General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Can you increase your maximum HR? Rss Feed  
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2010-09-02 3:58 PM

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Subject: Can you increase your maximum HR?

Is it possible, through training, to increase your max heart rate?

And, is it desireable and does anyone train and measure this over time?

Seems to me it's would be like increasing the red-line rpm in your car. 



2010-09-02 4:01 PM
in reply to: #3079355

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
I think that a deer jumping out in front of me during a dark winter run seemed to have temporarily increased mine one night.  Laughing
2010-09-02 4:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
morey000 - 2010-09-02 1:58 PM

Is it possible, through training, to increase your max heart rate? NO not your max HR.

And, is it desireable and does anyone train and measure this over time? Not desirable and a waste of time to measure it.

Seems to me it's would be like increasing the red-line rpm in your car. 



Let me make clear that I'm talking about Max HR, not LT.
2010-09-02 4:24 PM
in reply to: #3079355

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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
No - you can't increase your MAX heart rate, and since there's no reliable way to actually measure it, it's a pretty meaningless metric.

You CAN however, with proper training, raise your LT and VO2 Max heart rate, which can be meaningful measurements to track.
2010-09-02 4:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
Maximum heart rate + 1 = death.

So, no.

By definition, maximum is the highest rate at which your heart can beat.
2010-09-02 4:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
jsnowash - 2010-09-02 5:24 PM No - you can't increase your MAX heart rate, and since there's no reliable way to actually measure it, it's a pretty meaningless metric. You CAN however, with proper training, raise your LT and VO2 Max heart rate, which can be meaningful measurements to track.


actually, wouldn't you want to be be lowering your heart rate at these thresholds? You would want your heart beating less times going at a harder effort. Keep doing this and you are improving, right?


2010-09-02 4:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
wstchstrTriathlete - 2010-09-03 6:31 AM
jsnowash - 2010-09-02 5:24 PM No - you can't increase your MAX heart rate, and since there's no reliable way to actually measure it, it's a pretty meaningless metric. You CAN however, with proper training, raise your LT and VO2 Max heart rate, which can be meaningful measurements to track.


actually, wouldn't you want to be be lowering your heart rate at these thresholds? You would want your heart beating less times going at a harder effort. Keep doing this and you are improving, right?


No, I'm pretty sure you want your HR increasing for these thresholds.  It's true that with increased fitness you should be able to do more work at a lower HR, but if my max is around 205bpm, I want to race as close to that number as possible to maximize the amount of work I'm doing.

If my VO2max threshold is 190bpm and my LT is 178bpm, I want to work to increase that LT threshold to get it as close as possible to my VO2max threshold to increase the workload that my body/heart can do. 

Similarly, if my VO2max is 170bpm and my LT is 178bpm, then I need to be working on that VO2max HR to increase that threshold before I start trying to increase my LT. 
2010-09-02 4:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?

I sure don't wanna lower mine.

It doesn't get easier.....you just get faster.

2010-09-02 4:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
My brother in law, who is ~55 and has been working his off as a cyclist for the last 4 years, claimed he hit a new max HR of 188.  He said he'd never seen anything above 175 before.

Now- he has made impressive gains in his cycling in the last few years, and that is an HR well higher than I would expect for his age.

anyway - that's what brought up my question.

Seems to me that if you have more heart rate range, it would be a good thing.  Kind of like a car with a higher RPM red-line. but, perhaps biology doesn't work that way.

thanks for all the responses.
2010-09-02 5:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?

I'm pretty sure what everyone is saying is.....your MHR is your MHR.  What you want to increase is your LTHR.....or the HR you can sustain for an hour (or....the max rate you can sustain for a given metric).

I hope this makes sense.  AND, I hope I said that correctly.

2010-09-02 5:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
morey000 - 2010-09-02 2:53 PM My brother in law, who is ~55 and has been working his off as a cyclist for the last 4 years, claimed he hit a new max HR of 188.  He said he'd never seen anything above 175 before.

Now- he has made impressive gains in his cycling in the last few years, and that is an HR well higher than I would expect for his age.

anyway - that's what brought up my question.

Seems to me that if you have more heart rate range, it would be a good thing.  Kind of like a car with a higher RPM red-line. but, perhaps biology doesn't work that way.

thanks for all the responses.


Honestly, he didn't measure it accurately from the beginning.  Maybe he didn't know HOW to push harder early on to find out what it was.

