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2009-05-14 8:37 PM

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Subject: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
I have been trying to work on my bilateral breathing for a while now with little success. I am able to comfortably breathe to my left (I'm a righty, not sure if that matters). Breathing to the right, however, is no fun. It tweaks my neck and generally annoys me.

Of course, it's clear that I need to work this out because I can tell it's unbalancing my stroke a bit and also after a long swim my right shoulder tires easier than my left. I can't really but my finger on what the issue is (rotation, stroke, timing) but I have spent countless time trying to replicate what's working on my left to my right.

Separate from that, I'm also finding I need (want?) to breathe every other stroke because I want the air. Perhaps I need to just HTFU. I can breathe every 3rd, then every 2nd, then every 3rd. I begin exhaling as soon as my head goes below. Perhaps I should wait an extra second so I'm not deflated before I finish that 3rd stroke?

Looking for any advice, HTFU's, video, drills, or you can just make fun of me I am planning on a lesson(s) so I've got that down but I want to figure at least part of it out myself.


2009-05-14 8:57 PM
in reply to: #2151984

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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
I've got asthma so breathing while swimming is an issue.  Used to breathe right, stroke, stroke, stroke, breathe left, etc., and could never go faster without getting winded.  I've started breathing to the same side for 3 strokes, then breathing to the other side for 3 strokes.  Learned this from a great swimmer on BT, juliapurr.  In open water she also sights in the switch from one side to the other. 

I definitely breathe better on one side than the other, but as you know it's better to breathe on both sides.  In workouts I'll regularly go a full length breathing to my weak side to force myself to get a rhythm.  One length is all I can handle now w/o switching or drowning, but it's getting better.

Another thing that might help is to get massages to loosen up the muscles, and see a chiropractor in case you're out of alignment.  Your neck should not be tweaking from turnng to breathe.

Lessons will definitely help -- what we think we're doing and what we're actually doing when we swim are not the same.
2009-05-14 9:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
Without seeing you swim it's hard to say, but I had a similiar problem. Took lessons (highly recommend this). I rotated to my left but tended to pick my head up and face plant it back into the water. Because I was lifting UP it put pressure on the chest, i.e. I didn't take in as much air as when I rotated properly. Drills drills and more drills later I think I got it fixed!
2009-05-14 9:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general

When I was learning to bilat breathe I swam one length of the pool facing breathing to one side and breathed to the  other side on the way back.  I still do this every swim.  Took a bit of time to get used to it but now I don't even think about it.

2009-05-14 9:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
Its hard for some to learn, You have to roll with the strokes. It definatly a big plus to learn because of different conditions such as wind coming at you with waves , you go onto the other side where its easier to breathe.
2009-05-14 9:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
It's okay to breath every 2nd stroke. I try 2, 4, 2, 4 or some mix of that. Agreed it is best to bilateral breath to balance out your stroke.

I've struggled with bilateral breathing as well. What if found helps me the best is do lengths of one arm swimming. Have one arm extended and just do swim stroke with other arm. You can do a whole length with right arm extended and stroke with your left and breath what is comfortable. Then do a whole length of your weaker side. It helps you learn the proper position to breath comfortably. I then will swim one armed still doing 4 right, 4 left so I practice each side and practice going from breathing one side to the other. If I do 100 or 200 of single arm first bilateral is always better.  I will then do a whole length or two of breathing every 2nd stroke on my weak side. If I struggle again I'll do 4-8 strokes of single arm.

When I first started working on my weaker side I found my extended arm drifting more to the middle so I felt off balance. By imagining my arm extended was more at 11 or 1 o'clock it helped me balance better when I breathed.


2009-05-14 10:33 PM
in reply to: #2151984

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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
I'm having the exact same problem you are three weeks into my swimming "career".  If I focus attention, I can breath on the right side.  But the moment I'm focusing attention on some other aspect of my swim, I'm back to a breath every other stroke on the left.  On my first really long swim a couple days ago (800m), I reverted to just breathing every other stroke on the left side.  The problem - my shoulder was quite sore the next morning.  I don't have any solutions to offer, but if you find something that works for you, please let us know! 
2009-05-14 11:11 PM
in reply to: #2151984

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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
merlin2375 - 2009-05-14 7:37 PM
Looking for any advice,


Here's some, breathe to your good side and concentrate on things that will make you faster and more efficient.

