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2008-08-16 1:40 PM

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Subject: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

Okay so this may not be the smartest thing in the world to do, but I'm doing it regardless so anybody who has mountain bike and off-road/Xterra experience, please chime in:  I have my first X-terra in one week and I am just picking up my mountain bike this Tuesday and will only be able to get in one, maybe two rides.  Come race day should I just try and hammer the swim and the run and take it super-conservative on the bike?  I've done plenty of Sprints an Olympic and HIM already this season so my fitness is there, just not my off-road experience. 

I should also mention this X-terra is fairly tame as far as they go - roots and hills will be my major obstacles on groomed trails.  No boulders, creeks, or 1,000 foot drops off the side of a mountain.  Regardless, I'm thinking I should just ride to the extreme right and take it easy, or perhaps should I try and draft off someone who seemes seasoned and react the same way they do?

Lastly, where the heck do you put a water bottle on a mountaink bike? 



Edited by Dream Chaser 2008-08-16 1:41 PM


2008-08-16 2:07 PM
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2008-08-16 2:57 PM
in reply to: #1607932

Elite
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Tucson, AZ
Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

On the bike, go as hard as you can while still staying in control. If you need to slow down, then do so. The biggest difference between road and mountain is body English. Over rocks, roots, etc, stand up off the seat and have your pedals at 9 and 3. Let the bike rock underneath you and do most of the work. If you sit down over stuff, you'll feel a much harsher ride. If you have a chance, go somewhere like a park and ride off of curbs, stairs, etc to learn before the race. If it's steep and downhill in spots, get your weight back and over the rear wheel. But the best bet is get off and walk. Better to walk the section than to try to ride and crash.

Be sure to look where you want to go. Don't look at the rock, root, etc. Look ahead of it where you want the bike to be. Look down the trail for what's coming up next. Most newbies watch directly in front of the front wheel, which limits your reaction time. This is also why you won't be able to draft and watch someone else...you'll be too busy watching the trail for where you need to go.

Good luck, and welcome to XTERRA!

2008-08-16 3:37 PM
in reply to: #1607932


4

Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
Great! You won't regret it. I did the exact same thing earlier this summer and had a blast. I loved it so much that I ended up doing another xterra 2 weeks after my HIM in June. Do whatever you need to to get through the bike...take it a little slower, or walk. Previous poster had lots of great mtn. biking advice. It's quite a bit different than road racing because you never get a break. You'll really feel a sense of accomplishment after completing one! Go get 'em.
2008-08-16 5:16 PM
in reply to: #1607932

Expert
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Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
Just did one this morning, only crashed twice My mtb skills stink, but here is what I know caused me problems: 1) learn how to shift gears quickly, and know which lever is which. Sounds like a duh, but the terrain on trails changes quickly and you forget. 2) if you don't feel comfortable on a fast downhill, slow down. Going fast, then braking will almost certainly dump you (crash #1). 3) don't panic if someone is behind you trying to pass, and there's no room. You paid your entry fee, you have a right to your space, move to the right when space is available. 4) since your new to mtb, don't use clipless pedal, or toe clips. You don't need to worry about unclipping, and it will be easier to jump off the bike when you hit a hill that stops you in your tracks. 5) have fun, these races are a blast, expect to be more tired coming off the bike than you're use to.
2008-08-16 6:55 PM
in reply to: #1607932

Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
Really good advice everyone.  Exactly the stuff I was looking for.  Thank You!


2008-08-17 12:03 AM
in reply to: #1607932

New user
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Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

I've just started mountain biking myself, and I'll try to pass on some advice my friends have given me this summer.  If I'm remembering any of this stuff incorrectly, someone please correct me.

 When you're climbing, stay in the saddle but shift your weight forward.  Mountain bikes aren't road bikes, and on loose dirt there's a lot less traction, so you need to keep weight on the rear wheel.

When you're climbing and have obstacles to get over (roots, rain bars, etc.), try to pop a wheelie over them, but at the same time quickly shift your weight forward, mainly using your hips, so you don't go over backwards.  Be in the lowest gear you can so you've got the torque to get over the obstacle.

When you're going downhill, remember that the front wheel will roll over almost anything.  The catch is, your weight needs to be shifted back, and you can't be on the front brake.  If you're using the brakes on the downhill, you want to mainly be using the rear, and feather the front.  Release the front as you go over the bumps, and get onto it lightly and gradually afterwards.

Regardless of what kind of bike you're on, the best suspension you've got is your own body.  Use your arms and legs to soak up the bumps.

