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2010-08-02 3:12 PM

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Subject: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
I'm relatively new to this sport having only completed one race so far and have only had my bike for a year.  However, I'm considering getting a power meter.  I've read various threads on here and other sites and am finishing up "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" by Allen & Cogen.  I realize many people are very successful without them, but power meters seem like they can be very powerful (no pun intended) tools.  

My short/medium term goals are to stay within the olympic range for the next couple of years but I would like to keep pushing myself.  Given my level of experience (or lack thereof) would there bea  benefit to getting power meter now or waiting until later?  Are there any down sides to getting one earlier? Would the money be better spent on something else (ie working with a coach)?

Thanks,



2010-08-02 3:16 PM
in reply to: #3019116


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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
why wait? if u buy it now u get to use it now.
so more use out of it.
if u know how to use it its a great investment 
2010-08-02 3:19 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
i just picket up a powertap last week and am reading training and racing with power meters.  So far, i don't know what to do with it...
2010-08-02 3:31 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
I think it depends on the person.

If you are very self motivated, I think a power meter is an awesome investment.  It tells you exactly how hard you are working...but you need to motivate yourself to push those limits with your workouts.

If you are not self motivated...and you often rely on someone pushing you, then I'm not sure a power meter will be as beneficial.  After all...it only records numbers.  Recording numbers does not make you better unless you apply them to your workouts.
2010-08-02 3:45 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
Agreed with the above. You need to be able to take the data from the power meter and use it to structure your workouts. If you think you can do that, then go for it.

I've been training with power for several years now and finally feel like I'm taking good advantage of it.
2010-08-03 5:40 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
I think there's significant benefits...if you use it correctly.  Given you've read through Training and Racing, you probably have a pretty good feel for what you'll need to do to pace/train with it correctly.

I'd also HIGHLY recommend joining the Wattage Google Group (just search Google Groups for it), it takes a few seconds, is free, and there are a gazillion posts by really really really scary smart power people (including both Hunter Allen and Dr. Coggen).

If you're looking at the types of power meters to choose, then you may want to consider A) Waiting 6 more weeks until Interbike is over as new ones are both going to be announced and shown, and B) Checking out the below post I have outlining all of the ones on the market today (and a few more coming soon).

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2009/08/power-primer-cycling-with-power-101.html

Oh, and I don't feel that it matters what distance of race you do.  I use my power meter just as much pacing an Oly as I did pacing an Ironman.

Good luck!


2010-08-03 7:00 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete

As others have stated, it's useless if you don't know how to use it to structure your workouts.  It can provide invaluable feedback, but it takes a little bit of education.  I love mine, but I've found I get the most out of it when I have a coach to maximize it's benefit.

As great of a tool as it is, it can also be your worst enemy if you don't like having your power numbers staring you in the face all the time.  If you're a person who likes unstructured fun training, then a PM might not be for you.  If you like to have every minute of your workouts planned and with a specific purpose, then a PM is the best thing ever. 

2010-08-03 7:10 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
power meter workouts are painful...that is all i have to say...

4 x 10' @ 105% ouch....
2010-08-03 7:20 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
I did most of the winter cycling plan this past winter/spring using a trainer after my Half Mary in Feb. I started out using RPE/HR but i had the usual trainer whack feel going on vs the road.  Found out the my trainer (kurt kinetics) had a power meter function built into there own CPU.  Determined it was pretty accurate and started to train using power.  Never went faster than 20.9mph in a local Sprint in my 6 years of doing it. This year I went 22.4 using the structured program with power training.

Now I wish I had a power meter for using on road but that will have to wait.  In the meantime I'll use the power training again on the trainer for the winter months.
2010-08-03 8:44 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
Thanks for the input everyone.  I like having workouts structured and I'm an engineer so really I like data.  Now all I have to do is decide which one...
2010-08-03 8:52 PM
in reply to: #3022030

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete

cornfed - 2010-08-03 8:44 PM Thanks for the input everyone.  I like having workouts structured and I'm an engineer so really I like data.  Now all I have to do is decide which one...

