General Discussion Triathlon Talk » traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out) Rss Feed  
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2009-10-12 9:00 AM

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Elite
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Subject: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
basically i have 4 weeks left to my 1st HIM Nov 8th.  its really only 3 weeks before the last week being a taper.  but it seems that the plan has a monster brick:

swim 50 min
bike 2:20 hr
run 1:20 hr

this is right before the taper week.  all i want is to be as rested as i can possibly be before the race on the 8th.  would a brick this size 1 week out really help or hinder me?


2009-10-12 9:13 AM
in reply to: #2454710

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Master
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
No way would I do it... That's longer than the race would be!(thanks to the swim)

Edited by smilford 2009-10-12 9:13 AM
2009-10-12 9:23 AM
in reply to: #2454740

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Elite
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
smilford - 2009-10-12 9:13 AM No way would I do it... That's longer than the race would be!(thanks to the swim)


that is what i thought. 

well maybe it would be for you but for me no 

however i think that 1 week prior to race a long brick like that wouldn't generate any benefit.  what if i cut the times in half?  or maybe something like this

30 min swim
1:20 bike
45 min run

this is a 2.5 hr training workout and then i do a full taper in the week prior?
2009-10-12 9:28 AM
in reply to: #2454710

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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
I'd cut the swim and run down but keep the bike that length or longer even. Maybe do 25' run off bike and swim probably doesn't matter as much but not longer than you expect your 1.2 to take.
2009-10-12 9:39 AM
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
Did you say that workout is right before the taper starts? So, I'm guessing that would put it somewhere like 8 - 12 days before the race?

I see no real benefit, other than perhaps a psychological benefit from knowing you can cover the distance, from doing a workout like that so close to your race. It's not long enough to gain any real training adaptation from what I understand (maybe one of the coaches will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong).
2009-10-12 10:05 AM
in reply to: #2454798

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Elite
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
jsnowash - 2009-10-12 9:39 AM Did you say that workout is right before the taper starts? So, I'm guessing that would put it somewhere like 8 - 12 days before the race? I see no real benefit, other than perhaps a psychological benefit from knowing you can cover the distance, from doing a workout like that so close to your race. It's not long enough to gain any real training adaptation from what I understand (maybe one of the coaches will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong).


this workout would be 7 days before my race.  this is sunday 1 week prior to the race.  from what i have read etc etc.  most of the time i see that exact same thing its too late to get major fitness benefit.  i am using BT HIM 12 week bridge. 

i have a big brick this weekend and then this one.  i just think this is simply too much before a race.  if someone can chime in and tell me yes follow the plan....this makes sense i will do the full workout otherwise i plan on cutting it down to 2-2.5 hrs.

maybe keep it:

30 min swim
2:00 hr bike
1 hr run

i think pushing it past 4 hrs will just simply cause me to recover longer and i really want to be rested 100%. 


2009-10-12 2:32 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
so what would some of the coaches do?
2009-10-12 2:40 PM
in reply to: #2455584

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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)

That's a similar brick to what the BT plan has TWO weeks before the race.

B: 2h 30m
R: 1h 40m
S: 3000.00 Yd
45m


My honest opinion is that it won't make a difference either way.  It's not going to help much to do it, and you won't lose much by not doing it.

I also think that at this point in your training if you can't recover from this brick workout during a week of tapering, you may be undertrained anyway.  I really don't think doing the workout will leave you 'unrested' for the race.

I would probably avoid doing a century or a 20 mile run or race the previous weekend, but this workout doesn't seem like it's too drastic to recover from, IMO.

2009-10-12 9:03 PM
in reply to: #2455609

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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
Aikidoman - 2009-10-12 2:40 PM

That's a similar brick to what the BT plan has TWO weeks before the race.

B: 2h 30m
R: 1h 40m
S: 3000.00 Yd
45m


My honest opinion is that it won't make a difference either way.  It's not going to help much to do it, and you won't lose much by not doing it.

I also think that at this point in your training if you can't recover from this brick workout during a week of tapering, you may be undertrained anyway.  I really don't think doing the workout will leave you 'unrested' for the race.