Look ahead at where you want to go.  Don't stare at your front tire, watch the trail up ahead.  Look where you want to go, and you'll probably go there.

Keep your momentum up as much as you can.  It'll help you get over the obstacles, and it'll help you when you get to the hills.

That's all I can remember at the moment.  Hopefully I'm remembering everything correctly, since it's been a few weeks since I was on the trails, and hopefully it'll help you out a bit.

Steve

2008-08-17 10:02 AM
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2008-08-17 2:32 PM
in reply to: #1607932

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Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

Thanks for the correction.  That sounds a bit more like what my friends told me.  I guess I shouldn't try to pass on advice when I'm up that late.  One thing I was told to do is to find a short, steep hill and practice braking going down it, including going as slow as possible to learn how much I can use the brakes without locking up the wheels.  Probably good advice, for me at least, since I've had a couple of close calls locking the rear wheel on steeper sections. 

Oh, and there's another great  benefit to looking ahead rather than down.  It's a pretty safe bet that even the worst mountain bike trail is more beautiful than your front tire.

 Steve



Edited by AccidentalChef 2008-08-17 2:34 PM
2008-08-17 8:42 PM
in reply to: #1607932

Elite
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Whispering Pines, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

My first tri was the XTerra Offroad Tri @ Ft. Yargo in GA.

The bike was the FUNNEST part of the tri. I had never done ANY kind of off road riding and didn't know what to expect.

I would suggest a camelbak for hydration. I had a water bottle and to use it, i had to pretty much slow down to a crawl or risk running into a tree.

speaking of trees, watch out for them! they like to pop up around corners or plant themselves in the middle of a trail! and they hit hard!

also watch out when you're taking turns! the ground gets loose and when you try to turn, your wheels can slip and you could run into trees or run off the road!

practice jumping off your bike going up hills! a few times, i tried going up hills and had to jump off as i was going backwards! could have been ugly!

go as hard as you can, but go as safe as you can. trees can really sneak up on you and they're looking for a TKO.

good luck and really have fun! like i said, the off road bike was the funnest part of it for me. in fact, i think i have never had as much fun on a road as i have had OFF ROAD!

 

2008-08-18 8:00 AM
in reply to: #1607932

Master
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Winder, GA
Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

I've only done one Xterra race but it was probably one of the most fun races I've ever done.

I only have one other piece of advice that I don't think has been covered and it has to do with roots. Try to hit roots straight on at a perpendicular angle. You'll roll over them if you don't stop pedalling. (usually means standing if you're on a hardtail) If you try to avoid roots, especially big ones, it's more likely that the bike will slip out from under you as the tires slip on the roots. We have BIG roots on the trails I ride in GA and this has happen to me a few times.

Good luck at your race and have fun!



2008-08-18 12:07 PM
in reply to: #1607932

Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

Shift my weight to the back when going down a steep hill, practice hills and using the front brake, hit roots at a 90 degree angle, look forward not down, mtb slicks ... all great stuff I'm going to do this week and then it's Baptism By Fire on Sunday  

Thanks again everyone. 

2008-08-19 7:14 AM
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2008-08-19 7:28 AM
in reply to: #1607932

Master
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The Redlands, FL
Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

Hey Dream Chaser...!!!

I did mountain bike, Adveture Races and Off Road Triathlons for many years...and....I really recommend to you to go easy on the bike cuz lack of experience in off-road...and take advantage in your swim and run....we don't want that you get hurt in the bike course...
And if you have the chace to ride the bike course at least 1 or 2 times before the Race it would be great to see how difficult is and to be familiar with the bike course...
About the water bottles....No Way...When you do mountain bike you use CamelBack...free hands....LOL
Good Luck!!!!


Edited by velorider62 2008-08-19 7:30 AM
2008-08-19 8:33 AM
in reply to: #1607932

Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

Ok, camelback and pre-ride the course.  Well the camelbacks are expensive, but I can probably use it on Long Runs later this year, too.  And I can't pre-ride the course because it's on private owned land (and they state on the website do not pre-ride the course or you will be prosecuted) but they are having a clinic the day prior where an X-terra winner is going to slowly pre-ride the course with us and give out pointers ...so I will preview the course, but no so much pre-race it. 

Shoot, you guys are getting me a little nervous...

2008-08-19 11:45 AM
in reply to: #1607932

Elite
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Tucson, AZ
Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
Dream Chaser - 2008-08-16 10:40 AM

I should also mention this X-terra is fairly tame as far as they go - roots and hills will be my major obstacles on groomed trails.  No boulders, creeks, or 1,000 foot drops off the side of a mountain. 

