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2008-12-28 11:53 AM

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2008-12-28 2:03 PM
in reply to: #1874461

Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
People on these plans fail to see they need to *gasp* save 5k in a bank to avoid the problem...

It boggles my mind that people will pay 100s more a month in premiums than save a little cash to 'self insure'
2008-12-28 2:08 PM
in reply to: #1874461

Champion
8936
50002000100050010010010010025
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
What's the problem? You pay lesser premiums for a reason, and you willingly enter into a contract with them knowing the terms.
2008-12-28 2:35 PM
in reply to: #1874541

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2008-12-28 2:49 PM
in reply to: #1874461

Master
1903
1000500100100100100
Portland, Oregon
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant

I doubt people realize how fast all the "regular" stuff adds up. They are thinking they are just hedging their bets against the biggies like cancer, etc.

I think it would be really helpful for people to know what things actually cost and what their options actually are. You can online price/feature shop just about everything except healthcare. How much does an xray cost? Does that include nurse, a tech to read it, and the follow up? Don't bother asking the doc. They don't know. The staff will (never) get back to you on that.

Paying yourself, out of pocket? Are you paying double what I pay cuz my insurance cut a good deal? Who knows? Just pay pay pay.

My own rant: Please pay some other company cuz the doc outsources all their billing to a bunch of idiots in another state 3 time zones away. Who double bill but will never call you back. Ever. Good thing I have low deductible insurance cuz they never argue about paying for anything.

2008-12-28 3:20 PM
in reply to: #1874541

Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant

bradword - 2008-12-28 3:03 PM People on these plans fail to see they need to *gasp* save 5k in a bank to avoid the problem... It boggles my mind that people will pay 100s more a month in premiums than save a little cash to 'self insure'

I work for a large employer, and the high deductible plan is ONLY $100/month LESS for the entire family than my plan.  I pay the highest premium but have no deductible, no required referrals to specialists, no copay with core network providers and unlimited physical therapy for my achilles tendons with NO additional out of pocket.  Plus, I pay NOTHING to get my regular mammogram, OB/GYN visit, physical, etc. with in network or core.  If I go out of network, I can do so without permission and I get 75% paid.

That's worth $100 more, period.  I know me, and for years I was stuck on my husband's icky plan and never went to the doc unless I had a fever of 106 and was fading in and out of consiousness.  Yes, that happened once.  But, the utter hassle of going to the doctor kept me from going, which was what they wanted, I'm sure.

I really think a high deductible plan is for someone who has a lot of liquidity and/or is willing to foot out of pocket payments for basic things that I listed above - and acutally go to the doctor.  I have liquidity, but I will NOT pay five grand out of pocket for the basics.  That's a pretty nice tri bike!

It's all about what works for the individual, but often times the monthly savings on the "high deductible" plans aren't worth the risk for most Americans.

Andi



Edited by Anditrigirl 2008-12-28 3:22 PM


2008-12-28 3:26 PM
in reply to: #1874461

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2008-12-28 3:31 PM
in reply to: #1874557

Master
2808
2000500100100100
, Minnesota
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
Why don't you start your own business, hire these two, provide a cheap, all encompassing plan for them and get them out of their dead end jobs? Problem solved.

AcesFull - 2008-12-28 2:35 PM

bradword - 2008-12-28 2:03 PM People on these plans fail to see they need to *gasp* save 5k in a bank to avoid the problem... It boggles my mind that people will pay 100s more a month in premiums than save a little cash to 'self insure'

5K may not be much to you and me, but its an awful lot to some guy working maintenance at the local high school, or the guy stocking the shelves at the local big box store.

 

 

2008-12-28 4:56 PM
in reply to: #1874461

Expert
1144
100010025
Kansas City, MO
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
I wish health insurance companies would give discounts on premiums for those that try to live a healthy lifestyle.  Our insurance provider (through my employer) gives a whopping $20.00/month discount if you don't smoke, but I don't think they follow up to prove that.  It'd be great if, based on a regular checkup (blood pressure, cholesterol levels, etc), we could get better rates.  Might that encourage more to choose a healthier lifestyle?
2008-12-28 5:57 PM
in reply to: #1874461

Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
Andi,

I understand what you are saying. And for $100/ month for an entire family it most likely is worth every extra penny in premiums.