I would probably avoid doing a century or a 20 mile run or race the previous weekend, but this workout doesn't seem like it's too drastic to recover from, IMO.



personally i think i will recover quick enough.  i just want to make sure i am at 100%.  as far as what you said it wont do much either way, then i feel like why bother.

i rather then shorten the distances / time by a bit and do the workout at proper intensity.  right now the workout is 4.5 hr but i might just shorten to 3.5 hrs.  maybe keep the bike but shorten swim / run.


Edited by trix 2009-10-12 9:04 PM
2009-10-12 10:37 PM
in reply to: #2454710

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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)

trix - 2009-10-12 8:00 AM basically i have 4 weeks left to my 1st HIM Nov 8th.  its really only 3 weeks before the last week being a taper.  but it seems that the plan has a monster brick:

swim 50 min
bike 2:20 hr
run 1:20 hr

this is right before the taper week.  all i want is to be as rested as i can possibly be before the race on the 8th.  would a brick this size 1 week out really help or hinder me?

Hi Trix,

This is a plan that I've written - and this workout can be pushed back to two weeks out if you not comfortable with doing it 7 days out. I've had many people do this workout  a week out from their A race with a great result. They key is to keep the intensity in the specified zones - really, it's 40' of Zone 3 work, and another 10-12' of Zone 4 running. Not a lot in the way of intensity, but I do see where the volume might make you hesitant to try the workout. Like I said, try it two weeks out - the whole idea is to understand pacing and get the idea of how easy you should ride the bike in order to dial up the run every few miles.

Good luck with you HIM and if you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer them.  

2009-10-13 9:44 AM
in reply to: #2456366

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Elite
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
mikericci - 2009-10-12 10:37 PM

trix - 2009-10-12 8:00 AM basically i have 4 weeks left to my 1st HIM Nov 8th.  its really only 3 weeks before the last week being a taper.  but it seems that the plan has a monster brick:

swim 50 min
bike 2:20 hr
run 1:20 hr

this is right before the taper week.  all i want is to be as rested as i can possibly be before the race on the 8th.  would a brick this size 1 week out really help or hinder me?

Hi Trix,

This is a plan that I've written - and this workout can be pushed back to two weeks out if you not comfortable with doing it 7 days out. I've had many people do this workout  a week out from their A race with a great result. They key is to keep the intensity in the specified zones - really, it's 40' of Zone 3 work, and another 10-12' of Zone 4 running. Not a lot in the way of intensity, but I do see where the volume might make you hesitant to try the workout. Like I said, try it two weeks out - the whole idea is to understand pacing and get the idea of how easy you should ride the bike in order to dial up the run every few miles.

Good luck with you HIM and if you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer them.  



thanks mike, actually i really like the plan.  although it is swim heavy and i had trouble sometime keeping up. 

i will go ahead with this brick as scheduled and maintain the zones just as you suggested.  appreciate the input.


2009-10-13 10:04 AM
in reply to: #2456847

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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
personally if i were in your shoes.

i would drop the swim, cut the un down to 30 min tops, and maybe add to the bike.

OR

do a sprint race the week before.
2009-10-13 10:11 AM
in reply to: #2456889

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Elite
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
newbz - 2009-10-13 10:04 AM personally if i were in your shoes. i would drop the swim, cut the un down to 30 min tops, and maybe add to the bike. OR do a sprint race the week before.


thanks.  that was actually a suggestion by a friend of mine who has done several HIM's.  (the sprint)
2009-10-13 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)

Trixie - here is a condensed version as well. There are MANY options when training and sometimes you run into problems when there is a plan written for the masses and a good reason why you should also ask for advice - like you did - or try to work with a coach one-on-one.

Swim -stays the same, bike only do one round of 40/20, so the bike becomes 1:00 less, then just do the run off the bike, not the run before as well.

So, 50' swim, 1:20 bike, 40' run. That's still a 3 hour workout.

A sprint the week before - an option, but not really a good one. You aren't going to be going that fast in the HIM, so there is no correlation in pacing and effort. Also, within 10 days of an event, your workouts need to be race pace to get you familar with the pacing - and lastly, I would hate to see anyone get injured or crash in a sprint a week before an A race.

