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Average House hold income
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2009-12-13 8:54 PM
in reply to: #2556799

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
CraigT - 2009-12-13 5:44 PM I have a theory about the average incomes of triathletes being high.  Many people think that triathlons attract people who are high wage earners.  However, I don't really see it that way.  I think it has more to do with the mentality of the person.  I think people that are driven to do something like triathlon are also driven in other areas in their life.  That drive leads to a higher than average income.  I know personally I am WAY more competitive and driven to do well in my job than I am at competing in triathlons.  Luckily for my wife and kids, I am also much better at my job than triathlons otherwise we would be living in a van down by the river.   


Totally agree.  I think the money thing is just a coincidence.   I don't see triathlon costing much more than rock climbing, scuba, skydiving, golf, or any other equipment/fee intensive sport.  I think it has a lot more to do with the competitiveness in the workforce (for those with competitive type careers).    I also think that stat about income was about long course triathletes.  This is evident by looking at the bikes at an IM vs looking at the bikes at a sprint.  By far the % of >$2500 bikes is higher.


2009-12-13 11:41 PM
in reply to: #2556799

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
CraigT - 2009-12-13 9:44 PM  I am also much better at my job than triathlons otherwise we would be living, with Blairrob, in a van down by the river. 


    Yup. You better not snore.

  I used to be an Regional Director for a bank and had about 150 employees. When I was there the two biggest issues I had with staff were over the casual Fridays dress code (!?) and the 'how come Suzy got a bigger raise than Billy' thing. Some people talked about their raises, salaries, and bonuses, and then they bitched. Cripes. I've found little that causes more enmity between co-workers, and, sometimes, neighbours than money. I think that's why many of us growing up never heard it discussed, and why we don't now. I'm close with my good friends, see them regularly, and travel with them, but we have never discussed our incomes or our finances in general, other than discussing investment ideas.

   
ETA- living arrangments by the river       
    



Edited by blairrob 2009-12-13 11:43 PM
2009-12-14 12:04 AM
in reply to: #2555713

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
Have been at the low and (near) high ranges on the poll, all I can say is that you adjust to the income level that you make, and you find a way to do the things that you want to do.

ETA: Entrepreneurs stand to have a top end earnings of way more than lawyers and doctors. Not earning enough? Start a business...


Edited by AdventureBear 2009-12-14 12:06 AM
2009-12-14 1:14 AM
in reply to: #2556681

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
LittleCat - 2009-12-14 8:42 AM I grew up in a house where you didn't discuss three things with strangers-Politics, religion or income.


I was raised the same. I think it says as much about our generation as anything.

On a similar note, I'm concerned about the use of Facebook. I can't believe what some people publically declare!
2009-12-14 6:45 AM
in reply to: #2555713

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
My household income is in the range stated by the article, but there's no way I could afford a nice $8kSpecialized S-Works Stumpjumper like I wish I could! haha
2009-12-14 8:16 AM
in reply to: #2555713

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income

I think people get too depressed when they don't make what others make. If my wife didn't stay home we would probably reach 100K combined. I constantly have to walk a thin line convincing my wife that we are not poor, but still keeping her thrifty.

It's about priorities. We don't have cable, but I set aside $700/year for tris. We clip coupons, but we bought great seats for Phantom of the Opera because she really wanted to go. We live in a smallish (by today's standards) house in need of work, but we take some kind of vacation every year.

We are happier now with less money and more mouths to feed.



2009-12-14 9:22 AM
in reply to: #2556895

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
sax - 2009-12-13 9:54 PM
CraigT - 2009-12-13 5:44 PM I have a theory about the average incomes of triathletes being high.  Many people think that triathlons attract people who are high wage earners.  However, I don't really see it that way.  I think it has more to do with the mentality of the person.  I think people that are driven to do something like triathlon are also driven in other areas in their life.  That drive leads to a higher than average income.  I know personally I am WAY more competitive and driven to do well in my job than I am at competing in triathlons.  Luckily for my wife and kids, I am also much better at my job than triathlons otherwise we would be living in a van down by the river.   


