The Best Plan and The Training Bible

I'll agree that for most (especially beginners) that simply *volume* (which is a universal thing in most triathlon training plans, regardless of author.) will continue to provide improvements for a considerable amount of time.

With that said... (And, I've never used a Friel program so I can say nothing specific good or bad towards it... I always use BT plans) All plans, like anything else in life, are not created equal. Could you get to the top in 5-8 years on (most) any plan... it's certainly possible... but... a Ferrari 360 and a Geo Metro will both get you across the country, only one of them will get you there faster.

Just my opinion of course.

If you read the book, Friel does not want you to train every day. He is for off days and weeks during the year.

It really is all based on your race goal.  If you are looking to finish an IM, I think any general program is good.  As long as you are moving and putting in the miles.

However, when you are looking to PR, stagnant in your training or trying to podium, you really will benefit from a coach in that the program with not be general, it will be specific to you and only you.  Trust me, I did the Fiel book, endurance nation, Gale programs.  They were good for different reasons, but in the end, I know what to step on the top step. I NEED A COACH TO MAKE MY PLAN, LOOK AT MY DATA, AND MAKE IT WORK FOR ME.

Like I said, no plan is better or worse than the other.  They work for some not others but if you want to really improve, a coach is the way to go. 

your analagy kind of proves my point.  It takes a better engine to get you from point A to point B faster.

I assume if you and I both know how to drive, and have the same car, for a race of that distance who taught us how to drive means little assuming we have the same engine.

Scheduled off days and weeks is not part of training?

I consider a scheduled off day and perhaps 2-3 weeks each year to be part of a training plan, therefore is training.

IOW, if me and bob have the same plan, and Monday says "day off" and I take it off and bob runs, I am training more consistently then bob.

right, but... if we're using the car analogy still... your "coach" isn't who taught you to drive, he's who (helped) build your engine.

I'm agreeing on the points that ANY (remotely sane) plan will get somebody from untrained to competitive... but somebody who tailor makes a program to you will help you get there faster than a cookie cutter. There are too many variables `per athlete` for something generalized to work as good for somebody as a custom plan.

Take 2 (past) college swimmers for example (A and B). A is on a cookie cutter program, he's going 3x/wk for each of the 3 sports. B is on a custom program. Both are poor cyclists and a decent runners (and, obviously, quite competitive swimmers) B's custom program realizes that he needs to spend more time in the saddle to bring up his bike split, at the sacrifice of some pool time. He'll be (a bit) slower in the water, but faster on the bike. A, having less time in the saddle will probably be out of the water faster, however, with the bike being considerably longer, he'll be passed by B who spent more time on his cycling.

Now, I think what you are saying is "Is it worth it" to somebody untrained not to just use a readily available plan... in which case everybody has to make up their own mind.

Those of us against some of Friel's ideas/concepts has nothing to do with the way he set up his plans or the way he coaches. After all those are his interpretations of science and training concepts based on what he understands or not about those. What many of us are against is the misinformation he has spread with his books/articles and how he, at least in the past, has presented some of those opinions/ideas as facts supported by pseudo-science when the actual current evidence suggest otherwise. That is why some of us are critical of him, but not about his coaching or the way he interprets it. He obviously is successful and his ideas had helped many athletes.

As you point out, the key to training is consistency. Anyone can finish an sprint, Oly, HIM or IM and even do very well with a good designed general plan. Many athletes don't need a coach or plan and they are able to succeed without a one, specially if the have they have learned to listen to their bodies and know what works for them, doing the work and consistent training will help you improve and perform well.

But, that is not the reason why we (PBM coaching) charge for our services. The plan is just a piece in a greater range of services and things involved on what we offer though the plan is the venue for you to execute. We at PBM coaching do much more than that delivering a plan. We get very involved with the athlete in many aspects beyond just training. The way we can help an athlete is by getting to know him/her thoroughly as an athlete; we systematically and progressively push them to the limit to learn how much is too much.

We use the data available (power, GPS, HRM, RPE) plus their daily feedback to learn their physiological responses to training, how fast it takes to recover and when will they produce peak performance. We identify optimal pacing and fueling strategies for the main events and daily training, help them make better fueling choices and develop better eating habits. We them determine body composition to manage weight goals and/or maximize performance. We look into how can we use their available gear to make sure he/she can gain a competitive edge.

We do all this while we make sure avoid injuries and address imbalances. We also have to manage the best plan and blend it with their busy schedule so they can better to cope with the different life priorities and avoid burning out. Hence, while the perception might be that we are charging you for just a plan it is incorrect; we at PBM coaching are charging you for the time we will invest to help you achieve your athletic goals, while at the same time you are able to cope with your other life priorities. We can guarantee that we can help you obtain better results in the short and long run from those on your own whether you want to finish your 1st tri, have a healthy racing season, place on the podium or qualifying for Kona/Clearwater/Worlds/Boston.

