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2010-07-01 6:35 PM

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Subject: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
Was recently in a Trek store in columbus.  According to them, the Speed Concept bike as it is sold IS NOT race legal in sanctioned events!!!  The tri case must be removed and the areo bars on the one in the store also needed to be removed as they were also illegal. 

Rationale when asked, .... they made the bike tooo fast!


2010-07-01 6:37 PM
in reply to: #2956968

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
No, it's aero bars and "trunk" box are not UCI legal, that's all.
2010-07-01 6:41 PM
in reply to: #2956968

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
When I tried to clarify, the reply was any sanctioned event, TT, UAST.... at least what I was told when using the bike as is.  Nice aero bars, be damned if I spend $6,000 and have to change something just to race.

Edited by abrezo 2010-07-01 6:42 PM
2010-07-01 6:44 PM
in reply to: #2956968

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
abrezo - 2010-07-01 1:35 PM Was recently in a Trek store in columbus.  According to them, the Speed Concept bike as it is sold IS NOT race legal in sanctioned events!!!  The tri case must be removed and the areo bars on the one in the store also needed to be removed as they were also illegal. 

Rationale when asked, .... they made the bike tooo fast!


Where'd they come up with that tripe? The case and aerobars are illegal under the UCI. So unless you're racing in a time trial under UCI auspices there's nothing illegal on this bike for triathlon. If there was, Chris Lieto wouldn't be riding it.
2010-07-01 6:45 PM
in reply to: #2956981

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
abrezo - 2010-07-01 8:41 PM

When I tried to clarify, the reply was any sanctioned event, TT, UAST.... at least what I was told when using the bike as is.  Nice aero bars, be damned if I spend $6,000 and have to change something just to race.


Your LBS is wrong; the UCI is much more restrictive when it comes to bike setup than ITU (which is that basis for each National Governing Body's Competition Rules).  This is the same as the P4 waterbottle which is illegal for UCI competition but permitted in triathlon.

Shane
2010-07-01 7:17 PM
in reply to: #2956968

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
Okay, I will bite.

How is a blooming WATER BOTTLE illegal???


2010-07-01 7:22 PM
in reply to: #2957021

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
wrenling - 2010-07-01 6:17 PM

Okay, I will bite.

How is a blooming WATER BOTTLE illegal???


Ask Cervelo and the P4 water bottle . BANNED. It's not a water bottle on the SC, it's a "Gear Box" you can put stuff in....and acts as an aerodynamic fairing on the back of the bike. Same with the P4 water bottle, it's considered a fairing.
2010-07-01 7:26 PM
in reply to: #2957025

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
I think my brain just broke.
2010-07-01 7:41 PM
in reply to: #2957030

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
wrenling - 2010-07-01 6:26 PM

I think my brain just broke.


A fairing is an addition to the frame of the bike that facilitates air flow over the frame thus reducing it's drag. Try and keep up.
2010-07-01 7:49 PM
in reply to: #2956968

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal

I'm gonna ask a (probably) dumb question......

Why do the powers that be care about the design of a bike - in non-draft-legal racing?  What/who are they trying to protect?

Thanks.

2010-07-01 8:01 PM
in reply to: #2957039

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
bryancd - 2010-07-01 7:41 PM
wrenling - 2010-07-01 6:26 PM I think my brain just broke.
A fairing is an addition to the frame of the bike that facilitates air flow over the frame thus reducing it's drag. Try and keep up.


I do keep up! I battle for last place like you wouldn't believe! (It takes a lot of work you know).

Okay, so some genius figured if they shaped a water bottle thus and stuck it there they would actually manage to make the bike have a better air profile? Sweet. You have to love that kind of ingenuity. (Now I am wondering if they were designed to actually have water in them or not... the weight of the water vs the gain in loss of air resistence...)


2010-07-01 8:05 PM
in reply to: #2957047

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
nc452010 - 2010-07-01 5:49 PM

I'm gonna ask a (probably) dumb question......

Why do the powers that be care about the design of a bike - in non-draft-legal racing?  What/who are they trying to protect?

Thanks.



Because, most of the triathlon bikes out there are used by racing teams in ITT, TTT, etc., and that's what drives development, is the road racing market. Triathlon, while growing, is not really a primary market. Cervelo was the first company to really approach triathlon as a primary market.

John
2010-07-01 8:06 PM
in reply to: #2957063

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
wrenling - 2010-07-01 6:01 PM
bryancd - 2010-07-01 7:41 PM
wrenling - 2010-07-01 6:26 PM I think my brain just broke.
A fairing is an addition to the frame of the bike that facilitates air flow over the frame thus reducing it's drag. Try and keep up.


I do keep up! I battle for last place like you wouldn't believe! (It takes a lot of work you know).

Okay, so some genius figured if they shaped a water bottle thus and stuck it there they would actually manage to make the bike have a better air profile? Sweet. You have to love that kind of ingenuity. (Now I am wondering if they were designed to actually have water in them or not... the weight of the water vs the gain in loss of air resistence...)


Yeah, they spent hours in the wind tunnel going over all that stuff.

Before you get all wiggy and brain broke tho, realize that there are amateurs with deep pockets renting wind tunnels to optimize their position. Watch over on ST when Tom A. and Coggan get going on some of their debates on drag at different yaw angles and similar.

John
2010-07-01 8:09 PM
in reply to: #2957067

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Davenport, IA
Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
tkd.teacher - 2010-07-01 8:05 PM
nc452010 - 2010-07-01 5:49 PM

I'm gonna ask a (probably) dumb question......

Why do the powers that be care about the design of a bike - in non-draft-legal racing?  What/who are they trying to protect?