Totally agree.  I think the money thing is just a coincidence.   I don't see triathlon costing much more than rock climbing, scuba, skydiving, golf, or any other equipment/fee intensive sport.  I think it has a lot more to do with the competitiveness in the workforce (for those with competitive type careers).    I also think that stat about income was about long course triathletes.  This is evident by looking at the bikes at an IM vs looking at the bikes at a sprint.  By far the % of >$2500 bikes is higher.


I don't think rock climbing is a very expensive activity, at least not after you build your rack up.  Sure, you can always get more protection, but there is no entry fee.  I think that's why so many young climbers are out there, living on next to nothing.  I do think many of them are very competitive, and so in that way, they are like triathletes.

Scuba is sort of the opposite - rather expensive, since you not only need the gear, but need to maintain it and unless you only do shore dives, pay for a boat every time out.  But my experience of divers is that there is not a strong competitive element, unless you get into the hard core tech and deep divers. Diving tends to promote a calm, still pattern to improve air use.  For me, it makes a nice counterpoint to my other activities.
2009-12-14 9:39 AM
in reply to: #2556681

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
LittleCat - 2009-12-13 5:42 PM I grew up in a house where you didn't discuss three things with strangers-Politics, religion or income.


I always found this kind of thinking kind of strange.  If you are firm and educated in your choices of religion and politics you should be more than willing, even excited and pasionate about discussing them.  I find that those who don't want to discuss them are too lazy to learn or analyize their beliefs.  They are not sure exactly why they believe what they do, but they are comfortable in their blind bliss.  They are afraid to see a new truth or reality that may chalenge their ignorance.  I am a Christian and a Libritarian and love discussing other views with both informed and uninformed people.

As far as the income part, every couple of years something like this thread causes me to think about "what do I make in a year".  I am sure this is strange to some, but I am a business owner and it is impossible to figure.  Income can be shifted year to year, fair market value of assets goes up and down (too much down lately), and then there are the expenses that swing from personal to the business.  My wife and I just keep doing what we love since we both enjoy our work we don't really have "jobs".   Since we share homeschool duties the only arguments are who gets to work more at their business.
2009-12-14 9:44 AM
in reply to: #2555937

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
I know people always say that...but I guess I've never understood the taboo. I mean, some people make more than I do, some make less. Fact of life.
2009-12-14 9:57 AM
in reply to: #2557365

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income

I guess I'm in the minority that I don't care if you strangers know my salary, but I do not let my IRL friends, family or colleagues know.  It would cause jealousy in my family and I've only ever known it to cause strife at work.   Of course I've always worked in private industry where salaries were not regulated or published.  I would LOVE to know the salaries of my friends in the same profession, as a way to better prepare for future job interviews, though.

My husband and I are dinks and have pretty good job and seems to me like we have a bunch of money, although I am sure we're just in the middle.  We also live in a middlish expensive place (Minneapolis area).  Median home price was a bit over 200K for a while, although that's dropped.  I always laugh watching House Hunters in places like Atlanta.  I tell my husband we can live in a mansion there, for the same price as our very modest 50s ranch.

And by the way, scuba is cheap compared to triathlon.  I got into scuba first and was so mad about the prices of regulators and other equipment.  Then I turn around and enter a sport where my first beginner bike purchase was twice the cost of a regulator.  Oh well.    SCUBA trips are def more expensive (for me and husband), but the training and gear are a cinch. I expect to be using the same stuff for at least a decade.



Edited by BikerGrrrl 2009-12-14 9:59 AM
2009-12-14 10:08 AM
in reply to: #2555713

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
Waiting to check the box till after my CEO's meeting with the big guy in the Oval Office today. Looks like it has large potential to drop me down a box .

I do think tri's are crazy expensive, though, compared to just running, which I came from. If I didn't make at least what I do now, I couldn't imagine getting into the sport.  