I've read many things I disagree with re: Friel, but he has changed over the past years and he has acknowledged (or implied) he indeed has provided some misinformation and now is more proactive at stating his pieces as opinions rather than facts. For that I've gained respect him, plus I've also learned cool things from him as he has many years of coaching experience. I've always said that we all should thank Friel as his books has brought many of us into the sport.

At the same time, I think is fair to e critical of his books because it has helped spreading a lot of misinformation and he is partly responsible and why today there is confusion or it is very difficult to speak the same language among coaches/athletes. I think we should be more proactive as using the already established sport physiology or endurance training concepts, helping us speak the same language and making the message clearer and easy to understand for everyone.

Whether it's Friel or a personal coach, overcoming the commitment barrier would be the biggest challenge. Very few have the time or money to spend on training that much for that long.

Do you know of any people who started from nothing in their low/mid 40's who finished in the top 50 in an IM? Not that it's entirely impossible, but given the large number of talented younger athletes who've trained for years, it seems rather unlikely a relative newcomer with average skills will exceed their performances.

IOW, while this makes for an interesting debate, in reality it's doubtful such a thing will occur.

Jorge-

great response.  you hit all the reasons why you offer a great service and why I hired a coach.

I think most are capable of doing this with his book. 

There are a few main things a coach does/should do, that a plan wont.

We are all diff, we do not start with the same engine, skill set, etc.

a pre-built plan and the internet can get you most of that if you put in the work.

You start training and improving at a steady rate.

Now you add a coaching into the mix that KNOWS WHAT HE OR SHE IS DOING.

They realize that not everyone needs to be on the same schedule, that some people respond to diff workout types better,they are able to look at the athlete from the outside and see the larger picture and make changes as needed.

They also can help with things like nutrition, staying injury free, the mental side of this, equipment, diet, so on and so forth. A plan cannot.


I've been coaching rowing for a few years now, and have worked with 3 diff teams (Upper arlington high school, Sacred heart, and the university of notre dame). At these schools, i've worked with a range of their programs, from new novice, to varsity rowers.

All three of these teams had what are fairly typical traditional rowing programs in place for their training, and after coming into all 3 i changed how my boats trained. with a pre-season and one seasons worth of the new training ALL the boats i was coaching were going faster than they ever had, or the programs had ever seen.

Not all training is created equal, and simply knwoing when to move workouts around, or when its time to shift focus, and allow for improvements and setbacks, can go a very very long way.

FWIW i have nothing against the friel plans, but really am not a fan of any plans like that outside of a rough starting point.

yes.

I may have stretched the age though to prove my point.  probably would have to start in mid 30's.

It is extrememly doubtful to occur because very few think it is possible.  My bet is less than 1% of current 35 y/o's in the country think it is possible, which would make it kind of hard to acheive...., you gotta kind of believe it's possible before it happens

And based on the response of this thread thus far, most believe it is overly complex.

I believe it is possible, and although simple, it is not easy.

(I forgot who said that, "simple, not easy," certainly not my words)

but I don't want to derail my own thread.........

The big picture is this, IMHO.

Keeping this basic.
Friel does periodization of the 3/1 variety.  3 week build, 1 week recovery.  I agree that a majority (more like top 75%) of people will get faster by following this plan. 

Non-Friel types will not follow such a rigid structure because they know everyone is different and can handle different loads.  THAT is the major difference between them IMHO.  Also, Friel is about lots of volume (his perspective is changing though) and not so much intensity.

I can tell you from experience that the short time I did not have a coach I was still doing 12 hrs/wk, but not getting faster.  Why?  Because it didn't have a purpose.  That's where the specificity of training comes in.  And I'm no where near the top 50 in an IM.

To keep with the car analogy:

You and I both have the same car (New 2010 Honda Elemet since that's the triathlete car dejour)
We set off across the US. 
I am following the Friel method which has me driving 55 mph for 3 days and then 45 mph for 1 day, repeat.
You follow a more intensity driven non-Friel plan that has you driving at 70 mph for 4-5 days with one day at 55 mph because that is what you can handle. 

You will reach the coast before I do.  That's because the 3/1 thing has no basis in science.  A coach looks at the athlete and determines what they can handle and then go from there.  Not assume that the 3/1 works or is necessary.  I go more like a General and Race specific phase.  That's year round. 

Less hours in training, more for your family/TV/whatever with better results.

