General Discussion Triathlon Talk » It's not the machine, it's the motor Rss Feed  
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2010-05-21 1:23 AM

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Subject: It's not the machine, it's the motor
Just had a nice conversation with the fitness director and fellow preschool parent at our local YMCA.  She was 3rd in her AG 30-34 at IM Wisconsin, and did a sub 12 hour IM at KONA in 2009. 

She rides a $1200 aluminum entry level FELT Tri Bike.  All original equipment. 

Just reminded me that you can be very good without the latest and greatest equipment. 

I need to work on my motor for a very long time before I worry about getting new equipment.

Edited by leftrunner 2010-05-21 1:26 AM


2010-05-21 1:34 AM
in reply to: #2872827

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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
Absolutely true... I bet spending $5k on personal coaching would make us all faster than if we spent it on a new bike. ;-)  But... I do like shiny objects.
2010-05-21 5:26 AM
in reply to: #2872827

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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor

Are you saying she wouldn't be faster on a P3 with 404's?

2010-05-21 6:48 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
nc452010 - 2010-05-21 6:26 AM

Are you saying she wouldn't be faster on a P3 with 404's?



Me thinks ye missed the point.....
2010-05-21 7:44 AM
in reply to: #2872827

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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor

I understand the point you're trying to make.  It's a good one.

BUT, you CAN buy speed.  That was my point.  My guess is she would be even faster on the setup I presented and slower on a MTB.

2010-05-21 9:30 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
nc452010 - 2010-05-21 6:26 AM

Are you saying she wouldn't be faster on a P3 with 404's?



She is probably going to wiin it with her POS bike!

u mad?


2010-05-21 9:40 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
nc452010 - 2010-05-21 6:44 AM

I understand the point you're trying to make.  It's a good one.

BUT, you CAN buy speed.  That was my point.  My guess is she would be even faster on the setup I presented and slower on a MTB.



But clearly that's not the OP's intention to discuss with the thread, so your comment is a little troll'ish.
2010-05-21 9:41 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
When Chrissie Wellington won her first Kona, she did it on a Cervelo P2C. She just said that it was the bike she felt most comfortable on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9P-QYzn5S4&feature=related

But, that doesn't mean anything. All it proves was that she was most comfortable on THAT bike...not that it's all about the engine. Obviously if the OP's fitness director rode a Felt DA-DI2 at $10K and it was a 58cm and fit her like chit, she would do worse than a well fitting aluminum bike.

The way I look at it is from an all things equal standpoint. There is undoubtedly going to be someone with an engine VERY similar to yours....and if you can best THAT person or people with better equipment, then more power to you.

Look back at your last results and see how much it would have taken to get that next position in AG or in the overall. My last race was 3 seconds for the next spot....I guess it just comes down to how much that spot means to you. To me, in any form of racing, it means everything.
2010-05-21 9:49 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
Very true. Its definitly all about the motor. My motor needs major work though. Im betting 90% of this site would fly by me on my p2 while riding a mountian bike with knobby tires. The only reasons I bought the p2 are as follows:

1. I could afford it
2. Knowing my wife will kick my a$$ if I dont ride it is good motivation to go out and train when I feel like sleeping in.

In hindsight, I think a coach would have been a better investment at this point in time, but I want to get some base miles under me before I hire someone to fine tune everything Im doing wrong.
2010-05-21 9:59 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
nc452010 - 2010-05-21 6:26 AM

Are you saying she wouldn't be faster on a P3 with 404's?



i concur.

i understand the OP point.  but i think bringing a knife to a gun fight is silly.  especially if you have a natural motor already.  why would you short change your self? 

now there are some things WORTH buying for speed.

1. clothing
2. fit
3. helmet
4. wheels (maybe depends on your speed IMHO)

if the bike FITS you then you will not see (at our level) any benifits from a alum vs carbon frame.  the components are only faster when being used.  the rest of the time they are just being carried around with you the same as the cheaper ones are.

i am currently trying to catch up to my bike as it is faster than the motor on it.  gives me little excuse for a bad t1 to t2 time......

a coach would be the best bang for the buck (maybe)
2010-05-21 10:03 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor

SLED DOG - 2010-05-21 10:59 AM
nc452010 - 2010-05-21 6:26 AM

Are you saying she wouldn't be faster on a P3 with 404's?



i concur.

i understand the OP point.  but i think bringing a knife to a gun fight is silly.  especially if you have a natural motor already.  why would you short change your self? 

now there are some things WORTH buying for speed.

1. clothing
2. fit
3. helmet
4. wheels (maybe depends on your speed IMHO)

if the bike FITS you then you will not see (at our level) any benifits from a alum vs carbon frame.  the components are only faster when being used.  the rest of the time they are just being carried around with you the same as the cheaper ones are.

i am currently trying to catch up to my bike as it is faster than the motor on it.  gives me little excuse for a bad t1 to t2 time......

a coach would be the best bang for the buck (maybe)

How is an entry level tri bike considered 'short changing' herself? 



2010-05-21 10:04 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
I'm at the point right now where why would I spend hundreds of dollars saving a few grams here and there, when I am ~20 pounds overweight.  Just thought I would throw that in there.
2010-05-21 10:12 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor

Good on her. I don't get the "short-changing herself" bit. She finished third in her AG and KQ'd on an entry level bike. She's my hero and I don't even know her! Maybe she has other priorities in life more important than shaving a few minutes off her bike split. Maybe she just likes the bike.