2009-12-14 10:09 AM
in reply to: #2555713

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income

In my opinion, an "Income" discussion is moot. Income is so relative and so many contributing factors play a part in your ability to support any given lifestyle.  I know plenty of people who make <$50K who have 5X the disposable inome of others making >$250K.  Geography, family, household finances (mortgage, loans, rent), taxes (property/income and otherwise).  Consider these factors...

Texas residents do not pay state income taxes
North Carolina residents enjoy some of the lowest property taxes in the country
An individual living in NJ, but work s in NYC has to pay income taxes on both sides of the fence, while dealing with the nations highest property tax rate.
A modest 1800 sqft home in Arkansas can cost as little as $85K, the same house in the NY Metro is more than $500K

I am sure a few of you know people who lease $50K vehicles, and rent lavish apartments, wear designer clothes and maybe even dropped $10K on a sweet tri-bike. I'm sure they make a decent living, but probably have a mountain of cc debt, hold no assets, nor have savings.  But hey, they sure look rich!  

All I'm trying to say is that everything is relative to each individuals situation.  Analyzing income alone is like asking Macca what tire pressure he used to win Kona, a drop in the bucket of the big picture.  

This rant is brought to you by, the great state of New Jersey... a hand in your pocket at every turn! 

2009-12-14 10:23 AM
in reply to: #2555713

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
Wife and I fall right around the average though we'd do a lot better if she worked more than part time (for the record I support her part time choice). Even though we live in NJ (I do love it by the way) we tend to have more available $$ than most who make more than us as we've made good, practical decisions on housing, cars, etc. through the years.
2009-12-14 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
I started tri as a college student. Once I saved enough for my first bike, I was set. Even with negligible income, you can do a few local races each year. Just requires budgeting, scrimping, and knowing what you really want to do with your money. Training, for the most part, is free! Having access to the student rec center pool helped a lot though.

I am typically very open about how much I make. But I've recently stuck my foot in my mouth in that area so I'm starting to not mention salary unless someone asks. It's too often considered a measure of what you're worth or how hard you work.
2009-12-14 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
I'm a graduate student and get a very small yearly stipend.  Fortunately, my husband has a good job.  We make enough to be comfortable, but can't be very extravagant.  I'd love a more expensive bike or to get to take lots of trips to races, but it doesn't work out that way for me.  I'm happy with my life and that's what matters. 
2009-12-14 10:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
Just a thought...but...if you never talked about money growing up, and if you never talk about it now, how are you supposed to learn about it.  I mean really, you are constantly guessing and experimenting.  You never really know what you can make in any given profession...it just sounds ridiculous.





...are we moving this to COJ yet?




Edited by sax 2009-12-14 10:53 AM


2009-12-14 11:15 AM
in reply to: #2557390

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
BikerGrrrl - 2009-12-14 7:57 AM

I guess I'm in the minority that I don't care if you strangers know my salary, but I do not let my IRL friends, family or colleagues know.  It would cause jealousy in my family and I've only ever known it to cause strife at work.   Of course I've always worked in private industry where salaries were not regulated or published.  I would LOVE to know the salaries of my friends in the same profession, as a way to better prepare for future job interviews, though.

I'm with you on this.  Except I don't care if my family knows what I make.  Coworkers and close friends, it's not a topic.  "the public" I don't care.  If anything, it's to dispel the belief that architects are rich lol.

I think people get too depressed when they don't make what others make.


A little HR theory:  money is a hygiene factor.  Like a clean, safe work environment.  Hygiene factors keep you from going to work (i.e. get you down at the idea of working).  If your work is unsafe, you're not going to want to go to work.  Likewise, if you feel your not making enough for your job (or enough to keep up with the Joneses), your not going to want to go to work.  The lack of hygiene factors leads to dissatisfaction but when hygiene factors exist, satisfaction doesn't.

Money does not cause satisfaction, only dissatisfaction.