2009-10-13 10:54 AM
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
let me clear up my reasons for a sprint the week before.

i am not trying to get a half paced workout in ,and frankly for me, if i dont have the pacing odwn at that point, the workout 7 days out will do nothing.

i am using it as a hard 50 min workout, to make sure bike is in working order, ect. then an easy week into the race. having the hard workout/race keeps me from doing too much in the week leading into the half.

i prefer to do my longer race type workouts 3-7 weeks out, but that again is simply personal pref and i am sure both work.
2009-10-13 11:03 AM
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over a barrier
Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
I would do what the author of the plan/program tells you


2009-10-13 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)

newbz - 2009-10-13 9:54 AM let me clear up my reasons for a sprint the week before. i am not trying to get a half paced workout in ,and frankly for me, if i dont have the pacing odwn at that point, the workout 7 days out will do nothing. i am using it as a hard 50 min workout, to make sure bike is in working order, ect. then an easy week into the race. having the hard workout/race keeps me from doing too much in the week leading into the half. i prefer to do my longer race type workouts 3-7 weeks out, but that again is simply personal pref and i am sure both work.

That's fine and if it works, do it. There is science that says any workout done within 10 days of your workout will NOT benefit you for your upcoming race. So, why waste that energy on a sprint, when you can use that energy on race day? The other point is, try that 40/20 workout sometime - it emphasizes how important it is to take the first half of the bike easy. The first time I did this pacing workout, it helped me shave about 15 minutes off my HIM time, and for me, that's huge - going from 4:50 to 4:3x. There is a lot of merit to this workout, or I wouldn't have put it in the program. As a matter of fact, I learned of this workout from a 6 time Hawaii Ironman Champ. ;-) So, I know it beneficial.

Now, a sprint or OLY two weeks out, might be beneficial, but a week before, I just don't see the point.

2009-10-13 11:20 AM
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
my thoughts:

first, i need the race results as much as i need an extra placing in the half a week later (ie if i can win the sprint, and only lose a spot in the half, if any, due ot the workout that is a success in my book and i get to walk away with a paycheck).

second, i'll give it a shot before a longer race, or big race rehersal workout next season and see how it goes, i am always open to learning new things/methods, as they can only help in my own racing/coaching, as even if i dont always agree or do things that way, knowing how others go about it and knowing what wont work/i dont like ect, is half of the battle.

third, i think saying you know something works because a fast person used it does not mean much other than they beleived it was true.

2009-10-13 11:33 AM
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Expert
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)

Is the brick supposed to be one right after the other?

The reason I ask is I was recently reading about a workout similar to this but you would essentially rest/eat/drink a little between each event. 

 

Edit: I'm quite sure Mike Ricci has a method to his "madness" and would follow his advise.



Edited by Rencor 2009-10-13 11:35 AM
2009-10-13 12:23 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)
mikericci - 2009-10-13 11:08 AM

newbz - 2009-10-13 9:54 AM let me clear up my reasons for a sprint the week before. i am not trying to get a half paced workout in ,and frankly for me, if i dont have the pacing odwn at that point, the workout 7 days out will do nothing. i am using it as a hard 50 min workout, to make sure bike is in working order, ect. then an easy week into the race. having the hard workout/race keeps me from doing too much in the week leading into the half. i prefer to do my longer race type workouts 3-7 weeks out, but that again is simply personal pref and i am sure both work.

That's fine and if it works, do it. There is science that says any workout done within 10 days of your workout will NOT benefit you for your upcoming race. So, why waste that energy on a sprint, when you can use that energy on race day? The other point is, try that 40/20 workout sometime - it emphasizes how important it is to take the first half of the bike easy. The first time I did this pacing workout, it helped me shave about 15 minutes off my HIM time, and for me, that's huge - going from 4:50 to 4:3x. There is a lot of merit to this workout, or I wouldn't have put it in the program. As a matter of fact, I learned of this workout from a 6 time Hawaii Ironman Champ. ;-) So, I know it beneficial.

Now, a sprint or OLY two weeks out, might be beneficial, but a week before, I just don't see the point.



thanks mike.  i actually decided i might try this workout just like its in my calendar.  its my first HIM and i followed your plan as close as I could thus far.

I actually am using your plan for an olympic race i belive its a 12 week olympic race plan.  but i think i will sign up for coach 1 on 1 so i can get alot more feedback. 

thanks guys.  much appreciated and puts me at ease....
2009-10-13 12:25 PM
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Subject: RE: traing plan question HIM (plan making me nervous 4 weeks out)

I like what Mike said at the end.  With a shorter ride and a short run but with better intensities.  Curious at this also considering I'm sure I'll be doing the same next season.



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