Thanks.



Because, most of the triathlon bikes out there are used by racing teams in ITT, TTT, etc., and that's what drives development, is the road racing market. Triathlon, while growing, is not really a primary market. Cervelo was the first company to really approach triathlon as a primary market.

John


Quintana Roo?
2010-07-01 8:14 PM
in reply to: #2957068

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
tkd.teacher - 2010-07-01 8:06 PM
wrenling - 2010-07-01 6:01 PM
bryancd - 2010-07-01 7:41 PM
wrenling - 2010-07-01 6:26 PM I think my brain just broke.
A fairing is an addition to the frame of the bike that facilitates air flow over the frame thus reducing it's drag. Try and keep up.


I do keep up! I battle for last place like you wouldn't believe! (It takes a lot of work you know).

Okay, so some genius figured if they shaped a water bottle thus and stuck it there they would actually manage to make the bike have a better air profile? Sweet. You have to love that kind of ingenuity. (Now I am wondering if they were designed to actually have water in them or not... the weight of the water vs the gain in loss of air resistence...)


Yeah, they spent hours in the wind tunnel going over all that stuff.

Before you get all wiggy and brain broke tho, realize that there are amateurs with deep pockets renting wind tunnels to optimize their position. Watch over on ST when Tom A. and Coggan get going on some of their debates on drag at different yaw angles and similar.

John


If I am wiggy its out of sheer appreciation of the geekery and science of it all... and the sheer sneakiness of trying to use something like a water bottle to accomplish it! (ST's... interesting. I did like today's tattoo thread. They are kind of like Fark on speed)
2010-07-01 8:16 PM
in reply to: #2956968

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
I'm assuming ITT is indiv. and TTT is team.  If that's the case, I'm still wondering why it matters?  Are they trying to protect previous records? 


2010-07-01 8:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
If it's illegal, shouldn't it be a "not-fairing"?....Wink
2010-07-01 8:46 PM
in reply to: #2957101

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
nvandyke - 2010-07-01 4:36 PM If it's illegal, shouldn't it be a "not-fairing"?....Wink


"unfairing"
2010-07-01 8:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
tri808 - 2010-07-01 8:46 PM
nvandyke - 2010-07-01 4:36 PM If it's illegal, shouldn't it be a "not-fairing"?....Wink


"unfairing"


the fair only comes once a year...
2010-07-01 8:50 PM
in reply to: #2957079

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
nc452010 - 2010-07-01 4:16 PM I'm assuming ITT is indiv. and TTT is team.  If that's the case, I'm still wondering why it matters?  Are they trying to protect previous records? 


my guess...and this is just a total guess...is that they want to keep TT bikes looking like bikes.  Without regulation, I suppose bike manufacturers would come up with some crazy designs that don't even resemble what the current bikes look like.

Maybe like how NASCAR has cars that sort of look like cars...but Indy cars don't look anything like what normal people drive on the road.

Again...just a guess...I really have no clue...and thanks for asking.
2010-07-01 9:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
wrenling - 2010-07-01 9:49 PM
tri808 - 2010-07-01 8:46 PM
nvandyke - 2010-07-01 4:36 PM If it's illegal, shouldn't it be a "not-fairing"?....Wink


"unfairing"


the fair only comes once a year...


Same with Santa... and that's just not fair.

I don't care what the shape of a bike might be, once I am on it, there is nothing aerodynamic about it.  Some rules are so lame.


2010-07-01 9:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
abrezo - 2010-07-01 7:35 PM Was recently in a Trek store in columbus.  According to them, the Speed Concept bike as it is sold IS NOT race legal in sanctioned events!!!  The tri case must be removed and the areo bars on the one in the store also needed to be removed as they were also illegal. 

Rationale when asked, .... they made the bike tooo fast!


By the way, are you talking about the Speed Concept 9 series?  I was looking at a Speed Concept 7 and didn't know what you were referring to until Bryan mentioned a "trunk."  The 9 series is the only one that seems to have something like that from what I have seen.


Edited by Pector55 2010-07-01 9:22 PM
2010-07-01 10:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
I also remember during the Tour de California that certain aero-bar geometries (like the "praying mantis") are illegal.
2010-07-01 10:41 PM
in reply to: #2957070

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
Sprint_DA - 2010-07-01 6:09 PM
tkd.teacher - 2010-07-01 8:05 PM
nc452010 - 2010-07-01 5:49 PM

I'm gonna ask a (probably) dumb question......

Why do the powers that be care about the design of a bike - in non-draft-legal racing?  What/who are they trying to protect?

Thanks.



Because, most of the triathlon bikes out there are used by racing teams in ITT, TTT, etc., and that's what drives development, is the road racing market. Triathlon, while growing, is not really a primary market. Cervelo was the first company to really approach triathlon as a primary market.

John


Quintana Roo?


I suppose I was thinking of primarily bikes, and had forgotten about QR. They did the original tri wetsuits as well, and a few other things, you're right.

John
2010-07-01 10:54 PM
in reply to: #2957252

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Subject: RE: Trek Speed Concept Not Race Legal
UCI are the same knuckleheads that created rules requiring frame geometry to be two triangles - in other words, outlawing bikes like the Lotus and Zipp.  Those bikes soon went out-of-manufacture because they were not profitable once they were removed from the high-end road cycling market.

The genius of the P4 water bottle is that it can be removed to make the bike UCI-compliant.  That allows Cervelo to keep selling a frame that triathletes want while retaining a bigger target audience.

Edit: also to my knowledge, the P4 bottle is only illegal in some UCI races, not all.  I don't know what the specific rule is.

Edited by spudone 2010-07-01 10:58 PM
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