What I am talking about are people who don't get discounts through work etc. Myself, being self-employed do not have many options. It's either high deductible or pay through the nose. I chose to save money in the bank to self insure the premium instead of some I know who pay 2x-3x times what I pay a month just to feel good that they only pay $10 co-pays. In the long run they are paying way more than 5k in premiums for that feeling.

Ace,

These are also the same people paying $200+ a month on cell phones and TV and have a PS3 and a flat screen TV. Priorities on saving money. As Dave Ramsey says: Live like no one else so later, you can live like no one else.
2008-12-28 6:11 PM
in reply to: #1874732

Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant

bradword - 2008-12-28 6:57 PM Andi, I understand what you are saying. And for $100/ month for an entire family it most likely is worth every extra penny in premiums. What I am talking about are people who don't get discounts through work etc. Myself, being self-employed do not have many options. It's either high deductible or pay through the nose. I chose to save money in the bank to self insure the premium instead of some I know who pay 2x-3x times what I pay a month just to feel good that they only pay $10 co-pays. In the long run they are paying way more than 5k in premiums for that feeling. Ace, These are also the same people paying $200+ a month on cell phones and TV and have a PS3 and a flat screen TV. Priorities on saving money. As Dave Ramsey says: Live like no one else so later, you can live like no one else.

Yeah, I am lucky that my employer is pretty big and the choice is EASY!  If I were self employed and couldn't rely on a spouse's insurance, then I would just have to save and go with a high deductible.  But, you'd be amazed how many people in my office at my large place of employment are on the high deductible plan.  It's really surprising. (These aren't young people, healthy people, or people of great means at all.)  I think these folks in my office just don't want to pay for insurance. (I think they are waiting for nationalized HC - which is another topic all its own!)



Edited by Anditrigirl 2008-12-28 6:13 PM


2008-12-28 6:39 PM
in reply to: #1874461

Master
1651
10005001002525
Breckenridge, CO
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
AcesFull - 2008-12-28 10:53 AM

The proliferation of high deductible plans is working. 


I think the main problem with this type of plan is that unless it's a group policy, the insurance company can exclude pre-existing conditions. So if you develop a condition, an individual policy will probably pay, but at some point they can cancel your policy. Then good luck finding another insurer that won't exclude that condition.

Obama should require insurers to make group policies available to everyone as long as there is never a lapse in coverage.
2008-12-29 3:14 AM
in reply to: #1874461

Master
2665
20005001002525
The Whites, New Hampshire
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
I know several employers who have been forced into offering only high deductible plans instead of HMO/PPOs. To make it up to their employees, they contribute to a health savings account, generally between 80-100% of the deductible. Now THAT is smart business AND taking care of your employees. Comes out cheaper for everyone, and employees still get good coverage.

Then you have people like my brother. Forced onto a high deductible, $3000, and will cover that with his first month and a half of prescriptions alone.
2008-12-29 7:25 AM
in reply to: #1874461

Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant

I'm going to disagree with you on this one.  I have a HDHCP and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it.  Why?  Because they put $300/month into an account for my wife and I to use and after the first year, THEY (Atena) have paid our deductable.  That's right...they paid our deductable.  I have the option to put money in myself, but chose not to.  That was a gamble on my part.

What do I get for saving 50% on my insurance premiums?  I get FREE, read NO deductible, FREE preventative exams.  My wife and I each get a physical, 2 dental cleanings and x-rays, $300 towards glasses and an eye exam, all of her girl exams and some other items for a grand total of $0. 

Because I made a calculated risk, for sure.  I could have taken the $1560 I saved in premiums the first year we had this plan and added it to the $3600 Aetna is putting into our account, but I didn't.  My wife still saw the dermatologist for some hand skin issues, I still saw the dermatologist for some acne issues.  If my wife or I were sick, we still went to the doctor.  Our medicine was paid using the CC that Aetna provided.  I have not paid a single dime out of pocket (outside of my premium) since getting a HDHCP.

