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2008-09-24 4:59 PM

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Subject: Run faster vs. Run longer

Ok Ok ...I realize that the real answer is both.   I am trying to get ready for my first 5k which is 4 weeks from this Sunday.  Within the last week I have managed to increase my time and distance running to where I can run the whole 3.1 miles without stopping. 

 I had anticipated that it would take me much longer to get to this point figuring that the first time I ran the whole distance would be a week or so before the race. 

Now I have some extra weeks to play with and was wondering whether I should:

1.) continue to run 3-3.5 miles but try to increase my speed

2.) whether I should try to push the distance to 4-5 miles a run 

Thanks all!



Edited by kromanowski 2008-09-24 4:59 PM


2008-09-24 5:03 PM
in reply to: #1694245

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

Early in your running career the answer is definitely run longer at an easier pace.

Really...you want the good aerobic base first before you put in speed work.  If you try to put in speed work before your legs are ready you will just get hurt.

Lots and lots of easy running will bring you mucho improvement at this point!

2008-09-24 5:05 PM
in reply to: #1694245

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

You need to increase your distance. If you are just to the point that you can run your planned race distance doing any type of quality or speedwork should be but a wee sparkle in your eye. It obv varies from person to person, but I would not start doing any quality type workouts until I could run 5/6 miles comfortably with out stopping if 5k was what I planned to race.

2008-09-24 5:59 PM
in reply to: #1694245

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
I found that as my runs got longer, the shorter ones naturally got faster.
2008-09-24 6:02 PM
in reply to: #1694262

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
jldicarlo - 2008-09-24 5:03 PM

Early in your running career the answer is definitely run longer at an easier pace.

Really...you want the good aerobic base first before you put in speed work.  If you try to put in speed work before your legs are ready you will just get hurt.

Lots and lots of easy running will bring you mucho improvement at this point!

Ditto!!  I learned the hard way

2008-09-24 6:08 PM
in reply to: #1694359

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
LittleCat - 2008-09-24 5:59 PM

I found that as my runs got longer, the shorter ones naturally got faster.


I find there is alot of truth to that. My friend who been training for nothing but 100 milers pred at the 5k after she did 3 100 milers that year.

I would work on the distance. Being able to run a 5k is great but I would work on increasing the distance for several reasons.

1) You will probably want to run a 10k someday.

2) if your doing tris you will want to be in a good enough shape to run the 5k pretty fast after swimming and biking.

3) running is just plan cool and you should do it as often as you can.

4) remember the slower you finish your first 5k means more Prs for you in the future.

I am a big fan of running atleast 2 tempo type runs a week and a lsd (long slow distance) once a week. I would run one at 2 miles faster than you would run the 5k. 1 where you run the 5k distance and another run where you build up to 4 -6 miles. Well maybe not but its a thought

congrads on your success.





Edited by chirunner134 2008-09-24 6:09 PM


2008-09-24 10:19 PM
in reply to: #1694262

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
jldicarlo - 2008-09-24 3:03 PM

Early in your running career the answer is definitely run longer at an easier pace.

Really...you want the good aerobic base first before you put in speed work.  If you try to put in speed work before your legs are ready you will just get hurt.

Lots and lots of easy running will bring you mucho improvement at this point!

X3!!

I also learned the hard way.  Just keep increasing the distance slowly at a easy pace.  Speed will come naturally.    I have read that it is best not to do any speed work till you have many months (8 months if memory serves me well?) of slowly increasing your distance at a nice slow pace.

Michael

2008-09-24 10:32 PM
in reply to: #1694245

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

I'm going through this right now too Katie.  Let's stay in Zone 2!

My problem is my lungs and heart are way ahead of my legs, since I have a swimming background and have been swimming a few months now.  My legs start feeling like they are going to explode!!  Mind over matter, mind over matter...that is becoming my mantra.  Ignore the leg pain....Yell

2008-09-24 10:37 PM
in reply to: #1694947

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
toader - 2008-09-24 10:32 PM

I'm going through this right now too Katie. Let's stay in Zone 2!