If you think you're going to be at this long term, I'd go with a crank based PM, most likely the quarq.  I have a PowerTap, and while it works great, it's limiting on wheel choices.  The costs of buying a new race wheel with a PT hub versus buying one without more than justifies the upfront expense of the crank PM. 



2010-08-03 9:55 PM
in reply to: #3022048

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
AndrewMT - 2010-08-03 8:52 PM

cornfed - 2010-08-03 8:44 PM Thanks for the input everyone.  I like having workouts structured and I'm an engineer so really I like data.  Now all I have to do is decide which one...

If you think you're going to be at this long term, I'd go with a crank based PM, most likely the quarq.  I have a PowerTap, and while it works great, it's limiting on wheel choices.  The costs of buying a new race wheel with a PT hub versus buying one without more than justifies the upfront expense of the crank PM. 



true but you can always go with the same route i have chose which is powertap + wheel cover.
2010-08-03 10:01 PM
in reply to: #3022148

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete

trix - 2010-08-03 9:55 PM
AndrewMT - 2010-08-03 8:52 PM

cornfed - 2010-08-03 8:44 PM Thanks for the input everyone.  I like having workouts structured and I'm an engineer so really I like data.  Now all I have to do is decide which one...

If you think you're going to be at this long term, I'd go with a crank based PM, most likely the quarq.  I have a PowerTap, and while it works great, it's limiting on wheel choices.  The costs of buying a new race wheel with a PT hub versus buying one without more than justifies the upfront expense of the crank PM. 



true but you can always go with the same route i have chose which is powertap + wheel cover.

Which I have. 

I still would prefer to have the crank based PM and then have more alternatives on wheels.  The only thing keeping me from doing that is that I've already invested money into the PT...  If I could go back, I would go with the quarq and not the PT. 

2010-08-03 11:39 PM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
I've had both power tap (training wheel w/ cover & Zipp 404s that had power tap hub) and recently bought a Quarq.

If you have race wheels currently crank based system like Quarq is way to go.

I bought a new bike which was an ideal time to get a Quarq as I swapped out the crank that came with the bike towards the cost of the Quarq which dropped the price over $300..I needed a crank for my bike so why not get the power meter.  I wanted to switch to clincher Zipps so got those as well with my new Ordu.

The positive with Power Tap is the support as the little yellow computer and hub they can help you problem solve.

With Quarq system you need a computer head. They don't make one so they can help you problem solve and are fantastic on the phone but they don't own the product and you may have to deal with two different companies to problem solve.

If you don't invest the time to learn to ride with power to help you, you waste your money.

There are plenty of triathletes that don't use their power meter to help them as much as they could as they don't fully understand it. DCRainmaker's website has some great tips and ideas to get started.

2010-08-04 8:16 AM
in reply to: #3022048

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
AndrewMT - 2010-08-03 9:52 PM

cornfed - 2010-08-03 8:44 PM Thanks for the input everyone.  I like having workouts structured and I'm an engineer so really I like data.  Now all I have to do is decide which one...

If you think you're going to be at this long term, I'd go with a crank based PM, most likely the quarq.  I have a PowerTap, and while it works great, it's limiting on wheel choices.  The costs of buying a new race wheel with a PT hub versus buying one without more than justifies the upfront expense of the crank PM. 



I looked at the quarq but I'm leaning towards a powertap.  I do think I'll be in this long term but right now I'm riding a road bike.  I'll probably get a tri bike down the road and will look at the quarq then.  I understand what you're saying about the having to get two power taps if I have race wheels.  However, I think right now fitness and experience are more limiting factors for me than hardware so I'm not planning to buy race wheels for my road bike.
2010-08-04 8:34 AM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
Ive been looking at picking up one as well. Right now I like what I see coming out of the MetriGear camp. Much easier to switch pedals from bike to bike than it is to switch cranks.

Only problem is that they are about 6 months behind releasing it and no real product offering in sight. Thats not such a bad thing as I would rather they fine tune everything before releasing it.