IMO, unless it's totally natural, bilateral breathing is a waste of time. I breathe right on every stroke and I've never once felt hindered in open water. With bilateral breathing you have four arm strokes to perfect. With my stroke, I have two: (1)left arm with a breath to the right, (2)right arm with no breath. IMO, perfecting two types of arm strokes is much easier than four.

I think the reason beginners tend towards bilateral breathing is that it's an "improvement" they can make that is easy to measure. But in terms of swimming speed and efficiency, I think it's a distraction away from important stroke issues. If bilateral breathing was truly important then all the FOP swimmers would be doing it. They don't.
2009-05-15 12:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
I agree with breckview...I used to swim competitively and can tell you that there a plenty of excellent swimmers that do not bilateral breathe, even in the collegiate and olympic ranks.  I always breathe to my left as it is most comfortable to me, at the paces we go for these things you aren't going to get much of an advantage for always bilateral breathing.  you shouldn't really have to rotate too far to get some air in, just work on tilting your head to the side without moving it up or down and changing the position of your shoulder/right arm.   One main advantage that I can see and I honestly don't know that much about due to my limited open water experience is being able to switch on the fly in order to pick the side that is easier as far as current/wind/the guy swiming next to you...
2009-05-15 9:21 AM
in reply to: #2152232

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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
destriero - 2009-05-14 11:44 PM
One main advantage that I can see and I honestly don't know that much about due to my limited open water experience is being able to switch on the fly in order to pick the side that is easier as far as current/wind/


In a lake, since the wind can blow from an infinite number of directions, the odds that it will be blowing in such a way that it hinders breathing is small. Most tri's are in the morning when the wind is calm. On top of that, if the wind is strong, the swim will probably be cancelled anyway.

Anytime I have any issue with wind waves, I just tilt my head a little to modify the wake I breathe behind. If I need to I'll breathe back towards my armpit more. In 100s of OWS's I've never once been significantly hindered by wind waves.

In the Ocean when swimming parallel to shore (like a La Jolla Cove), you could be facing some waves. But as a swimmer in the ocean you're really just riding the waves up and down, so all you have to do is be careful when breathing in a wave trough.

the guy swiming next to you...

If someone is beside you, at the same speed, you should be drafting off him. Because of that, I'd think bilateral breathing would be more important in competitive pool distance swimming. But even those swimmers often only breathe to one side. In an OWS, I'll breathe to my bad side a few times to search for a draft, but that's not something that I need to practice or become comfortable with.

The sighting argument doesn't hold water either. You sight by looking forward. I don't breathe on the sight stroke and just barely raise my eyes above the water level to find a buoy or my landmark.

In terms of swimming an efficient course in OW, it's most important that you can swim a straight line so you don't have to sight much. Since I have a race on Sunday, today I'll be swimming a lot with my eyes closed to determine how straight I'm naturally swimming right now. Based on that test I'll come up with the number of strokes between each sighting. Then when I'm not drafting, I'll count my strokes in the OWS and sight based on that count. I can usually swim 25 yards without hitting the lane lines but I do skew a little by the end of the length. Today I'll figure out what that skew is, then upon every sighting I'll intentionally correct that skew in the OW.

Balanced muscle argument. I have zero unbalance in my muscles and I never breath left. In breathing all you're doing is rotating the head. It shouldn't require much of any muscle use.

Again, there's certainly nothing wrong with bilateral breathing if it's easy for you. But I don't think it's worth spending any time on if it's more natural to breathe to just one side. If a beginner/intermediate in pretty good shape is swimming say 1:50/100y, they have severe stroke issues that are far more important to work on. IMO, if a coach were to tell that person to work on bilateral breathing instead of those other major issues, I'd be very worried about that coach's advice.

ETA:
Hey destriero, good luck on Sunday! I'll be racing in Longmont also.


Edited by breckview 2009-05-15 9:26 AM
2009-05-15 9:31 AM
in reply to: #2151984

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Modesto, California
Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general

If you want to learn, just dedicate 10 minutes each practice using a pull bouy and do a lap one side and switch, a pull bouy will keep your hips and legs up while you breath on your weak side, this will help you breath while you get used to the mechanics of breathing,pull, recovery and rotation on your weak side. Be patient and it will become natural.