My problem is my lungs and heart are way ahead of my legs, since I have a swimming background and have been swimming a few months now. My legs start feeling like they are going to explode!! Mind over matter, mind over matter...that is becoming my mantra. Ignore the leg pain....Yell

I feel exactly the same way...and also come from a swimming background...I aerobically feel ok, but my legs feel like they are going to fall off. I just have to push through that...I really need to consider getting a HRM. Thanks to everyone for the advice! I never dreamed I would be running (let alone 3 miles at a time) so all of you who have been at it longer are a great help!

Edited by kromanowski 2008-09-24 10:39 PM
2008-09-24 10:40 PM
in reply to: #1694245

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

Run for long periods at a slow jog pace, 10:30 or 11:00min/mile, that will increase your lactate threshold and help you to build base for running. in two or three months you can start doing tempos, speedwork and hill training, wich has worked wonders with my race times. I wasn't born a runner, but following these tips from a friend of mine (great runner and triathlete, 36:35 PR for a 10k), helped me achieve a lot more than I thought possible.

Good luck,

 

EV

 

2008-09-24 10:43 PM
in reply to: #1694953

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
evillarroel - 2008-09-24 10:40 PM

Run for long periods at a slow jog pace, 10:30 or 11:00min/mile, that will increase your lactate threshold and help you to build base for running. in two or three months you can start doing tempos, speedwork and hill training, wich has worked wonders with my race times. I wasn't born a runner, but following these tips from a friend of mine (great runner and triathlete, 36:35 PR for a 10k), helped me achieve a lot more than I thought possible.

Good luck,

EV

I dream of running 10:30-11:00 min/mile...right now I am closer to 12:00-13:00 min/mile


2008-09-25 7:05 AM
in reply to: #1694245

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

Even if you were at the point where you could add in speedwork, it wouldn't make much difference right now anyway.  Four weeks is not enough time to adapt.

Build mileage.

2008-09-25 7:25 AM
in reply to: #1694953

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
evillarroel - 2008-09-24 10:40 PM

Run for long periods at a slow jog pace, 10:30 or 11:00min/mile.

Good luck,

 

EV

 



I'm with Kromanowski on this one - That pace is not a long slow jog, that's faster than my runnung pace!! Oh well - just keep working at it, right?!
2008-09-25 8:49 AM
in reply to: #1694245

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

Steps to running improvement....

  1. Consistency: Get into a consistent routine, even if it's only two times per week and it doesn't matter how long you run.
  2. Keep it slow: By keeping the pace conversational, easy or Z2 and below, you're able to recover quicker, run more often (see #3) and longer (see #4).
  3. Frequency:  Try to build to 4-5 times per week, again duration doesn't matter, for now...
  4. Duration:  Now that you're up to 4+ runs per week, begin making that weekend run longer, adding a mile or two each week.  Most running experts suggest keeping your longest run under 25-35% of your weekly mileage.  So, if you've built up to 30 miles per week, your long run shouldn't be more than 7.5-10.5 miles.
  5. Variety:  Now that you're up to consistently running 20+ miles per week, start to incorporate variety into your training.  A good starting point are strides, or 20-30" bursts of faster paced running (not sprints) with 60-90 second jogs inbetween.  As you build fitness, you can add a tempo run.  Find some hills to run up and down.  Just keep 80% of your runs in the slow/easy category of running.
  6. Patience:  Don't expect to get faster in 4 weeks, or 4 months for that matter.  Stay with it and you will find running more and more enjoyable and you'll get faster too, just not by next week's race.   

My average training pace is about 8:45/mi.   However, I race 5k's under 7:00/mi and my 1/2-marathon PR was at a 7:21/mi pace.  Don't believe that you have to run fast all the time to get faster racing.  Consistency, frequency, duration and variety will make you faster.  Keeping it slow and having patience will keep you healthy.

Happy training!



Edited by mbmoran2 2008-09-25 8:54 AM
2008-09-25 9:33 AM
in reply to: #1694245

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
Great post Brian.  I need to find a way to save that so I can reference it so my foggy memory can always keep it fresh.
2008-09-25 10:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

evillarroel - 2008-09-24 11:40 PM  Run for long periods at a slow jog pace, 10:30 or 11:00min/mile, that will increase your lactate threshold and help you to build base for running.

Not quite .........

It will increase your aerobic base and allow a lot of the muscular adaptations that you need to run harder/faster/longer, that is true.

But it will not really increase your lactic threshold.  That can only really be achieved through LT work (tempo/interval runs).