For now, I can wait.


2010-08-04 8:41 AM
in reply to: #3022505

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete

I think purchasing a specific model powermeter is going to come down to personal preference… I have 3 powertap wheels and a Quarq. I have multiple bikes and the thought of switching a crank out to move a powermeter for training just doesn’t sound like much fun. Albeit I can do it and it may only take 10 minutes it does not seem like a good use of time plus if I goof it up, I would rather reseat a wheel during a race then DNF because I goofed up the installation of a crank.

 

The one that really perplexes me is the one that goes in the pedal spindle. While I think it is a great idea and in talking with some engineers that developed the PowerTap it has left a lot of questions that need to be answered before I would jump to that ship.

 



Edited by jhouse4 2010-08-04 8:41 AM
2010-08-04 10:24 AM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
I have a PT pro+ on a Reynolds Solitude wheel and a wheel cover.

I can flip it between my road and tri bike within 3 minutes. The wheel cover goes on/off for a race within 5 minutes.

I would say if you have 1 bike, multiple wheelsets, mix of tubular/clincher, go quarq.

If you have multiple bikes, one wheelset, go PT.

If you have multiple bikes, multiple wheelsets....flip a coin. Remember, you can almost get 2 PTs for the price of 1 quarq.

For close to $1100 you can get a PT, wheel and cover to race and train. When you want to evolve to multiple wheelsets, you can probably get most of your money back selling it. I think it's the right way to start.

I may eventually go Quarq, but I am not there yet and it's only when I start investing more in wheels. Focusing on building the engine right now and the power meter certainly helps with that.

2010-08-04 11:43 AM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
i will say this....like others have said....if you don't have the correct plan for it or don't try to read up to know what certain things mean....its useless....it is an advanced training tool.

after 2 months riding with mine....the other day it wasn't working for some reason and i felt useless on the bike, the ride was fine but it just keeps me in check i know exactly the effort i am hitting...awsome tool.
2010-08-04 11:46 AM
in reply to: #3022545

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
nhunter344 - 2010-08-04 8:34 AM Ive been looking at picking up one as well. Right now I like what I see coming out of the MetriGear camp. Much easier to switch pedals from bike to bike than it is to switch cranks.

Only problem is that they are about 6 months behind releasing it and no real product offering in sight. Thats not such a bad thing as I would rather they fine tune everything before releasing it.

For now, I can wait.


I don’t see the Metigear coming out in the immediate future so I would not be holding my breath. Nor do I see it being as "economical" as they stated that it would be.  There is only one head unit that will accept two ANT+ streams of data at once and it costs a mere $1300.00. So for the correct set up, you are at 2K for the two powermeters (one in each pedal as described on their website “Independently measures forces in each leg, and reports total power (watts)&rdquo So by my math this device is going to roughly cost around $3300.00 (unless another manufacturer can come up with a device that can accept two streams of data cheaper) to get it to be where it needs to be to operate correctly, further the manufacturer of this head unit is currently working on their own powermeter that works off of crank arms so production of the head unit for Metigear is not their highest priority. At that price you can get 2 powertap wheels one Zipp 404 with an SL+ the other a DT Swiss with a PRO+ and Servo Computer or for 300 dollars less or for about 200 dollars more 2 Quarq’s with 2 Garmin 500’s.

2010-08-04 12:30 PM
in reply to: #3023089

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
tnc615 - 2010-08-04 12:46 PM
nhunter344 - 2010-08-04 8:34 AM Ive been looking at picking up one as well. Right now I like what I see coming out of the MetriGear camp. Much easier to switch pedals from bike to bike than it is to switch cranks.

Only problem is that they are about 6 months behind releasing it and no real product offering in sight. Thats not such a bad thing as I would rather they fine tune everything before releasing it.

For now, I can wait.