Motivators are things like challenges, recognition, responsibility.  Motivators cause satisfaction AND the lack of them causes dissatisfaction.

OK, enough about Herzberg's Two Factor theory...

bear is correct its hard to average or say whats high or not. man i would be rich if i made 130. i make 55 a year my wife is a stay at home mom with 2 kids and we do great, nice 2 story home i paid 44 grand for. but its 15 degrees and central indiana sucks.


Just to make a point, I make about the same, my wife stays home with the kid and goes to school.  We rent and could barely make ends meet late mid year when she left her job.  And I live in the cheap populated part of California (Sacramento area).  There are cheaper parts of CA - like everywhere north of me, in the mountains or desert - but no one lives there.

But, when she did work, the only difference with how we live now is that I had a 5 year old car sitting around while I biked to work Cool .   Even though we were in the next bracket up.
2009-12-14 11:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
mchubri` - 2009-12-14 11:09 AM

In my opinion, an "Income" discussion is moot. Income is so relative and so many contributing factors play a part in your ability to support any given lifestyle.  I know plenty of people who make <$50K who have 5X the disposable inome of others making >$250K.  Geography, family, household finances (mortgage, loans, rent), taxes (property/income and otherwise). 

....

All I'm trying to say is that everything is relative to each individuals situation.  Analyzing income alone is like asking Macca what tire pressure he used to win Kona, a drop in the bucket of the big picture.  



x2!  What starts out as a relatively good number on my top line bleeds off 30%+ to the govt, 35%+ to the ex, and another 10% for an au pair because I've got to travel for a living as Detroit's job market is non-existent.  That leaves 25% or less for the good guy.  

Small numbers rock.  

2009-12-14 11:32 AM
in reply to: #2555713

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
I have quite a few jobs.  Here is my list:

CEO
Nurse
Pshychologoist
Account
Personal Chef
Taxi
Janitor
Nanny
Personal Assistant
Teacher
Auto Mechanic
Laundry Attendant
Computer Operator
Logistics Anaylst
Interior Desiginer
Event Planner
Groundskeeper


I do this all pro bono.... I'm a stay-at-home mom.Laughing

2009-12-14 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
Does income matter to this site? It obviously does to some, but I would suggest it doesn't matter a lick here. Some of my friends make more that I do, some make less. It is never a measure of your true worth...

Mike
2009-12-14 1:37 PM
in reply to: #2555713

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
I worked out I spent about $250 last year to convert from being a mountain biker to my first triathlon, that includes 2 race entrance fees.
Tri can be done on a budget and still be a great pass time.
I found that it actually left me with as much evening family time as just cycling did last year.

I moved within the same company to US from UK as the job paid more, but with my wife not working while we are here we're actually a bit worse off in $$ terms, what we did gain is more of my time with the family and much more of my wife's time with the kids...
That's an overall increase in wealth in my eyes.


2009-12-14 3:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
BikerGrrrl - 2009-12-14 10:57 AM

...

And by the way, scuba is cheap compared to triathlon.  I got into scuba first and was so mad about the prices of regulators and other equipment.  Then I turn around and enter a sport where my first beginner bike purchase was twice the cost of a regulator.  Oh well.    SCUBA trips are def more expensive (for me and husband), but the training and gear are a cinch. I expect to be using the same stuff for at least a decade.



Well, the issue isn't really "how much would you pay on dry land"; it's "how much is a dependable breath of air worth at 100 feet?"

I think the gear issues are similar.  I did my first tri on a $200 bike that was already over 5 years old.  My next season I bought a bike for around $1k.  I used it for the next 15 years. Realistically, you can get away much cheaper with owning all you NEED for triathlon for less than $1k, if you buy a lower end bike.  But to own all you NEED to dive will be more.  Plus the real cost is not so much the initial gear acquistion (my buddy did it on the cheap with craigslist this year), but in the actual events. 

