Stage 15 *spoilers* (Page 4)

Don't know how good the translation is but it seem AS team director (Riis) places some responsibility on Andy:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fekstrabladet.dk%2Fsport%2Fcykling%2Farticle1379238.ece&sl=da&tl=en

I'm torn on this....

I know it's tradition and all...and there seems to be some unwritten code...but maybe AC will do away with all that.

Be a MUCH better race if the participants were actually racing instead of screwing around for three weeks and then settling it on a couple climbs and a TT.

Waiting for someone that crashed? WTF is that? Win the race, take advantage of everything.

Crashing and mechanical issues are part of racing. Hell, LUCK is a huge part of racing. Just ask LA this year.

Maybe AC is just handing the cycling world a little HTFU.

I think the big question is not whether or not AC should have waited...it's really whether or not that unwritten rule should exist in the first place. Just because others have done it in the past doesn't mean it is right.

If Schleck is clearly superior then we will find out in the next few stages. If AS finishes within 39 seconds of AC when it is all said and done then I would not feel all to good if I was AC, even though I have mixed feelings on what happened. I think Contador could have waited, lost time on Menchov and Sanchez and still beat them both in the GC. So if I were him I would have waited and worked to close the gap on the downhill. If he ends the tour a few minutes up then it would have made no difference to the outcome what happened today.

Versus put the video online:

Schleck's mechanical malfunction video:
http://www.versus.com/cycling/videos/andy-schleck-mechanical-malfun...

Up until today, I was a Contador fan.  Now I just think that he is a rat bass turd!  I just hope Andy kicks his azz!

Edited by Machiavelo 2010-07-19 7:03 PM

Interesting commentary that discusses the 'unwritten rules of cycling.'

Stage 16: Where is Miss Manners When You Need Her?
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2010/7/19/1576953/know-your-tour-stage-16...

Interesting.  I won't take sides here, because I do think AC was left with a tough decision with 3 and 4 taking off down the road,  but from that video, no way that AC does not know that there is something going on with Schleck, and likely it's the bike.  AS takes off, AC counters (but is still a ways behind, eta that's not even AC right behind him, AC is two riders back), AS slows way down, and is nearly stopping when AC comes by, (eta 2, AC actually has to swerve around to the left as AS is coming to a stop), AC then appears to accelerate.  And that's without race radio.  I simply don't believe AC when he says he didn't know.

Edited by ChrisM 2010-07-19 7:26 PM

After watching it again I am still on the fences as to what to think. As I said, if even current/former tour winners and team directors can't come to a general agreement, no wonder I am having such a difficult time as well. On one hand, I am all for fair play and on the other I like them racing, I also like AC, specially because I feel he has gotten unfair treatment from the US media and some fans due to the LA/AC episode last year and AC refusing to bow to LA, but that's another topic.

Anyway, I think the peloton will sort this out in the coming stages, if the general consensus is that AC should have waited at risk of Sanchez/Menchov gaining time on him they won't support AC at all. If they feel in general it was part of racing specially since it happen at the end of the climb, the race was on and what happened on stage 3, then nothing will be done.

Regardless, I think we are in for a treat and will see some fun stages and fireworks coming up in the next stages.

Ok, I made up my mind, he should have waited but I can't also blame he didn't considering it was in the heat of the moment and the danger it might have represented with Menchov/Sanchez in the mix. We'll see what happens next...

AC and his own words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdOJLuePexs

Thanks for posting that, Jorge.  It's good to hear AC comment directly, and state his belief in fair play -- plus remind folks that AS didn't wait in that earlier stage.  Some of the commenters claim this is just a PR stunt on his part, but I think it helps.

And I agree with you that the peloton will sort it out in the next couple days... will definitely be interesting!

I'm a total noob.  But, I have to ask....

How can the peleton straighten this out.....assuming they want to?

BTW.....AC apparently thinks he did something wrong.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdOJLuePexs&playnext_from=TL&videos=Sp-Y-C4T6Z8&feature=sub

Edited by nc452010 2010-07-19 9:30 PM

It's easy to apologize from the front, after the fact, with the Maillot Jaune across your shoulders.

I think he knew what he was doing, is afraid of AS over the next few days, and wanted as much time as he can get considering he will probably outdo AS in the TT.

It might be interesting to see Radioshack or one of the other teams with riders around 6-10 in the GC launch an attack, and see how much the peloton supports Astana. If they have to chase as a team without peloton support that is really going to take it out of them.

A Rabobank (4th and 6th in GC) and Radioshack (7th) agreement could be very interesting, especially if Saxo throws itself into it to deny Astana.

Just saw the podium ceremony, AC got booed pretty soundly. Evidently popular sentiment is against him.

This is most definitely the most interesting Tour I've seen in a long time...

