What say COJ?.... 17 year old boy issues (Page 3)

Keri, oh no!  He's past the point of no return now.  Ya see, if ya played your cards right, he'd still have a fascination with airbrushed Size 2's with DD's  Talk about impossible to find!  Had that been his fascination, it would take him forever to find a girl!  At that age, no girl equals no worries. 

I think I can speak for a lot of guys around here, if there's no Playboy or Victoria's Secret available, the JC Penney catalog or even the rare photo of an attractive lady in the newspaper would do the trick.

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Put a filter on your computer NOW...porn is not something to play aournd with...people are destroyed because of this.  At 17, he is not mature enough.    www.safeeyes.com

I think his response to you reflected his attempts to separate in preparation emotionally for leaving.  I often tell students that part of the job of adolescents is to frustrate the parents the right amount - enough that they want you to leave, not so much that they want to kill you.

To me, the key issue is "plausable deniability".  As a parent, it is my job to ensure that you know and follow certain rules.  Some of them you, as the child/adolescent, will disagree with. If I have made it clear it is still my rule for my house, don't break the rule in an obvious fashion.  If you do, I will have to punish you.

I might also have responded to his comment about "acting like a 17 year old guy" by pointing out that just because the dog's instincts tell him to take food from the garbage doesn't make it OK, and that even the dog has learned not to do things like steal food off the table or poop in the living room. Surely he is smarter than the dog?  And if he is not mature enough to get his drivers licence (which you said in the thread is the case), what makes him think I would believe he is mature enough to look at naked pictures?  And finally, if he thinks he is making the case that he cannot change himself and that he needs external controls, we would be happy to send him to Liberty University (the one founded by Jerry Falwell), where the opportunities to act out in this way would be decreased significantly, and where there is a support group for compulsive masturbaters. After an onslought like that, I suspect he will turn tail and back down to "You're right, I'm sorry, it won't happen again".

A really tough topic and as a parent I have no idea what to suggest. I also feel completely unprepared for what the world throws at my children and how to prepare them.

My kids are 11 (son) and 7 (daughter) the last Triathlon magazine was the SWIM SUIT edition. A buddy purchased an annual subscription for me a few months back as a thank you gift. My son has just finished track and is beginning to get interested in triathlons.  So my mag arrives, while I'm away on a trip, during the regular nightly skype "how was your day" chat, he asks, "can open your Tri-mag and read it?"

I can assure you even though it said across the top "swim suit edition" - he really had no idea what that would mean! "Sure", I said. When I got home, two days later, I found the magazine to be degrading to all women. Most of those swim suits had nothing to do with triathlons, or training, and I don't think a "sexy sultrily" look makes you faster? Perhaps, if we all stand around with one hand beginning to pull off our pants our times would improve - clearly this has been a critical aspect of training I have been missing. Oh, that's right less than 10% were males?

If I was interested in soft porn my buddy wouldn't have acquired it for me! Seriously, males are known to be stimulated visually, and the marketing industry, and much of what comes at us under the guise of commerce is setting young boys up for complete failure in turning into men. There no question when you're 17 it's a tough age, but when you have years of being visually stimulated by marketing, the porn industry is happy to oblige. What industry refers to as good marketing is a ethical issue as there is a social injustice in the way women are depicted. How many swim suits would they sell from that marketing? And, is it worth the side effects on society?

I just wanted a place to read about Triathlons, training, and new equipment most of those pages had nothing to do with Triathlons (the editors just want to make money) and I will not renew the subscription. OK, I know I can move beyond those pages and they have no impact on me, since I'm so old. Yet, I don't live my myself. What "images" of women are my son and daughter interpreting, by seeing them?  And, the reality is they are too young cognitively too mange the complexities the situation presents.  

But, many would say - I am just and old and out of date.

Sorry for the rant.
 

 

Of course you were right, but a 17 year old is still a 17 year old. Hes one step above a raging boner. Talk to him and maybe consider buying him a Playboy. It would help him understand that his feelings and urges are ok but relieving them where it affects others is not healthy.

Don't apologize for the rant.  I don't believe you are old and out of date.  I don't know of too many parents who don't want their kids to stay innocent throughout their teen years...that said, it aint gonna happen.  Innocent in thoughts for them is impossible, innocent in actions is the goal.