Of course, if you are like me, the initial acquistion of gear is just the starting point. First I got a mask, fins and snorkel.  Then I got a 7mm suit.  Then my own regs, tanks and BCD.  Then thinner suits. Then a camera.  Then pony bottles and spare regs.  An upgraded camera.  Back-up fins.  Datamask.  Etc, etc, etc.
2009-12-14 3:59 PM
in reply to: #2558453

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Subject: RE: Average House hold income

'Tis true, it can escalate.  We don't live in an area worth diving in (my opinion) so we actually still rent a regulator when we go.  Not to much the cost of the equipment anymore, but the ongoing upkeep.  We did pony up for dive computers before our last trip, which turned out to be a sound investment.  Still, the wet suit, BC, fins (with boots), mask, snorkel, still cost less combined than my first bike I think.    I refuse to dive anywhere cold, so we get by with less stuff (i.e. 7 mm suit, etc)

I never in my life thought I would own a wet suit, and now I have 3!  Crazy.  

gearboy - 2009-12-14 3:49 PM
BikerGrrrl - 2009-12-14 10:57 AM

...

And by the way, scuba is cheap compared to triathlon.  I got into scuba first and was so mad about the prices of regulators and other equipment.  Then I turn around and enter a sport where my first beginner bike purchase was twice the cost of a regulator.  Oh well.    SCUBA trips are def more expensive (for me and husband), but the training and gear are a cinch. I expect to be using the same stuff for at least a decade.



Well, the issue isn't really "how much would you pay on dry land"; it's "how much is a dependable breath of air worth at 100 feet?"

I think the gear issues are similar.  I did my first tri on a $200 bike that was already over 5 years old.  My next season I bought a bike for around $1k.  I used it for the next 15 years. Realistically, you can get away much cheaper with owning all you NEED for triathlon for less than $1k, if you buy a lower end bike.  But to own all you NEED to dive will be more.  Plus the real cost is not so much the initial gear acquistion (my buddy did it on the cheap with craigslist this year), but in the actual events. 

Of course, if you are like me, the initial acquistion of gear is just the starting point. First I got a mask, fins and snorkel.  Then I got a 7mm suit.  Then my own regs, tanks and BCD.  Then thinner suits. Then a camera.  Then pony bottles and spare regs.  An upgraded camera.  Back-up fins.  Datamask.  Etc, etc, etc.

2009-12-14 4:27 PM
in reply to: #2555713


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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
Both my husband and I work. I had a job that paid well but made me hope for a car wreck every morning so I could spend the day at the hospital instead of at work. It put us above the "average" household income bracket. But I was sometimes working about 60-80 hours a week, so I had a hard time fitting training in.

Then I quit my job without another one lined up, dropping our income by about a third. True, I had to be choosier about which races I entered, but I could train whenever I wanted, which in my opinion makes a much bigger difference than what bike you have.

Fortunately, I found another (lower paying) job, but it put us back in the "average." I still have no serious plans to upgrade my $700 road bike, and I have less flexibility for training. So I guess you could say in my case that a higher income makes me an even crappier triathlete.
2009-12-14 6:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Average House hold income
BikerGrrrl - 2009-12-14 4:59 PM

'Tis true, it can escalate.  We don't live in an area worth diving in (my opinion) so we actually still rent a regulator when we go.  Not to much the cost of the equipment anymore, but the ongoing upkeep.  We did pony up for dive computers before our last trip, which turned out to be a sound investment.  Still, the wet suit, BC, fins (with boots), mask, snorkel, still cost less combined than my first bike I think.    I refuse to dive anywhere cold, so we get by with less stuff (i.e. 7 mm suit, etc)

I never in my life thought I would own a wet suit, and now I have 3!  Crazy.  



My college roommate invited me to join a few of his coworkers a few years ago to go white water rafting.  I asked them if I needed to bring my own wetsuit.  One of them (who didn't know me) asked "Who has their own wetsuit?".  I responded "Who doesn't?? I've got around 5!"

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