So..tell me again how these plans are bad for the generally healthy person?  I will agree with you that they are NOT for eveyone.  But for the generally healthy individual that thinks ahead, they are GREAT!

Oh..and did I mention that the money I don't use from the year before I get to keep and the account keeps growing even if I choose to switch insurance companies? 

2008-12-29 7:41 AM
in reply to: #1875455

Champion
14571
50005000200020005002525
the alamo city, Texas
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
Marvarnett - 2008-12-29 8:25 AM

I'm going to disagree with you on this one.  I have a HDHCP and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it.  Why?  Because they put $300/month into an account for my wife and I to use and after the first year, THEY (Atena) have paid our deductable.  That's right...they paid our deductable.  I have the option to put money in myself, but chose not to.  That was a gamble on my part.

What do I get for saving 50% on my insurance premiums?  I get FREE, read NO deductible, FREE preventative exams.  My wife and I each get a physical, 2 dental cleanings and x-rays, $300 towards glasses and an eye exam, all of her girl exams and some other items for a grand total of $0. 

Because I made a calculated risk, for sure.  I could have taken the $1560 I saved in premiums the first year we had this plan and added it to the $3600 Aetna is putting into our account, but I didn't.  My wife still saw the dermatologist for some hand skin issues, I still saw the dermatologist for some acne issues.  If my wife or I were sick, we still went to the doctor.  Our medicine was paid using the CC that Aetna provided.  I have not paid a single dime out of pocket (outside of my premium) since getting a HDHCP.

So..tell me again how these plans are bad for the generally healthy person?  I will agree with you that they are NOT for eveyone.  But for the generally healthy individual that thinks ahead, they are GREAT!

Oh..and did I mention that the money I don't use from the year before I get to keep and the account keeps growing even if I choose to switch insurance companies? 

i opted for HDHP my first year at my current job and i put half the deductible in an HSA (which you can keep, rolls over at the end of the year, and matures like an IRA should you have a balance) and the company matched it.  which was OK since that year i did stay healthy.  but was horrible because if you are on any regular prescription, you pay the full price for it until you hit your high deductible.  on two asthma meds i was paying over $200 a month on scripts.  granted it came out of my HSA so it was either pre-tax or free money, but once i hit my deductible i was still paying 30% out of pocket!  people with any chronic condition are completely f-ed.  next year, our insurance is going to ONLY HDHP.  you have no choice any more.  awww carp.

2008-12-29 12:56 PM
in reply to: #1875455

Subject: ...
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2008-12-29 1:05 PM
in reply to: #1876038

Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
I still don't understand how it "ends up screwing people". How does it screw people when they know up front they are responsible for 5k? The whole point of insurance is to make sure you don't have costs you can never pay back. Even the lowly box boy can get 5k together in a year or two (which most hospitals would be happy to work out if you ask) where 150k wouldn't be possible.
2008-12-29 1:05 PM
in reply to: #1876038

Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
AcesFull - 2008-12-29 1:56 PM

Please note that while costs keep going up for consumers and employers, and compensation stays flat or declines for providers, the insurance folks are doing just fine.  

This unfortunately, is too true.  Yet they will be the first to scream they are not making enough money to stay in business.

2008-12-29 1:07 PM
in reply to: #1876069

Champion
14571
50005000200020005002525
the alamo city, Texas
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant

bradword - 2008-12-29 2:05 PM I still don't understand how it "ends up screwing people". How does it screw people when they know up front they are responsible for 5k? The whole point of insurance is to make sure you don't have costs you can never pay back. Even the lowly box boy can get 5k together in a year or two (which most hospitals would be happy to work out if you ask) where 150k wouldn't be possible.

in what planet?  i'm an engineer and don't have access to that kind of cash...

2008-12-29 1:07 PM
in reply to: #1874461

Champion
8766
5000200010005001001002525
Evergreen, Colorado
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant

I will admit to being clueless about regular health care plans.  I'm in the military and my wonderful healthcare is free.

But I've dealt with quite a few "off base referrals" and the whole thing honestly mystifies me.  I had one procedure that the bill totaled up to $5000.  And I swear that in the end the insurance only paid $500ish.  If a doctor is willing to take that little money why does he charge $5000 in the first place?????