2009-05-15 9:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
breckview - 2009-05-15 9:21 AM
destriero - 2009-05-14 11:44 PM One main advantage that I can see and I honestly don't know that much about due to my limited open water experience is being able to switch on the fly in order to pick the side that is easier as far as current/wind/
In a lake, since the wind can blow from an infinite number of directions, the odds that it will be blowing in such a way that it hinders breathing is small. Most tri's are in the morning when the wind is calm. On top of that, if the wind is strong, the swim will probably be cancelled anyway. Anytime I have any issue with wind waves, I just tilt my head a little to modify the wake I breathe behind. If I need to I'll breathe back towards my armpit more. In 100s of OWS's I've never once been significantly hindered by wind waves. In the Ocean when swimming parallel to shore (like a La Jolla Cove), you could be facing some waves. But as a swimmer in the ocean you're really just riding the waves up and down, so all you have to do is be careful when breathing in a wave trough.
the guy swiming next to you...
If someone is beside you, at the same speed, you should be drafting off him. Because of that, I'd think bilateral breathing would be more important in competitive pool distance swimming. But even those swimmers often only breathe to one side. In an OWS, I'll breathe to my bad side a few times to search for a draft, but that's not something that I need to practice or become comfortable with. The sighting argument doesn't hold water either. You sight by looking forward. I don't breathe on the sight stroke and just barely raise my eyes above the water level to find a buoy or my landmark. In terms of swimming an efficient course in OW, it's most important that you can swim a straight line so you don't have to sight much. Since I have a race on Sunday, today I'll be swimming a lot with my eyes closed to determine how straight I'm naturally swimming right now. Based on that test I'll come up with the number of strokes between each sighting. Then when I'm not drafting, I'll count my strokes in the OWS and sight based on that count. I can usually swim 25 yards without hitting the lane lines but I do skew a little by the end of the length. Today I'll figure out what that skew is, then upon every sighting I'll intentionally correct that skew in the OW. Balanced muscle argument. I have zero unbalance in my muscles and I never breath left. In breathing all you're doing is rotating the head. It shouldn't require much of any muscle use. Again, there's certainly nothing wrong with bilateral breathing if it's easy for you. But I don't think it's worth spending any time on if it's more natural to breathe to just one side. If a beginner/intermediate in pretty good shape is swimming say 1:50/100y, they have severe stroke issues that are far more important to work on. IMO, if a coach were to tell that person to work on bilateral breathing instead of those other major issues, I'd be very worried about that coach's advice. ETA: Hey destriero, good luck on Sunday! I'll be racing in Longmont also.



x2 I only breath to my right. No matter if it's a 200 or a 2000 I breath every stroke, to my right.
2009-05-15 9:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
I agree that doing one arm drills will help you, it's really as simple as that.  You have to get used to the motion & action of breathing on your non-dominant side.  Four months ago, I could barely make it 3/4 the length of the pool doing one arm drills (right arm out, left arm stroking, breathing on left) and now I am comfortably passing other swimmers. I incorporate 200m of drills after every warm-up & I have definitely seen an improvement since I made them part of my routine.  Good luck!
2009-05-15 10:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
breckview - 2009-05-15 8:21 AM
destriero - 2009-05-14 11:44 PM One main advantage that I can see and I honestly don't know that much about due to my limited open water experience is being able to switch on the fly in order to pick the side that is easier as far as current/wind/
In a lake, since the wind can blow from an infinite number of directions, the odds that it will be blowing in such a way that it hinders breathing is small. Most tri's are in the morning when the wind is calm. On top of that, if the wind is strong, the swim will probably be cancelled anyway. Anytime I have any issue with wind waves, I just tilt my head a little to modify the wake I breathe behind. If I need to I'll breathe back towards my armpit more. In 100s of OWS's I've never once been significantly hindered by wind waves. In the Ocean when swimming parallel to shore (like a La Jolla Cove), you could be facing some waves. But as a swimmer in the ocean you're really just riding the waves up and down, so all you have to do is be careful when breathing in a wave trough.
the guy swiming next to you...
If someone is beside you, at the same speed, you should be drafting off him. Because of that, I'd think bilateral breathing would be more important in competitive pool distance swimming. But even those swimmers often only breathe to one side. In an OWS, I'll breathe to my bad side a few times to search for a draft, but that's not something that I need to practice or become comfortable with. The sighting argument doesn't hold water either. You sight by looking forward. I don't breathe on the sight stroke and just barely raise my eyes above the water level to find a buoy or my landmark. In terms of swimming an efficient course in OW, it's most important that you can swim a straight line so you don't have to sight much. Since I have a race on Sunday, today I'll be swimming a lot with my eyes closed to determine how straight I'm naturally swimming right now. Based on that test I'll come up with the number of strokes between each sighting. Then when I'm not drafting, I'll count my strokes in the OWS and sight based on that count. I can usually swim 25 yards without hitting the lane lines but I do skew a little by the end of the length. Today I'll figure out what that skew is, then upon every sighting I'll intentionally correct that skew in the OW. Balanced muscle argument. I have zero unbalance in my muscles and I never breath left. In breathing all you're doing is rotating the head. It shouldn't require much of any muscle use. Again, there's certainly nothing wrong with bilateral breathing if it's easy for you. But I don't think it's worth spending any time on if it's more natural to breathe to just one side. If a beginner/intermediate in pretty good shape is swimming say 1:50/100y, they have severe stroke issues that are far more important to work on. IMO, if a coach were to tell that person to work on bilateral breathing instead of those other major issues, I'd be very worried about that coach's advice. ETA: Hey destriero, good luck on Sunday! I'll be racing in Longmont also.