The mention of only 10% being male...would it have been better if it was 50-50?  40-60??  I don't understand the complaint.  Magazines sell more magazines when they put out swimsuit issues pure and simple.  It's economics.  It's the same reason you don't see equal numbers of male and female strippers.

The bolded part is probably where I disagree most strongly.  Side effects on society?  People viewing women posing in swimsuits has a negative impact on society?  Yikes.  I think values in the western world (which includes keeping swimsuit issues alive and kicking) beats the alternative of places like Saudi Arabia's policies.  I don't think women are less valued here vs. there (no swimsuit issues there...legally anyway) 

I know it gets said a lot, but it's true.  Those that come down hardest on their kids and try to keep them 100% clean just set their kids up for harder falls down the road. 

My plan for my young kids is to pre-emptively strike!  Body knowledge, self-confidence, and respect for fellow human beings are obvious pre-requisites.  Age-appropriate sex ed. is very important.  Internet filters are also pre-requisites.  The system's not fool-proof because kids will hang out with other kids, and occasionally no matter how good a job you do getting to know their friends and their friends' parents, irresponsible parents will inadvertently allow your kids access to materials that are inappropriate. 

By the way, I'm a firm left-leaning believer in Equal Rights legislation...and I still support the right of magazines to display scantily-clad beautiful women.   
 

 

I agree with that part 110% and I've seen it first hand many many times. Friends that I knew in high school who were kept under lock and key by their parents are now almost out of control now that they're in college. It's almost like night and day the way some of them act now.

F1longhorn, totally!  That goes for alcohol as well...heck, anything!  Teenagers will almost always test the limits.  The kids I knew that dealt with life outside their homes the worst were the ones with negative or no parental involvement, and the ones with overbearing hard-azze$ for parents.    

btw, kerikadi, back to the original post, when did you first sit the boy down and go over the rules for the computer?  Was that something covered in depth?  Implied?  Was it reviewed when the computer was purchased?     

On a positive note, you said he was on there early in the morning...back when I was a teen NOTHING got me up early!  Take that as a positive that he was getting up early!    (Just a little humor there)  Poor kid must be embarrassed as heck!  To get caught like that must have been unbelievably embarrassing. 

We've had a computer in the house most of his life.  When he started using the computer we talked about rules.  When he got his FB account we talked the rules again - ie you can't be friends with people you don't know in REAL life!  No, you are NOT friends with Chad from Nickelback.
The first time he visited this site my husband and I sat him down, found out where he heard about it, talked about why we didn't want him visiting sites with any kind of pornography etc.  The rules were laid out and were clear.
He chose the morning because with a Mom, Dad, 3 sisters, a brother and a centrally located computer there isn't much privacy to be had.  And that is the way Mom likes it.  The boys have their own room and enough privacy but they don't have TVs or computers in their rooms.
We do have a great relationship and we talk about sex often.  I believe it is important to talk about sex regularly, not make a big deal out of it and avoid having THE talk, it is open communication.
I am sure he was embarrassed and I get that and know that is where the attitude came from, obviously still not OK.

I'm not against hot chicks in bikinis or pornography for that matter, I'm just not OK with my 17 year old viewing it on the family computer.  I'm down with the my house, my rules thing.  He's going to see pornography but I'm certainly not going to make it easy for him.

I agree with everything you did and are doing.  (as usual) 
If there were more parents like you it would be a nicer world.
Keep up the good work.

I definitely don't think you are out of line asking your son not to look at this stuff. First of all, it's your house, your computer, you pay the internet bills, etc. That alone is enough reason. Doesn't matter if he's 15 or 50, if you are paying the bills he needs to respect what you ask him to do or not do.

Second of all, pornography can be addictive, and it can cause problems for him later in his relationships with women. I am probably going to take some heat from this, but some (probably many) women do not appreciate their husbands/fiances looking at porn. Some men are so addicted that they can not stop without professional help. This is a very difficult situation to be in on either side, and I will tell you that I actually ended an engagement because my fiance could not/would not stop looking at porn. The more people look at it, the harder it is to stop. There are psychological/hormonal things that happen and sometimes it can even become difficult for a man to become aroused by a live, human person after becoming addicted to porn.

A site with some good info is http://www.socialcostsofpornography.org/ Check out the videos. I haven't watched all of them but I thought the one by Pamela Paul was extremely interesting. It's kind of long though. It might be good to watch with your son and kind of explain to him the risks he is taking by viewing this stuff. I'm not saying everybody turns out like this, or anything like that at all. It's just interesting.