Just wanted to mention that for XTERRAs, you gotta gauge who you're hearing info from on the course. What is "easy" and "non-technical" to an experienced mountain biker can be difficult for a newbie. It goes back to that body English thing. You and the bike need to mesh well in order to get through the course and that takes time and learning.

I've only seen the SW series courses, but I'd rank all of them as solid intermediate trails with a few advanced areas. They definitely aren't trails to learn to ride on. Snow Valley is a good example. The website for that race still says "great course for roadies wanting to tri somethine new this summer! Bike course is not too technical but has lots of hills..." Well, the singletrack they added this year was ridden by Conrad Stoltz (XTERRA world champion) and he rode it the day before and said it was too technical for the race, so they took it out. The rest of the trail was very rocky with lots of sandy sections and the "hills" went straight down the mountain in deep sand. I'm an advanced rider and had to pull out all the stops to make it down. Several newbies crashed hard and DNFed.

If you get out there and find the course to be like that, just get off and walk. You want to survive and get through the course with your collarbone intact. It will definitely be a learning experience. Don't get discouraged if you're hiking your bike a lot. Keep practicing and working at it after the race and next time you'll see a great improvement.

And remember to have fun out there!



2008-08-19 11:59 AM
in reply to: #1607932

Expert
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Traverse Cityish
Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
If it's your first and the rest of your fitness is good, I'd skip all other workouts besides the bike. Find the more technical local trails and ride them as much as you possibly can. You won't lose your run or swim fitness in a week, but you can make huge improvements in your bike handling which will help the most.

As mentioned, look at the line you want to take, not the objects that will cause you to crash, the rest will come with time in the saddle. As for the water bottle, they are hard to drink from while hammering on single track. If you have a camelback, use it for your first or slow down big time while drinking.

Oh, one last thing, this time of your the trails can get pretty sandy in some regions. To get through sand, weight back a bit in the saddle, look straight ahead and just keep pedaling. If you get too much weight over the front of the bike you will get sloppy.

Most importantly, have fun!

2008-08-19 12:00 PM
in reply to: #1607932

Veteran
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Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

I have completed my 1st Xterra this year also! All the above advice is dead on!!

 If you can even if its the day before the race ride a little bit of the course. The more you can be familiar with the course the better off you will be. Also, remember what you are there for! HAVE FUN!! Do not expect do do the mileage on road bike pace. I would tape a Gu to your tubeor handelbar, so you can rip it off for nutrition during the race. This way your are not taking two hands off the bars to open the GU.

 Have fun and Good luck!! Make sure to do a race report!

2008-08-19 12:14 PM
in reply to: #1612964

Master
2073
20002525
The Redlands, FL
Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
Dream Chaser - 2008-08-19 9:33 AM

Ok, camelback and pre-ride the course.  Well the camelbacks are expensive, but I can probably use it on Long Runs later this year, too.  And I can't pre-ride the course because it's on private owned land (and they state on the website do not pre-ride the course or you will be prosecuted) but they are having a clinic the day prior where an X-terra winner is going to slowly pre-ride the course with us and give out pointers ...so I will preview the course, but no so much pre-race it. 

Shoot, you guys are getting me a little nervous...

You can find not expensive Camelback in Sale...and....I use it in my regular bike rides trainings....I use a very cheap one "Next" that I got in WalMart...the only thing that I did it...was to replace the bite valve...for one better...a Camelback Big Bite...I know you don't have time to order online...but  www.performancebike.com and www.nashbar.com have excellent prices too....

2008-08-21 8:45 AM
in reply to: #1607932

Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

Just wanted to thank everyone for some excellent advice.  I got some real quality time in the trails yesterday, averaged a decent pace, tried one advanced course (called "the rollercoaster" - wow was that scary as it was fun) did my first endo (caught a stump) and got my first official mtb wound.  Shedding blood in the forest is the initiation, right? 

The best tips so far that have helped me is *looking forward and not down, and keeping a line ahead of me as where I want to go.  It'd be so easy to focus on my front wheel and all the crap I'm about to roll over, but it doesn't help me to do that cause then I can't keep a good speed and safely anticipate and negotiate the trail ahead.  *Keeping my pedals at 3 and 6 O'clock is something I really have to work on.  When I'm on my road bike coasting it's fine; but when in the woods with a million stumps and roots it's not fun to coast around a corner and catch my pedal on a stump and feel my back come to a complete STOP and feel my back tire atop my head. *As Nelg-Glen pointed out, there is lots of sand on my course right now, and sand always seems to be at the bottom of a steep desent - how scary and convenient!! Pedalling at a high cadence through it and shifting my weight back helps me keep control. 