I agree with almost everything you wrote. I never found bilateral breathing to be of any real benefit. I've also never had any problems breathing to one side in a variety of open water conditions in both lakes and oceans.

I'm not so sure I agree about people swimming at 1:50/100 having major issues. At a pool tri I observed last year 80% or more didn't swim that fast.
2009-05-15 10:50 AM
in reply to: #2151984

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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
Try doing some laps (like someone suggested above, 10 minutes each session) just focusing on breathing. SLOW DOWN, RELAX, and just focus on getting good breaths. Also, make sure you are exhaling as soon as you put your head back in the water. Many people have a hard time breathing in the beginning because they are not exhaling all the way.

Do that for a few weeks and your breathing should improve. If you still struggle, try a lesson or two with a coach.
2009-05-15 10:57 AM
in reply to: #2151984

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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general

Practice, practice, practice. When I first started bilateral it was frustrating, but relax, you'll get it. As to breathing, might sound simple, but be sure to exhale completely, forcefully if you have to. Got to clear the lungs out before you get some fresh air in there.



2009-05-15 1:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
breckview - 2009-05-15 12:11 AM
merlin2375 - 2009-05-14 7:37 PM Looking for any advice,
Here's some, breathe to your good side and concentrate on things that will make you faster and more efficient. IMO, unless it's totally natural, bilateral breathing is a waste of time. I breathe right on every stroke and I've never once felt hindered in open water. With bilateral breathing you have four arm strokes to perfect. With my stroke, I have two: (1)left arm with a breath to the right, (2)right arm with no breath. IMO, perfecting two types of arm strokes is much easier than four. I think the reason beginners tend towards bilateral breathing is that it's an "improvement" they can make that is easy to measure. But in terms of swimming speed and efficiency, I think it's a distraction away from important stroke issues. If bilateral breathing was truly important then all the FOP swimmers would be doing it. They don't.



I've never seen an elite swimmer breathing every other stroke in the olympics, why is that? After all, if breathing doens't hinder speed and or efficiency, why do so many swimmers(at that level) take as many strokes as they can between breaths?  Am I just totally confused as to why they don't breath as often? 
2009-05-15 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
x2!

You would've laughed at me when I first started trying to bilaterally breathe. I even managed to take in more than my daily requirement of chlorine several times. You'll get it, trust me!

To start, try breathing for an entire swim workout on one side, the next workout on the other. Assuming you have a weak side, start by breathing on that side. Make a drill out of it.

Personally, I really enjoy breathing bilaterally. Most importantly for me, it's rythmic. Helps me pace and keep smooth. Second, my right neck muscle (deltoid???) doesn't take all the beating. Third, it has come in handy during several races where either the sun was in my eyes, I needed to sight course markers, or big rollers were hitting me from one side. You don't have to bilaterally breath to solve the above problems, just being comfortable breathing on either side will do.

I breathe: 1,2,3, breathe, 1,2,3 breathe. Better breathing should come with better swim fitness.

Keep at it, you'll get there!