Edited by Daremo 2008-09-25 10:25 AM


2008-09-25 10:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
Scout7 - 2008-09-25 6:05 AM

Even if you were at the point where you could add in speedwork, it wouldn't make much difference right now anyway.  Four weeks is not enough time to adapt.

Build mileage.



i agree with Scout's statement, but it seems that people often focus solely on physical adaptations. two other (and important) parts of running fast in a race are mental and motor skills.

and i would passively suggest that speedwork helps (a) your mind by building confidence in your speed and (b) your legs coordinate the different feeling of running fast. muscle memory so to speak. i assert that these benefits do take place on a much shorter time scale.
2008-09-25 10:44 AM
in reply to: #1694955

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
Ok then,if 10:30 is too fast for you it doesn't matter. Just run longer at a pace that's comfortable and easy to keep.
2008-09-25 10:48 AM
in reply to: #1695708

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
djluscher - 2008-09-25 11:33 AM
Scout7 - 2008-09-25 6:05 AM

Even if you were at the point where you could add in speedwork, it wouldn't make much difference right now anyway.  Four weeks is not enough time to adapt.

Build mileage.

i agree with Scout's statement, but it seems that people often focus solely on physical adaptations. two other (and important) parts of running fast in a race are mental and motor skills. and i would passively suggest that speedwork helps (a) your mind by building confidence in your speed and (b) your legs coordinate the different feeling of running fast. muscle memory so to speak. i assert that these benefits do take place on a much shorter time scale.

Strides work the muscle memory.  That's not speedwork, too short to be.  Keep them under 60 seconds, lots of recovery between each.

Mental part takes much longer than four weeks; that takes years.  I've seen people who run tempo runs faster than they run their races.  Why?  Because training is just training, people don't get worried about blowing up on a tempo run around the block.  A race, however...  Only way to get good at racing is to race.

2008-09-25 11:06 AM
in reply to: #1695759

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
Scout7 - 2008-09-25 9:48 AM

djluscher - 2008-09-25 11:33 AM
Scout7 - 2008-09-25 6:05 AM

Even if you were at the point where you could add in speedwork, it wouldn't make much difference right now anyway.  Four weeks is not enough time to adapt.

Build mileage.

i agree with Scout's statement, but it seems that people often focus solely on physical adaptations. two other (and important) parts of running fast in a race are mental and motor skills. and i would passively suggest that speedwork helps (a) your mind by building confidence in your speed and (b) your legs coordinate the different feeling of running fast. muscle memory so to speak. i assert that these benefits do take place on a much shorter time scale.

Strides work the muscle memory.  That's not speedwork, too short to be.  Keep them under 60 seconds, lots of recovery between each.

Mental part takes much longer than four weeks; that takes years.  I've seen people who run tempo runs faster than they run their races.  Why?  Because training is just training, people don't get worried about blowing up on a tempo run around the block.  A race, however...  Only way to get good at racing is to race.



i think you are speaking of mental toughness. confidence is different and does not take years. that the only way to get good at racing is to race, speaks to the value of emulating "race performance" in training. all of these things are important and is why football teams do indeed practice the week before a big game. they want to sharpen and rehearse. i'm not saying running is a huge "skill sport" - if it were i would suck. i am saying that running fast does have a skill component to it and you should at least know what your intended race pace feels like. if i do 6 x 400 at race pace (or whatever) three weeks before a race i feel more confident about race pace - regardless of whether the workout will increase my fitness. or mental toughness. thats just me i guess.

and i do agree that the OP should be cautious to avoid injury.
2008-09-25 12:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
djluscher - 2008-09-25 12:06 PM
Scout7 - 2008-09-25 9:48 AM
djluscher - 2008-09-25 11:33 AM
Scout7 - 2008-09-25 6:05 AM

Even if you were at the point where you could add in speedwork, it wouldn't make much difference right now anyway.  Four weeks is not enough time to adapt.

Build mileage.

i agree with Scout's statement, but it seems that people often focus solely on physical adaptations. two other (and important) parts of running fast in a race are mental and motor skills. and i would passively suggest that speedwork helps (a) your mind by building confidence in your speed and (b) your legs coordinate the different feeling of running fast. muscle memory so to speak. i assert that these benefits do take place on a much shorter time scale.

