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2012-10-09 4:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
dmiller5 - 2012-10-08 3:04 PM
edscoville - 2012-10-08 12:14 PM

Concrete is cement, water and aggregate making a solid object.

Asphalt is binder and aggregate that is temperature sensitive.  The hotter it is the softer the road.  Different binders are used in the north and south.

If new to running take a few weeks before doing sprints on Concrete. 

If I remember correctly the concrete has a higher frequency of causing shin splints when starting.

If you increase by 10% a week it shouldn't matter.

my what a fine collection of facts and opinions that are not correlated!  I'm a civil engineer, and you probably can tell the difference about which you're running on... just like you can probably tell the difference running on different types of grass. or grass vs a dirt trail. This doesn't mean one will be more likely to cause injury.  As far as actual deformation of the surface goes; lets say you are running at a 180 foot strikes per minute cadence.  If a foot was on the ground constantly (which it isn't, you are in the air with no feet on the ground while you are running, but we can ignore that for now) each foot strike would be 1/3 of a second (60/180 = 1/3).  How much do you really think you can compress a surface with a modulus of elasticity of at least 2 MPa in .333 seconds (actually far less) with your measly 150-250 lb body?  No discernable amount by the standards of your body's ability to feel.  On top of that, the compression of your shoes is probably significantly more, and varies more step to step than the actual compression of the asphalt surface.

its all in your heads guys.

As for the top pretty much fact as you know being a Civil Engineer.

Shin Splints no studies general opinion of observations from running in High School with indoor track in a High School without an indoor track.  A very long time ago.  From this experience I would say it makes a difference. 

10% is an opinion.

I would agree with your shoe opinion.

 



2012-10-09 6:56 AM
in reply to: #2819554

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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
I am one of those runners you may see on an asphalt road beside a concrete sidewalk.  I like the texture of the asphalt and I hate the uneven sidewalks that like to reach up and trip you.  I run at night and so the uneven sidewalks are not easy to spot.  Not much traffic out at 4:00 AM.
2012-10-09 7:54 AM
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2012-10-09 9:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
sand101 - 2012-10-07 7:26 PM

Funny, I figured you for a brimstone kind of guy.

When I can, I prefer to run on good intentions or the souls of the unrepentant, but those surfaces aren't available in most areas and weren't part of the original discussion.

2012-10-09 11:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
dmiller5 - 2012-10-08 4:17 PM 

I don't think you are nearly far enough along the stress strain curve for there to be a difference in the force transmitted back to the legs from the surface of the pavement.

again, it isn't about deformation(strain) of the surface.  

2012-10-09 11:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
Clempson - 2012-10-09 11:16 AM
dmiller5 - 2012-10-08 4:17 PM 

I don't think you are nearly far enough along the stress strain curve for there to be a difference in the force transmitted back to the legs from the surface of the pavement.

again, it isn't about deformation(strain) of the surface.  

right, but there isn't enough stress on the materials for them to behave differently. 



2012-10-09 12:16 PM
in reply to: #2819554

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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
This is like asking aero vs road helmet: does it really matter? Over a one mile TT the difference is minimal, spread that over 112 and it shows a significant difference. Translate this to running. Over the miles your body will deteriorate more over cement then asphalt.
2012-10-09 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
Took me a while to find the quote from an earlier thread, but here's a great post dealing with running surface materials:

mgalanter - 2012-01-12 10:35 AM

This is one of my favorite urban-running myths.

Yes - concrete is harder than asphalt which in turn is harder than packed dirt. But the difference in amount of deflection and cushioning between these surfaces is NEGLIGIBLE and makes no difference to runners.

In engineering terms, all these surfaces are significantly higher Yield Strength than a human foot (regardless whether its bare of shod in a running shoe). The human foot will deflect (or shoe rubber will compress) until its yield is equal to that for the material you are running on.

Unless you are a 500lb person with size 1 feet who pounds the ground with all his might there will be ZERO physical difference between running on concrete and asphalt and packed dirt.

Any difference felt is purely psychological.

*Note: running tracks made of fused rubber pellets, grass, and sand have different Yield Strength and/or modulus of elasticity - but that's is a different story

2012-10-09 12:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
mgalanter - 2012-01-12 10:35 AM

Unless you are a 500lb person with size 1 feet who pounds the ground with all his might there will be ZERO physical difference between running on concrete and asphalt and packed dirt.


This was my exact point in my earlier post without mentioning deflection as that should be an obvious point, but maybe that was just obvious to me.
2012-10-09 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
nolken - 2012-10-09 11:40 AM
mgalanter - 2012-01-12 10:35 AM

Unless you are a 500lb person with size 1 feet who pounds the ground with all his might there will be ZERO physical difference between running on concrete and asphalt and packed dirt.

This was my exact point in my earlier post without mentioning deflection as that should be an obvious point, but maybe that was just obvious to me.

It's obvious to me... I can not understand how anyone can think that the soft tissues of the human body will be more protected from running on asphalt over concrete. That there is some measurable difference to the body that translates into a more forgiving surface for the human body to pound itself onto a million times.

I run mostly on dirt, and any smooth, hardened dirt path can be just as hard to me as concrete. Maybe not to a simi, but to me it is. I run on dirt because most paths are not clean smooth hardened paths and there is soft dirt to run on. If anything I think it is slower and I "feel" faster on race day on hard surfaces... can't tell you if that is actually true. Other than that, I just happen to like running n the paths here that are dirt compared to the ones that are concrete.

And I also don't care what slope roads are "supposed" to have. Around my neighborhood, there are cracks, swells, trees, and bushes obstructing side walks. I run on the road for a while, but the crown/slope is pretty bad and bugs me. Well over 2%. The only recourse is to run in the middle of the road... which works for a bit until I feel stupid and go back to the crappy sidewalk... hence my desire to go run on dirt paths around me.

2012-10-09 7:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt vs Concrete: Does it really matter?
mrheathen - 2012-10-09 9:36 AM
sand101 - 2012-10-07 7:26 PM

Funny, I figured you for a brimstone kind of guy.

When I can, I prefer to run on good intentions or the souls of the unrepentant, but those surfaces aren't available in most areas and weren't part of the original discussion.

 

Nice!!



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