2009-05-15 2:20 PM
in reply to: #2151984

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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general

I taught myself to do it by making myself breathe to my bad side for a whole length at a time.  Felt like throwing a baseball with my left hand, but it's either breathe or stop swimming at that point.  Took awhile, but now I can breathe to either side without a problem.

Having said that, it's nice to be able to do, but I breathe to one side in races. 

2009-05-15 2:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general

After several tries, I also found it easier for me to breathe only on my right left side (also right handed) every stroke. I have never felt at a disadvantage for swimming this way either, nor have I had any other problems sighting, or waves or anything. To me, the swim is about finding a comfort zone and maintaining a good swim pace as best you can.

 

edited to distinguish my right from my left!



Edited by jford2309 2009-05-15 2:23 PM
2009-05-15 2:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
Bioteknik - 2009-05-15 12:06 PM
I've never seen an elite swimmer breathing every other stroke in the olympics, why is that? After all, if breathing doens't hinder speed and or efficiency, why do so many swimmers(at that level) take as many strokes as they can between breaths?  Am I just totally confused as to why they don't breath as often? 

Watch this and let me know if you still believe what you said above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWeUZO9xdyA


2009-05-15 3:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
Donskiman - 2009-05-15 10:36 AM
....

I'm not so sure I agree about people swimming at 1:50/100 having major issues. At a pool tri I observed last year 80% or more didn't swim that fast.


Thanks for saying so, I was beginning to get down on myself...
2009-05-15 4:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
breckview - 2009-05-15 3:40 PM
Bioteknik - 2009-05-15 12:06 PM I've never seen an elite swimmer breathing every other stroke in the olympics, why is that? After all, if breathing doens't hinder speed and or efficiency, why do so many swimmers(at that level) take as many strokes as they can between breaths?  Am I just totally confused as to why they don't breath as often? 
Watch this and let me know if you still believe what you said above. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWeUZO9xdyA
/>
guess not!

Edited by Bioteknik 2009-05-15 4:02 PM
2009-05-15 5:06 PM
in reply to: #2153396

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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
Bioteknik - 2009-05-15 1:06 PM
I've never seen an elite swimmer breathing every other stroke in the olympics, why is that? After all, if breathing doens't hinder speed and or efficiency, why do so many swimmers(at that level) take as many strokes as they can between breaths?  Am I just totally confused as to why they don't breath as often? 


In short distances it does count.  Breathing does make one less efficient in the water. 

Watch Cesar Cielo Filho in his gold medal swim in Beijing.  50m - no breathing at all.  Of course he only had to hold his breath for 21 seconds...

Edited by sand101 2009-05-15 5:07 PM
2009-05-15 6:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Struggling with bilateral breathing, well breathing in general
Force - 2009-05-15 2:51 PM

Donskiman - 2009-05-15 10:36 AM
....

I'm not so sure I agree about people swimming at 1:50/100 having major issues. At a pool tri I observed last year 80% or more didn't swim that fast.


Thanks for saying so, I was beginning to get down on myself...


When I said, "severe stroke issues", I didn't intend it to be negative. I just meant the swimmer has a lot of room for improvement in technique. I think that should be good news to those currently swimming 1:50/100 and why I believe a high quality swim coach is so important.

Here is why I believe what I said to be true.

I swam competitvely from age 5 to age 12 and was competitive on a national basis for my AG. So my technique was good from day one.

I didn't swim at all again until age 26 when I took up triathlon which I did from April 1988 to October 1995. I just looked up an old workout from 07/06/92 where I swam 500 yards in 6:04 at sea level. I can't find my '93-'95 records as they're boxed in storage somewhere and they'll just depress me anyway.

After October 1995, I didn't swim a single stroke again until 04/21/07 (11.5 years).

So surely I had zero swim fitness on 04/21/07. Before I did my first time trial (on 05/09/07), I swam 6,450 yards total over 8 workouts. My first TT was in my 9th swim workout (05/09/07). I did 325 yards in 5:01 which is a 1:33/100y pace and it was at 9,600' altitude. I hadn't achieved any significant swim fitness. IMO, that 1:33/100 pace was simply a result of good technique built into my muscle memory.

Therefore, it's my opinion that if someone with good technique can swim 1:33 without significant fitness, then someone who is swimming 1:50 after a lot of swim workouts must have significant technique issues.
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