John

First---huge thumbs up to Jorge----he's clearly a AC supporter and after much back and forth and research on his part he didn't just play "homer."

Second---I finally just got to see the stage replay on VS---I'm confused on the idea that AS is a horrible cyclist that can't descend as is posted here---he crushed the climb and then it was him pulling two other guys the rest of the way to the line---AC was working with a group---notice on the last sweeping turn AC even gives the push to the rider in front of him to let me know he's there?? 

I think AC should have checked up---as the rest of the group since you had the top 4 or 5 in the tour---I do wonder if AC was as confident as he always had seemed to be if he would have waited since he would've known that he could still crush him....

Finally it was well summed up by Vroomen...

I just watched the prime-time show. Here's how it looked to me:

Schleck attacked, and Vino chased. When AS's chain slipped, it looked to me like Vino sat up (and watched). But then Contador flew by. He went by Schleck, so he must have known there was something going on. (Generally, your biggest rival doesn't start a hard attack, then come to a complete stop.)

In the Contador/Menchov/Sanchez group --> Contador did keep looking around on the ascent. (Much more than Menchov or Sanchez were.) I assume that by then, he knew there was a mechanical issue.

I could NOT tell from the camera angles who was in front during the climb. I'm hoping that AC would have chosen to sit behind the other two. He did not appear to attack them though. Did he sit behind, or pull them up the hill? I couldn't tell. During the descent, Contador seemed to be behind Sanchez a lot - but Sanchez is known to be an excellent descender. Contador did push the pace at the end though. Was it to gain time against Schleck? Or is that something he does at the end of every stage?

Despite some of the comments here about Schleck's descending, I agree with Skippy74. I thought Schleck did a really good descent. At the top of the hill, I think he was with the Hesjedal/Leipheimer group. Yet he came in 26 seconds ahead of that group. In other words, those guys couldn't stay with him.

All of which goes to say - I'm conflicted. It's definitely not how I wanted to see this stage finish up though.

they could offer no help to astana who is required to chase now since they have the MJ. no1 will take a turn in front of AC to go up to attacks on the road. Alot of riders might attack to force his team to respond to tire them out. You could attack when he goes pee or goes through the feed zone. I see Caisse and possibly Rabo helping him out anyway as they were involved especially caisse as hes spanish and they dont care about team colors

What can the peleton really do? Most riders will be off the back when the attacks occur. All Contador has to do is mark Schleck, which is not easy to do, but at this point that basically is all he needs to do. Schleck has more to lose since he can not TT like the others. If Sanchez or Menchov attack, Schleck has to respond or he is going to move down on GC and Contador just has to follow. Contador has 2 minutes to play with, Schleck can not afford that.

AS has two more chances to put signifant time into AC, if he does not get close to 3 minutes before that TT then the fat lady is going to start warming up. 

Oh yes, and tomorrows stage is going to be hard for AS to put time on AC with that downhill finish so it pretty much boils down to stage 17.

Edited by gerald12 2010-07-19 11:28 PM

Ask Cadel Evans how that worked out for him in 2008.

Isn't everything on here speculation? Unless you have proof that Contador is a vastly superior descender to Schleck, then your opinion is speculation as well.

Sanchez is known to be a great descender. It is far easier to descend quickly following the lines of a great descender. It is easier to go fast with 3 people sharing the work on the less steep sections. It is difficult to make the pace yourself after having spent the last 5 minutes of the climb at an all out sprint trying to close the gap.

I would say that there is a fair amount of evidence that having Contador/Sanche/Menchov gain a 40 second advantage 2km from the top of the climb would affect the descent. I just don't see Schleck getting dropped on that descent if he iis with that group at the top. On his own after a 5 min max effort he just isn't a good enough descender to stand a chance.

I guess we are going to find out in the next few days. Cadel Evans is not in the same class as Contador.

Depends on your school of thought... personally yes I think he should have slowed the group until Schleck was back on and have a man on man fight to the finish.... beat him fair and square.... especially since it was already advantage Contador with the time trial looming...

Thats the way I see the etiquette of the situation...

However.... I think we have seen often enough that Contador is one of the riders who doesnt really follow many of the old skool 'gentlemen s' agreement type stuff....

I am sure that Schleck could have hung in on the decent because it is easier in a group, but Contadors downhill skills are better than Schlecks, not my speculation, that is according to cycling "experts"

They didnt lead that attack... if the yellow jersey is the patron I guess the 2nd on the road at this point of the race is kind of like the second leader... they took Contadors lead in continuing and their battle right now is with each other... not hte yellow jersey...

When Contador made the decision to attack they just followed... well thats how a read it but I was half asleep at the time

The way I see it was within that group the weight of the decision rested on Contador re: what to do next.....

Edited by kaqphin 2010-07-20 1:00 AM

Sounds to me like he as dodged the question pretty well Smart man that one....

Great quote!