General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Proper cycling technique... Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2009-03-02 12:25 PM

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: Proper cycling technique...

Maybe you roadies or the "Cycling Guru" can chip in....

I read recently (well, withing the last 6 months) about 'lifting' on the peddle from the 7o'clock to 11 o'clock position.  Not enough to be actually pulling up on the peddle, but at least to unweight them some.  How accurate it this statement?

I found that when I practiced this during my long ride, my cadence felt a tad more even (applying force around the entire 360 degrees), but it also had to be thinking to do it.  I wasn't natural.  Also, the muscles to lift the leg (top front, at the hip) got tired.  I'm sure it has to do with lack of use...

However I have also read to invision 'wiping mud' off the bottom of your shoe at the bottom of the rotation, as if you sort of pull back and up...  How about that tip?  Correct?

I just feel that my cycling has not improved as much as I would have hoped over the years.  I'm looking for some kind of breakthrough, and I am examining my technique some...



2009-03-02 12:31 PM
in reply to: #1991821

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...

Ride more.  Ride harder.

Your feet are attached to the pedals and have little choice about the motion they make.  Do the above and your "technique" will take care of itself.

2009-03-02 12:33 PM
in reply to: #1991821

User image

Cycling Guru
15134
50005000500010025
Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...

There have been a lot of different philosophies on what is the best way to pedal.  For years people talked about "pedaling in circles" but that has been found to be inefficient and wasteful.

What seems to be the most effective is that you are applying force from just after the top of the stroke until just past the bottom.  Then you are applying the force with the other leg on the other side.  During this point you bascially have the other leg "along for the ride" until it gets back up to the power application point.

By my understanding this maximizes your effort without creating a constant load on each leg by trying to "pedal in circles."  You simply waste more energy by trying to pull up on each stroke while pushing down on the other side.

There is a whole part of the industry trying to engineer parts to help augment the biomechanics of your pedal stroke (see Q Rings and Biopace from years ago).

2009-03-02 12:40 PM
in reply to: #1991858

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...
Daremo - 2009-03-02 10:33 AM

There have been a lot of different philosophies on what is the best way to pedal.  For years people talked about "pedaling in circles" but that has been found to be inefficient and wasteful.

What seems to be the most effective is that you are applying force from just after the top of the stroke until just past the bottom.  Then you are applying the force with the other leg on the other side.  During this point you bascially have the other leg "along for the ride" until it gets back up to the power application point.

By my understanding this maximizes your effort without creating a constant load on each leg by trying to "pedal in circles."  You simply waste more energy by trying to pull up on each stroke while pushing down on the other side.

There is a whole part of the industry trying to engineer parts to help augment the biomechanics of your pedal stroke (see Q Rings and Biopace from years ago).

See, I would tend to agree.  In general, if you do something enough, your body would become basically efficient at it.  I think that after thousands of miles or riding, most of the bad habits would go away...  Not to say you can't work on some details of s/b/r technique to improve.

2009-03-02 12:53 PM
in reply to: #1991821

User image

Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...
get power cranks
2009-03-02 6:02 PM
in reply to: #1991926

User image

Champion
7233
5000200010010025
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...
lol ok frank


2009-03-02 8:16 PM
in reply to: #1991821

User image

Expert
1123
1000100
Columbus
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...

I wondered about the validity of pedaling in circels. I was told it was best but I feel like I go as fast / spend less energy using the downstroke only (or at least primarily).  I have been starting my power portion just before 12 oclock and go through to about 6 o'clock - so basically i am trying to push the pedal for 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock - am i getting a poor power return on my energy investment here?

I am a swimmer/runner not much of a biker (and i'm cheap sob) so I have basket clips - I have thought about getting clipless pedals and shoes - but if it is not beneficial to pull up the pedal stroke, am i getting a good return for my money nvestment here?  

 

Futhermore should my knees be in line with my hips and ankles or slightly in?

What about my elbows?

How do I decide the best seat tilt/height/fowardness?

What else can I do to make the most of my energy?

 

2009-03-02 8:43 PM
in reply to: #1991858

Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...
Daremo - 2009-03-02 1:33 PM

There have been a lot of different philosophies on what is the best way to pedal.  For years people talked about "pedaling in circles" but that has been found to be inefficient and wasteful.

What seems to be the most effective is that you are applying force from just after the top of the stroke until just past the bottom.  Then you are applying the force with the other leg on the other side.  During this point you bascially have the other leg "along for the ride" until it gets back up to the power application point.

That's sort of the opposite of what I've recently been told to do. I was told what Kido mentioned before, pulling back with your hamstrings and driving your leg forward towards the handlebars, and not worrying so much about the pushing down, because that's going to happen anyway. So it's still not "pedaling in a circle", but it's focusing more on the back and top of the pedal stroke. And my one-legged drills are much smoother when I do this. I find that when I pull back and up, I can generate more power, than just mashing with my quads. But that is wrong, then?