I had to see a few docs as "cash pay" because my insurance wasn't in the loop.  Nothing illegal...for example I wanted to see a good ortho in Boulder to fix my ITBS.  The military wasn't fond of the idea so I did an office visit with him to try to see if he could fix me.  He knew I was cash pay and thus totally hooked me up with the cheapest billing option he could find for me.  If I had not talked the AF into paying for the surgery he recommended, the "cash option" wasn't all that bad.  I guess I just find it crazy that they charge insurance companies so much more...almost as if they know the insurance companies pay on a rate and in order to get what they want they have to charge more.  I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but I guess my point is that we are stabbling OURSELVES in the foot with this process.  By having insurance we are forcing doctors to charge more.

Am I crazy?

Let's see if I can keep this from becoming a hijack.

I would say that having a deductible like that IS hedging against something catastrophic.  It's like having a high deductible on your car.  Maybe you can afford $1k, but you couldn't afford $10k.  Same thing with healthcare.  It's a gamble.  If you don't get really really sick you don't pay a lot.  If you do get really really sick you don't pay a lot.

But I could see people avoiding the doc for simple things to avoid paying that $5k.

I would probably go for a higher monthly premium...because I think in the end I would end up paying less.  The monthly premium increase would have to be over $400/month to come out to $5k over a year...right?



Edited by jldicarlo 2008-12-29 1:12 PM
2008-12-29 1:10 PM
in reply to: #1876076

Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
meherczeg - 2008-12-29 12:07 PM

bradword - 2008-12-29 2:05 PM I still don't understand how it "ends up screwing people". How does it screw people when they know up front they are responsible for 5k? The whole point of insurance is to make sure you don't have costs you can never pay back. Even the lowly box boy can get 5k together in a year or two (which most hospitals would be happy to work out if you ask) where 150k wouldn't be possible.

in what planet?  i'm an engineer and don't have access to that kind of cash...



You honestly can say you couldn't save 5k in two years?


2008-12-29 1:12 PM
in reply to: #1876084

Champion
14571
50005000200020005002525
the alamo city, Texas
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
bradword - 2008-12-29 2:10 PM
meherczeg - 2008-12-29 12:07 PM

bradword - 2008-12-29 2:05 PM I still don't understand how it "ends up screwing people". How does it screw people when they know up front they are responsible for 5k? The whole point of insurance is to make sure you don't have costs you can never pay back. Even the lowly box boy can get 5k together in a year or two (which most hospitals would be happy to work out if you ask) where 150k wouldn't be possible.

in what planet?  i'm an engineer and don't have access to that kind of cash...

You honestly can say you couldn't save 5k in two years?

well i've been working on it and, no, so far i've been unsuccessful.  single income and homeowner, i do what i can but 5K is a LOT.



Edited by meherczeg 2008-12-29 1:16 PM
2008-12-29 1:12 PM
in reply to: #1876069

Subject: ...
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Edited by AcesFull 2008-12-29 1:12 PM
2008-12-29 1:18 PM
in reply to: #1876095

Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
Depends on your priorities. Last year I made ~50k before business expenses and was able to save a lot of money (and I live in a very expensive area). I do this by being debt free, driving a very used but reliable car and not spending 55k a year. It's doable. I just don't have all the toys as some do. I don't drive a nice new car, have a PS3 a new tv etc.


Edit: Oh, and I have 3 kids, a dog and I'm supporting my bro-in-law.

Edited by bradword 2008-12-29 1:18 PM
2008-12-29 2:26 PM
in reply to: #1874557

Champion
10471
500050001001001001002525
Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: Yet another healthcare rant
I live paycheck to paycheck. I can't save up $5,000. That's a lot of money I don't have.


AcesFull - 2008-12-28 2:35 PM

bradword - 2008-12-28 2:03 PM People on these plans fail to see they need to *gasp* save 5k in a bank to avoid the problem... It boggles my mind that people will pay 100s more a month in premiums than save a little cash to 'self insure'

5K may not be much to you and me, but its an awful lot to some guy working maintenance at the local high school, or the guy stocking the shelves at the local big box store.

 

 

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