Strides work the muscle memory.  That's not speedwork, too short to be.  Keep them under 60 seconds, lots of recovery between each.

Mental part takes much longer than four weeks; that takes years.  I've seen people who run tempo runs faster than they run their races.  Why?  Because training is just training, people don't get worried about blowing up on a tempo run around the block.  A race, however...  Only way to get good at racing is to race.

i think you are speaking of mental toughness. confidence is different and does not take years. that the only way to get good at racing is to race, speaks to the value of emulating "race performance" in training. all of these things are important and is why football teams do indeed practice the week before a big game. they want to sharpen and rehearse. i'm not saying running is a huge "skill sport" - if it were i would suck. i am saying that running fast does have a skill component to it and you should at least know what your intended race pace feels like. if i do 6 x 400 at race pace (or whatever) three weeks before a race i feel more confident about race pace - regardless of whether the workout will increase my fitness. or mental toughness. thats just me i guess. and i do agree that the OP should be cautious to avoid injury.

I agree with you, to an extent.

Sure, you need to vary things up.  However, in the context of a new runner, I don't think he/she should be doing race simulations in training.  I think they are better off doing the races themselves.  How can you simulate a race if you don't know what one is like in the first place?  Also, it's very difficult for a new person to even determine what intended pace should be for a distance.  And if we're talking race pace-based training, I still think more than four weeks is necessary.



2008-09-25 12:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

Katie, I'm exactly where you are.  I did my second tri almost 2 weeks ago which included a 5K.  I had a really nice, steady work up to that distance and felt great about it on race day.

Well, I don't have another tri to do until April, and I'd like to use the winter to really build up my distance to do either a half-mary or a 10K in May.

In the meantime, I want to do a couple 5Ks this fall and plan on doing one 4 weeks from now.  I wondered if I should just keep doing 3 miles and hope I get faster or just increase my distance weekly.  I have noticed that when I run 1 mile now, my pace is a lot faster, so that does stand to reason that my 3 miles will eventually be faster once I get used to doing 5-7 miles.

Thanks to everyone who posted.

2008-09-25 12:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
lkagop - 2008-09-25 1:28 PM

Katie, I'm exactly where you are.  I did my second tri almost 2 weeks ago which included a 5K.  I had a really nice, steady work up to that distance and felt great about it on race day.

Well, I don't have another tri to do until April, and I'd like to use the winter to really build up my distance to do either a half-mary or a 10K in May.

In the meantime, I want to do a couple 5Ks this fall and plan on doing one 4 weeks from now.  I wondered if I should just keep doing 3 miles and hope I get faster or just increase my distance weekly.  I have noticed that when I run 1 mile now, my pace is a lot faster, so that does stand to reason that my 3 miles will eventually be faster once I get used to doing 5-7 miles.

Thanks to everyone who posted.

Up the volume.

2008-09-25 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer
Scout7 - 2008-09-25 1:32 PM
lkagop - 2008-09-25 1:28 PM

Katie, I'm exactly where you are.  I did my second tri almost 2 weeks ago which included a 5K.  I had a really nice, steady work up to that distance and felt great about it on race day.

Well, I don't have another tri to do until April, and I'd like to use the winter to really build up my distance to do either a half-mary or a 10K in May.

In the meantime, I want to do a couple 5Ks this fall and plan on doing one 4 weeks from now.  I wondered if I should just keep doing 3 miles and hope I get faster or just increase my distance weekly.  I have noticed that when I run 1 mile now, my pace is a lot faster, so that does stand to reason that my 3 miles will eventually be faster once I get used to doing 5-7 miles.

Thanks to everyone who posted.

Up the volume.

That I certainly will be doing.  Thank you.

2008-09-25 2:27 PM
in reply to: #1696079

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Subject: RE: Run faster vs. Run longer

x2

 

you need to increase your volume. You need to be running quite a bit further than just 3 miles if you want to continue to improve your 5k race times. It obv varies from person to person and running philosophies but an example would be during my base building periods I would be running 100+ miles /week and I was racing 5k's and 10k's. Now that is obv very much on the high end (and I was only running, no tri's) Also when doing lots of volume you need to keep it slow. One of my best friends would often run his 10 milers at about 6:45 pace even though his race pace for 10k was 4:30 pace.

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