You can get a software called Covenant Eyes, download it off the internet, and for a monthly fee every website that is viewed is reported to whatever email(s) you want it to go to. Also, if someone were to attempt to uninstall this software, the email addresses would also be notified that an uninstall code was requested. This software doesn't actually block anything, but it tracks every website and as far as I know there is no way to get around it. Each week a report is generated and sent to the email addresses with a list of any high-scoring websites that were viewed or searches that were done. Sometimes their scoring is a bit off but for the most part it works pretty well I think.

brynn, I checked out that site...but left quickly.  There was absolutely no p0rn there at all!    Just kidding, thanks for the link.

Isn't it kind of like alcohol though?  I can see restricting teens (heck, we won't win as parents, but it's the right thing to do to put up as good a defense as we can within reason)...but every single one of my friends (who seem to be quite well-adjusted and existing in healthy marriages) view p0rn occasionally...as does a majority of American males. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is sure, some people are going to overdo it...but there are folks out there who over-do lots of things:  computer games, web-surfing, shopping, the list goes on, and many folks blame those things for ruining relationships, when ultimately in the end it comes down to lack of self-control.
 

I totally agree - lots of people overdo lots of things. Some things are more socially acceptable than other things, but that doesn't make them any better.

But if we can explain to young people the dangers of, say, overindulging in alcohol, drugs, over spending, etc. then why not porn too? All of these things are things that we (I say we, but I don't actually have kids yet) try to protect our children from and teach them about. We can only keep them from it so long, and then hope that the things we taught them sunk in enough that they will make good choices when they leave the nest.

I personally don't agree with porn at all for many reasons, but I'm not saying we should like outlaw it or something. I don't drink alcohol anymore either, but it's fine with me if other people do it. I'm just saying, why not explain to him the risks of it also?

ETA: The video by Jill Manning is really good too and does talk about teenagers also. :)

Edited by brynn 2010-05-29 10:16 PM

You are correct.  I totally agree.
That's a level-headed approach.   
 

x2

I think this thing has mostly been "answered to death" but I wanted to jump in and say a couple of things:
1) Young males are gonna RIO.  Heck, older males are gonna RIO.  That's what we have Wednesdays for.
2) There is an appropriate place and time to RIO.  As a teen living in your parents house, you need to be at least a little discreet. 
3) I still remember the time I had to break it down for a co-worker friend of mine why her 15 year old son had started taking exponentially longer showers.
4) My biggest problem with internet porn is it deprives young people of developing their imagination.  If you can RIO thinking about the J.C. Penney underwear model, you are far better set up to think outside the box than the kid that just gets to click on whichever category he happens to be interested in. 
5) If you want to watch the alltime best discussion with a young boy about RIO, check out Uncle Andy's talk with young Shane after the plumber finds socks screwing up the plumbing when the lines get clogged (totally not safe for work, but hilarious).  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWzOQTFwRBE
6) In reality, the young man is most likely going to be living with someone else for a few more years (you, dorm roomies, etc.) so he needs to learn to be more discreet, but really, the activity is natural and essentially healthy (when, well, let's just say controlled - even though he is 17 and we know that status just does not exist at that young age in sexual terms).

OK - so now that I am done having a little fun at your expense (you will win in the end because I have two daughters at 15 & 16, and the last laugh will obviously be on me), let me just say that I believe you handled it correctly.  I thought your approach was sound and your further actions were right on.  I am quite sure that he was emberrased and that explains the attitude (I think we all feel better about justifying our actions with the "everybody does it" line when we regret being caught), but the fact remains that you are his parents and there should be a level of respect maintained at all times.  To be sure, most of us young men lose the recognition of that in the years colliding with raging testosterone and freedom, but it is interesting to note that it is really just on hiatus with our common sense.  Stick to your guns and keep loving and caring - and don't outsmart your common sense - and you will be fine.

There's John again...hitting the nail on the head!
When the pressure was on John, did he choke?
No, he wasn't afraid to address the issue.  He was no chicken. 

...and no, we don't change...at least not by 35! 

Uh oh.  
Better not let him see this thread then.  You have good intent on that, but soliciting advice from strangers on an internet forum will NOT help you make your point! 

Your house, your rules etc. But at 18 he will be able to legally BUY materials.  What then? 
Just sayin'.  

Makes me glad my kids are younger....