2010-05-21 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
But clearly that's not the OP's intention to discuss with the thread, so your comment is a little troll'ish.

Bryan....I have no beef with you.  And, I enjoy your presence here.  I'm not the only one who asked a pretty straight-forward question.  Wouldn't she be even faster on better equipment? 

From where my thread on HTFU - swimming got derailed, I'd say there was no room for throwing stones, based on where you live.

I meant no harm or malice towards the OP in my question.  It's pretty common sense we'd all be well-served to work on our engines.  It's also pretty common sense that there ARE ways to attain speed, otherwise (with the SAME engine).



Edited by nc452010 2010-05-21 10:18 AM
2010-05-21 12:18 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
I do think some people are missing the OP's point.

I took it as encouragement for those of us riding entry level bikes to keep working at it, because here's an example of someone who qualified for the most prestigious event in our sport without breaking the bank.  I did not take it as an argument against buying the latest bling, or that an entry level bike was as fast as a top of the line, wind tunnel designed bike.
2010-05-21 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
I think the point of the thread is:

There is people that cant do 12 hours in kona even when the nicest bike available.  And there is people that can do it with an entry level bike. Therefore, it is the engine not the machine



2010-05-21 12:46 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
tvmendoza - 2010-05-21 10:43 AM I think the point of the thread is:

There is people that cant do 12 hours in kona even when the nicest bike available.  And there is people that can do it with an entry level bike. Therefore, it is the engine not the machine



What if the engines are equal?
2010-05-21 12:58 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
then that would not be the point of this tread.
2010-05-21 1:02 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
I think the point is:
                             "you can be very good without the latest and greatest equipment. "

I have made some very expensive upgrades that have made no difference in my speed. I am still not convinced I am any faster on my carbon fiber tri-bike than my Duel. I actually have several bike splits from previous years that are faster on the aluminum frame than carbon.

I agree with the OP thought but also think that a $1200 entry level Felt is a lot less of a limiter than some of the POS bikes you see in transition areas.
2010-05-21 1:02 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
tvmendoza - 2010-05-21 10:58 AM then that would not be the point of this tread.


Ah, ok....so at what point in the engine's development does equipment become a factor? If ever?

And at what point is the equipment overkill? Is there a price point? Is a $2k bike ok but a $3K bike ridiculous? Or is it $5K?

2010-05-21 1:06 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
a_l_existence - 2010-05-21 10:04 AM I'm at the point right now where why would I spend hundreds of dollars saving a few grams here and there, when I am ~20 pounds overweight.  Just thought I would throw that in there.


That's what I always say... while I would love the carbon pedals and the carbon aerobars and what not... what I really need to worry about is my A$$ and the size of it.

Until someone can provide me with an aerodynamic carbon A$$, I will forgo the pedals and bottle cages... Wink


2010-05-21 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
pschriver - 2010-05-21 2:02 PM I think the point is:
                             "you can be very good without the latest and greatest equipment. "

I have made some very expensive upgrades that have made no difference in my speed. I am still not convinced I am any faster on my carbon fiber tri-bike than my Duel. I actually have several bike splits from previous years that are faster on the aluminum frame than carbon.

I agree with the OP thought but also think that a $1200 entry level Felt is a lot less of a limiter than some of the POS bikes you see in transition areas.


Plus the "entry level" Felt was a top of the line couple years ago...

2010-05-21 1:12 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
Whizzzzz - 2010-05-21 2:06 PM
a_l_existence - 2010-05-21 10:04 AM I'm at the point right now where why would I spend hundreds of dollars saving a few grams here and there, when I am ~20 pounds overweight.  Just thought I would throw that in there.


That's what I always say... while I would love the carbon pedals and the carbon aerobars and what not... what I really need to worry about is my A$$ and the size of it.

Until someone can provide me with an aerodynamic carbon A$$, I will forgo the pedals and bottle cages... Wink


This too...

why people want to save weight on the bike when they are still over weight, or close to it!
2010-05-21 1:15 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
camaleon - 2010-05-21 11:12 AM
Whizzzzz - 2010-05-21 2:06 PM
a_l_existence - 2010-05-21 10:04 AM I'm at the point right now where why would I spend hundreds of dollars saving a few grams here and there, when I am ~20 pounds overweight.  Just thought I would throw that in there.


That's what I always say... while I would love the carbon pedals and the carbon aerobars and what not... what I really need to worry about is my A$$ and the size of it.

Until someone can provide me with an aerodynamic carbon A$$, I will forgo the pedals and bottle cages... Wink


This too...

why people want to save weight on the bike when they are still over weight, or close to it!


Simple, because weight is weight....no matter where it comes from. So is aerodynamics.
2010-05-21 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: It's not the machine, it's the motor
Whizzzzz - 2010-05-21 2:06 PM
a_l_existence - 2010-05-21 10:04 AM I'm at the point right now where why would I spend hundreds of dollars saving a few grams here and there, when I am ~20 pounds overweight.  Just thought I would throw that in there.


That's what I always say... while I would love the carbon pedals and the carbon aerobars and what not... what I really need to worry about is my A$$ and the size of it.

Until someone can provide me with an aerodynamic carbon A$$, I will forgo the pedals and bottle cages... Wink


I would, but it would hurt my hand when I smacked it, therefore...no carbon A$$ for you.
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