I don’t see the Metigear coming out in the immediate future so I would not be holding my breath. Nor do I see it being as "economical" as they stated that it would be.  There is only one head unit that will accept two ANT+ streams of data at once and it costs a mere $1300.00. So for the correct set up, you are at 2K for the two powermeters (one in each pedal as described on their website “Independently measures forces in each leg, and reports total power (watts)&rdquo So by my math this device is going to roughly cost around $3300.00 (unless another manufacturer can come up with a device that can accept two streams of data cheaper) to get it to be where it needs to be to operate correctly, further the manufacturer of this head unit is currently working on their own powermeter that works off of crank arms so production of the head unit for Metigear is not their highest priority. At that price you can get 2 powertap wheels one Zipp 404 with an SL+ the other a DT Swiss with a PRO+ and Servo Computer or for 300 dollars less or for about 200 dollars more 2 Quarq’s with 2 Garmin 500’s.



My understanding based on some earlier docs from them is that one of the pedals is resonsible for data consolidation and relaying the combined ANT+ data steam to the head unit.

They've touted the additional advantage that if down the road they/you wanted to, you could access independent pedal data for each stream, but that's not a requirement up front.  So really, even the cheapest ANT+ Power Head unit ($80 for Bontrager non-recording) would work, though the next cheapest is $200 for the Edge 500.

The costs they've always quoted have been sub-$1K for everything (both pedals).  Though I agree I think we'll see that price creep slightly higher.  By the same token, rumors are swirling that it's being funded by Polar lately...so that might actually drive price down.


2010-08-04 6:51 PM
in reply to: #3022505

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete

cornfed - 2010-08-04 8:16 AM
AndrewMT - 2010-08-03 9:52 PM

cornfed - 2010-08-03 8:44 PM Thanks for the input everyone.  I like having workouts structured and I'm an engineer so really I like data.  Now all I have to do is decide which one...

If you think you're going to be at this long term, I'd go with a crank based PM, most likely the quarq.  I have a PowerTap, and while it works great, it's limiting on wheel choices.  The costs of buying a new race wheel with a PT hub versus buying one without more than justifies the upfront expense of the crank PM. 



I looked at the quarq but I'm leaning towards a powertap.  I do think I'll be in this long term but right now I'm riding a road bike.  I'll probably get a tri bike down the road and will look at the quarq then.  I understand what you're saying about the having to get two power taps if I have race wheels.  However, I think right now fitness and experience are more limiting factors for me than hardware so I'm not planning to buy race wheels for my road bike.

You never are upfront!  When I bought my PowerTap I said the exact same thing.  In a couple years, you might be singing a different tune.

Either way, it's a good purchase and best of luck!

2010-09-01 8:49 AM
in reply to: #3023188

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete

dcrainmaker - 2010-08-04 12:30 PM
tnc615 - 2010-08-04 12:46 PM
nhunter344 - 2010-08-04 8:34 AM Ive been looking at picking up one as well. Right now I like what I see coming out of the MetriGear camp. Much easier to switch pedals from bike to bike than it is to switch cranks.

Only problem is that they are about 6 months behind releasing it and no real product offering in sight. Thats not such a bad thing as I would rather they fine tune everything before releasing it.

For now, I can wait.


I don’t see the Metigear coming out in the immediate future so I would not be holding my breath. Nor do I see it being as "economical" as they stated that it would be.  There is only one head unit that will accept two ANT+ streams of data at once and it costs a mere $1300.00. So for the correct set up, you are at 2K for the two powermeters (one in each pedal as described on their website “Independently measures forces in each leg, and reports total power (watts)&rdquo So by my math this device is going to roughly cost around $3300.00 (unless another manufacturer can come up with a device that can accept two streams of data cheaper) to get it to be where it needs to be to operate correctly, further the manufacturer of this head unit is currently working on their own powermeter that works off of crank arms so production of the head unit for Metigear is not their highest priority. At that price you can get 2 powertap wheels one Zipp 404 with an SL+ the other a DT Swiss with a PRO+ and Servo Computer or for 300 dollars less or for about 200 dollars more 2 Quarq’s with 2 Garmin 500’s.



My understanding based on some earlier docs from them is that one of the pedals is resonsible for data consolidation and relaying the combined ANT+ data steam to the head unit.