YMMV

This is the route I've taken and I have exceeded every expectation I had of myself last year and I plan to exceed expectations of myself next year. 

I think your analysis is spot on, and a great writeup for anyone just getting into this sport.  Self coaching takes a ton of self motivation and comittment and being consistant with your training is one of the most difficult things I have experienced.  But I have followed plans, and followed them to the T (for the most part, missed workout here and there) and I have improved in all three diciplines.  Went from MOP in my 1st tri last year to 2nd in AG at the same race this year and hope to win my AG next year. 

On the otherhand, coaching can be invaluable for those trying to squeeze every last drop of potential they have as you've mentioned, however it is also extremely valuable for those who may need, or want the extra motivation to just get it done.  My training binder doesn't scream at me to push harder, or get my to the track in the AM, but a coach could. Some people need that. 

Another huge factor and something coaches must struggle with to gian and maintain clients is available funds.  Does one upgrade their bike, buy new wheels, go aero, or hire a coach for 20+ weeks? Huge considerations. 

Great write-up, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts! 

(whops, triple post!)

forget Friel for a second, that was just my attention grabber.

I think new people to the sport place too much emphasis on specificity (I did!).

If you just focused on training everday, being the best you could be, you would be amazed at what simply fell into your lap (including the right coach!!).

all those things jorge and dan mention would answer themselves.

 

Edited by cusetri 2010-08-20 10:14 AM

Edited by cusetri 2010-08-20 9:58 AM

Edited by cusetri 2010-08-20 9:58 AM

one thing I wanted to add:

I can see how my post may suggest what a coach does is easy.

THIS IS NOT my opnion.

I'm quoting Jorge's most salient point as far as I'm concerned, and the reason that I don't like some of Friel's concepts.



Here's what I offer on this: Most (90%) of athletes out there are going to be just fine following a Friel plan, a Byrne plan, BT plan, whatever premade plan you like. Simply because they mostly need to just follow an organized routine and put the time in.

When you NEED to get a coach is when one of a few things happens:

1. You are no longer progressing by following premade plans
2. You do not know how to tweak a plan to benefit you the most
3. You want to understand the reasons WHY a particular workout does what it does

3 is a little questionable, as you can pick up books and study it yourself (As you could for 1 and 2), but many don't have the time/inclination to do that.

And no, you can't change your engine. You can however, get the most out of it. Take your typical honda engine. Now replace the pistons with lightweight titanium, and you get a little more HP out of it (You lose weight). Get better spark plugs (You train your muscles to respond faster). High octane gasoline (Better diet). And so on.

A coach can point out ways that you can optimize your current engine to get the most out of it. And yes, some people are born with Bugatti Veyron engines, while others are stuck with VW bug engines. Doesn't mean you can't get everything out of it that you can.

John

I see what you're saying, and agree to a point. There's no doubt that with enough time, consistent training, and a hell of a lot of hard work, you can make tremendous strides in your abilities in all 3 sports following a stock plan and listening to your body. But as Jorge and Dan allude to, not everyone responds to the same training in the same way. While you may be able to handle more frequent intense workouts or a heavier training load, I may not. Or vice versa. It's a square peg-round hole thing....sometimes the stock plan fits perfectly, sometimes it doesn't. In my opinoin, what a good coach can do is tailor a program that will fit your bodies demands and/or limitations so that you get the right amount of stress at the right time without under- or over-loading the body.

It's a few years old, but here's a great article about Potts and the extreme lengths to which his coach tailors his training. To the day.

http://ariannecohen.com/uploads/files/Popular_Science_Triathlete_8-08.pdf

I totally understand what you are saying, I just would not call a day off "training", I would call it "recovery". Just different wording, we both know what we each mean...  :0)

x3 to Jorge's point about the TTB.

My biggest concern if I were looking for a coach is that number of coaches who use the TTB as their primary (or only) resource or are using TrainingPeaks to deliver programs and using the VirtualCoach option to "guide" the athlete's training plan. 

Also, as to the required rest day/recovery week that is advocated by Friel and has become a staple in most training programs, these elements are not usually required in a well designed training plan but they can be used to mask a poorly designed plan.

Shane

consistency is key.. trouble is, not enough people are consistent enough for a basic plan to work.. heck some don't even complete a high percentage of their workouts when they are coached.  A prominent coach on the mtb board I post on suggests new racers to wait on getting coaching until they've accumulated 1,000 hours of saddle time.. he also said that the difference between his pros and the amateurs he coaches is the elites/pros make 99% of their prescribed workouts, while most of his lower level racers complete about 75%. (anecdotal.. yes but this is a discussion).