*Another tip I'd like to add is, don't wear a sleeveless shirt on a tight, single track course!!  I have many scrapes on both arms from friendly oaks and pine trees. 

Thanks again everyone and I'll post a RR Monday morning. 

2008-08-21 8:47 AM
in reply to: #1607932

Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
p.s. I bent the outer protector-thing on my crank pretty bad.  Should I just bend it back?  Take it off?  Get another one?  It rattles when I pedal. 


2008-08-21 9:03 AM
in reply to: #1618251

Master
1888
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Winder, GA
Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

Dream Chaser - 2008-08-21 9:47 AM p.s. I bent the outer protector-thing on my crank pretty bad.  Should I just bend it back?  Take it off?  Get another one?  It rattles when I pedal. 

Is it plastic? If so, definitely take it off. There should be screws that you can use to take it off instead of just breaking it off.

Oh, and scratches and blood are a regular thing for me with mountain biking. If I come home having not fallen and no blood, it's definitely a cause for celebration.

2008-08-25 10:36 AM
in reply to: #1607932

Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice

Despite all the great advice, limited amount of practice, and a clinic the day before I made it through 95% of the bike leg just fine.  With about 2/10ths of a mile left though I hit something (a ditch, stump) and got thrown over the bike and landed square on my shoulder - hard.  I ended up with a Grade I shoulder separation.  I also got stung twice in the butt by a wasp.  Again, thanks for all the advice, but I am going to stick to road triathlons - at least for racing.  I'll probably go back to riding in the woods for fun; but I am not going to attempt racing in the woods again.  It's just not for me.

Here's the race report for anyone interested.   http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=129818&posts=1&start=1

2008-08-25 11:58 AM
in reply to: #1625586

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Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
Dream Chaser - 2008-08-25 11:36 AM

Despite all the great advice, limited amount of practice, and a clinic the day before I made it through 95% of the bike leg just fine. With about 2/10ths of a mile left though I hit something (a ditch, stump) and got thrown over the bike and landed square on my shoulder - hard. I ended up with a Grade I shoulder separation. I also got stung twice in the butt by a wasp. Again, thanks for all the advice, but I am going to stick to road triathlons - at least for racing. I'll probably go back to riding in the woods for fun; but I am not going to attempt racing in the woods again. It's just not for me.

Here's the race report for anyone interested. http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=129818&posts=1&start=1



Wow, you got a couple good bumps, and the shoulder injury is the real initiation, not the blood. If you talk to avid mountain bikers who have been at it for a couple years, it's pretty much the norm to get a separation, broken clavicle, rotator cuff injury, etc.

Heal up quick and don't write off racing off road totally. Just get back on that horse, get some more time under your belt and see what happens.

So did they at least give you some good meds? BTW, that lump that you'll probably get on your shoulder is a badge of honor!

Edited by Nelg 2008-08-25 12:01 PM
2008-08-25 1:30 PM
in reply to: #1625914

Subject: RE: Xterra - off-road triathlon Advice
Nelg - 2008-08-25 12:58 PM
Dream Chaser - 2008-08-25 11:36 AM

Despite all the great advice, limited amount of practice, and a clinic the day before I made it through 95% of the bike leg just fine. With about 2/10ths of a mile left though I hit something (a ditch, stump) and got thrown over the bike and landed square on my shoulder - hard. I ended up with a Grade I shoulder separation. I also got stung twice in the butt by a wasp. Again, thanks for all the advice, but I am going to stick to road triathlons - at least for racing. I'll probably go back to riding in the woods for fun; but I am not going to attempt racing in the woods again. It's just not for me.

Here's the race report for anyone interested. http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=129818&posts=1&start=1

Wow, you got a couple good bumps, and the shoulder injury is the real initiation, not the blood. If you talk to avid mountain bikers who have been at it for a couple years, it's pretty much the norm to get a separation, broken clavicle, rotator cuff injury, etc. Heal up quick and don't write off racing off road totally. Just get back on that horse, get some more time under your belt and see what happens. So did they at least give you some good meds? BTW, that lump that you'll probably get on your shoulder is a badge of honor!

Glen, with all due respect - and I genuinely mean that - but this is CRAZY!!  If this is the norm (separation, broken clavicle, rotator cuff injury, etc. , I don't want to be a part of it!  I do plan to "recreationally" ride in the woods, but I just think it's too dangerouse to race  in the woods.  Swimming in a lake is great; running off-road is even fine; but barrelling through the woods full speed is just not for me. 

 

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