They've touted the additional advantage that if down the road they/you wanted to, you could access independent pedal data for each stream, but that's not a requirement up front.  So really, even the cheapest ANT+ Power Head unit ($80 for Bontrager non-recording) would work, though the next cheapest is $200 for the Edge 500.

The costs they've always quoted have been sub-$1K for everything (both pedals).  Though I agree I think we'll see that price creep slightly higher.  By the same token, rumors are swirling that it's being funded by Polar lately...so that might actually drive price down.

 

So it appears that look/polar will be the first to the market with a pedal based powermeter. Bad news is MSRP is a little under 2400.00 USD

2010-09-01 9:36 AM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
My Powertap Pro+ will be here today.  I'm down the road in Baltimore and I'll trade you some ride time on it for the power book if you're done with it

I really wanted a crank based system because I already had race wheels.  I changed my mind though because I want to ride my roadie too (especially outside over the winter) and not having the ability to easily swap my PM over would mean I'll basically never ride it again (yeah, I can swap, but the roadie has standard and tri bike compact crank...not sure if that means derailleour adjustment too).  Also, the price...saved like $600 and am trying to now sell my race wheel to recoup some cost.

I'm an engineer too, and agree on the structure of workouts.  When I started with HR I was very into that, but the limitations of it annoyed me quickly and I have basically ignored it and gone by RPE mostly.  I wish I had the insight to get it last year when I was starting out, so i'd say the earlier the better.

Seriously though, if you're in Baltimore and want to spin around for a little bit, let me know.

Last thing - I worked with a coach for a few months last year.  It was a really, really good thing for me.  I had NO idea how to train or what I was doing it turns out (I had also never been on a plan or found BT either though).  That taught me a TON about how to approach tri training.  At this point though, I like the idea of a custimized plan, but coaching is definitely secondary for me now.
2010-09-01 10:48 AM
in reply to: #3019116

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Subject: RE: Power Meter benefits for new triathlete
cornfed - 2010-08-02 3:12 PM I'm relatively new to this sport having only completed one race so far and have only had my bike for a year.  However, I'm considering getting a power meter.  I've read various threads on here and other sites and am finishing up "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" by Allen & Cogen.  I realize many people are very successful without them, but power meters seem like they can be very powerful (no pun intended) tools.  

My short/medium term goals are to stay within the olympic range for the next couple of years but I would like to keep pushing myself.  Given my level of experience (or lack thereof) would there bea  benefit to getting power meter now or waiting until later?  Are there any down sides to getting one earlier? Would the money be better spent on something else (ie working with a coach)?

Thanks,

(sorry, I am feeling lazy and didn't read the thread beyond your question )

In short - a PM is nothing more than a data collector; using that data adequately can be one of the most effective was to design a training program, track performance, determine weaknesses,  help you become in tune with your body (RPE), improve your pacing, determine your fueling needs, optimize gearing for racing, and eve stuff like help you test your position (CdA) and your tires Crr.

The challenge is to be able to use all the info the PM can provide and apply it usefully, otherwise it will just become a very expensive cycling computer which unfortunately is the case for many athletes.

Athletes can certainly train successfully by just RPE or HR as long you understand its limitations (which not every does), so you don't need a PM, but if you were to get one and learn or have someone who knows how to use it thoroughly* without a doubt you will improve faster.

Of course I am bias if you were to choose between a PM or a coach I would go with a coach as he/she will helps you for all 3 sports instead of just cycling as long as he/she is knowledgeable and experienced and works based on your specific needs and not on some pre-conceived approach. A very good coach will help you beyond just a plan, he/she will help stay injury free, help you with better nutrition for daily activities and training/racing, better equipment choices and in general take care of the 'details'.

But if you have the motivation to learn about using a PM then it won't be a bad investment at all but the opposite!

* There are coaches out there that know how to partially use a PM (basically they only use TP and focus on VI, NP, AP, NP/AP and TSS) and while they can help you, they won't have the knowledge to analyze all the data to better enhance your training.
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