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2009-03-02 8:44 PM
2009-03-03 1:07 AM
in reply to: #1992995

User image

Master
1903
1000500100100100100
Portland, Oregon
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...
wurkit_gurl - 2009-03-02 6:43 PM
Daremo - 2009-03-02 1:33 PM

There have been a lot of different philosophies on what is the best way to pedal.  For years people talked about "pedaling in circles" but that has been found to be inefficient and wasteful.

What seems to be the most effective is that you are applying force from just after the top of the stroke until just past the bottom.  Then you are applying the force with the other leg on the other side.  During this point you bascially have the other leg "along for the ride" until it gets back up to the power application point.

That's sort of the opposite of what I've recently been told to do. I was told what Kido mentioned before, pulling back with your hamstrings and driving your leg forward towards the handlebars, and not worrying so much about the pushing down, because that's going to happen anyway. So it's still not "pedaling in a circle", but it's focusing more on the back and top of the pedal stroke. And my one-legged drills are much smoother when I do this. I find that when I pull back and up, I can generate more power, than just mashing with my quads. But that is wrong, then?

My trainer has been giving me some drills to do while out on the road. They include "circles" and high cadence riding. I don't know if he is cutting edge on the newest cycling theories, however I have noticed a few things.

1- Practicing "circles" does tend to make my pedaling smoother. I don't currently have the stamina to do circles for an entire ride. As someone noted above, it is tiring on muscles not used to doing it.

2- If I want a sustained burst of speed to catch someone, I use the circles and my speed picks up. I am getting stronger, and I can now do it longer. While I mostly use it to catch a wheel (group rides) it would also be useful in quickly completing a pass to avoid appearance of drafting.

3- Practicing circles allows me to pedal at a higher cadence smoothly (no bouncing). Year before last I mashed. A cadence of 90 was fast. Last year, 105 was 'really fast' and I couldn't quite maintain that. Now, 115 is where I start having problems. Partly its aerobic capacity, partly its ability to smoothly pedal that fast. For me it's taken practice. This would sorta bring us to a discussion of what a person's cadence "should" be, but I think there are a lot of variables there and it can be different for everyone - look at Lance (high) and Jan Ulrich (low). 

While 'circles' may not be the best thing to do, they seem like they are the key to smooth riding for me.  I have often gotten the comment from my hubby that I look all relaxed up at the front when in fact I am pegged and about ready to blow a gasket. If all your power is going into your legs/pedal stroke then you aren't wasting energy rocking back and forth redistributing weight to mash the pedals down. (Caused by other problems as well.) That's fine in a sprint to the finish, but not good for the long haul. For me, circles, one-leg drills and sustained igh cadence have helped my speed. YMMV.

Oh, and to whoever is using the baskets, try to demo some shoes. You'll be amazed. You don't even have to get super-fancy roadie shoes. The less expensive low end mountain bike shoes will also give you the clip in/stiff sole that will help with your power. I used those for quite a while (5 yrs) before upgrading. I am cheap.   Just try riding on some grass to practice. That way when you pitch over the first time it won't hurt much.  I'd rather not say how I know this.

2009-03-03 5:40 AM
in reply to: #1991821

User image

Extreme Veteran
466
1001001001002525
Cornfield in Northern Iowa
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...
2009-03-03 6:35 AM
in reply to: #1991821

Expert
810
500100100100
Southeast
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...

This picture:

 Pedaling Profile

has been helpful to me.  (It is from this article by Coyle et al., though I grabbed the picture from here.  I encourage you to read the article and look at the profiles for the individual riders.  The picture is a summary of the two groups -- there are some interesting and possibly relevant deviations from these means within the groups.)  Notice, in particular, that apart from the most obvious difference (more power in the elite cyclists -- surprise surprise!), the elite cyclists' 'opposite' leg does appear to be more or less "along for the ride" as Rick said, as opposed to the (still talented, but not elite) 'state' cyclists, who are working harder in the region outside of the main power producing part of the stroke.  But notice, also, that the torque is indeed more or less zero (though slightly negative at one point) in this part of the stroke for the elites, which means that they are unweighting the opposite leg, not 'pushing it up' with the leg that is producing power.  In other words, it isn't just inactive dead weight.  My guess is that they are doing just enough to keep the stroke smooth.



2009-03-03 6:54 AM
in reply to: #1991821

User image

Master
2946
200050010010010010025
Centennial, CO
Subject: RE: Proper cycling technique...

Just to jump into this one.  If you want to get better, ride with other cyclists.  We as Triathletes tend to spend a lot of time riding alone.  It is really hard to improve that much by yourself.  Find a group and ride with others.  Even drafting (if you have a road bike).  It will make you stronger and you'll learn from others.  Not much diferent from joining a Masters group.  You will learn pacing and especially bike handling skills that a lot of people are missing.

Along with this, do some centuries or at least some metric centuries.  Again with the thought of riding longer.  This will improve your riding.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Proper cycling technique... Rss Feed