: #113837

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Subject: RE: My Running Pace at 80%HR Max is...
For what it's worth, I've been using a HRM for a few years now. I had a zone 1 pace of 11:00min/mile while doing my long runs for my first marathon trng (2003). My finish time for that marathon was 4:16. So, running slow (ie z1/z2) does make you better. This is probably the biggest/most common mistake "newbies" make...training too fast in their base period. 99% of coaches will attest to that.
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