Range is not that important.  What's important is how EFFICIENT you can be at a YOUR lower HR.  Faster at a lower HR = good.

As an example, my primary riding partner and I are VERY close in ability...  However, I can ride all day in the 150's but he needs to stay in the 130's.  If he goes to 150, he will crack (but he would be much faster than me at that effort).  I can keep up, but then I hit 170's, and I crack after a while...

What I'm saying, his Z2 is 130 and mine is 150 and we ride at the same pace at that effort.

I have a bigger "range" than him, but it's all individual.  The trick to beating him, would be to get FASTER, at 150.  That can be done obviously with increased fitness, and what I'm also working on, is a little more weight loss.


2010-09-02 5:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
morey000 - 2010-09-02 4:53 PM My brother in law, who is ~55 and has been working his off as a cyclist for the last 4 years, claimed he hit a new max HR of 188.  He said he'd never seen anything above 175 before.

Most likely he has never pushed himself that hard which is one of the reasons MHR is not a good metric to track performance (fitness). It also declines as we age.

morey000 - 2010-09-02 4:53 PM
Now- he has made impressive gains in his cycling in the last few years, and that is an HR well higher than I would expect for his age.


MHR is particular to each person so while that MHR by seem indeed high for some, it might not for others, but then again, since it is pretty much impossible to reach MHR you never know how high is too high.

morey000 - 2010-09-02 4:53 PM
Seems to me that if you have more heart rate range, it would be a good thing.  Kind of like a car with a higher RPM red-line. but, perhaps biology doesn't work that way.

thanks for all the responses.


LTHR which correlates (though not as accurate as pace/power) with stuff like LT, MLSS, VO2 max (or peak), etc hence it is a better metric to track performance, design training plans, etc. While training might allow you to exercise at a higher LTHR for a given effort in general what occurs is that you go faster, longer or both at the relatively same LTHR.


Edited by JorgeM 2010-09-02 5:14 PM
2010-09-02 5:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
JorgeM - 2010-09-02 7:12 PM
morey000 - 2010-09-02 4:53 PM My brother in law, who is ~55 and has been working his off as a cyclist for the last 4 years, claimed he hit a new max HR of 188.  He said he'd never seen anything above 175 before.

Most likely he has never pushed himself that hard which is one of the reasons MHR is not a good metric to track performance (fitness). It also declines as we age.

morey000 - 2010-09-02 4:53 PM
Now- he has made impressive gains in his cycling in the last few years, and that is an HR well higher than I would expect for his age.


MHR is particular to each person so while that MHR by seem indeed high for some, it might not for others, but then again, since it is pretty much impossible to reach MHR you never know how high is too high.

morey000 - 2010-09-02 4:53 PM
Seems to me that if you have more heart rate range, it would be a good thing.  Kind of like a car with a higher RPM red-line. but, perhaps biology doesn't work that way.

thanks for all the responses.


LTHR which correlates (though not as accurate as pace/power) with stuff like LT, MLSS, VO2 max (or peak), etc hence it is a better metric to track performance, design training plans, etc. While training might allow you to exercise at a higher LTHR for a given effort in general what occurs is that you go faster, longer or both at the relatively same LTHR.


The only thing I can add is it is thought the a person's MHR change from a sedentary level of fitness to that of an endurance athlete is probably at most 2-3 beats. That research is a few years old but was generally accepted (but not by the OP's brother)
2010-09-02 10:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
JorgeM - 2010-09-02 4:12 PM

morey000 - 2010-09-02 4:53 PM My brother in law, who is ~55 and has been working his off as a cyclist for the last 4 years, claimed he hit a new max HR of 188.  He said he'd never seen anything above 175 before.

Most likely he has never pushed himself that hard which is one of the reasons MHR is not a good metric to track performance (fitness). It also declines as we age.


HR is a response to metabolic demand. Increased muscle recruitment = increased demand = increased HR up to your maximum. While MAX HR is essentially determined by your heart's individual physiology and not "trainable", it is possible to see slight increases in observed MAX HR for different activities if you have trained your body to recruit additional muscle mass. So a novice cyclist may see an increase in the MAX HR they see on "cardiac hill" simply because they have trained their body to recruit more muscles, not because they truly have increased their Max HR.

in any case, it's not a trainible metric, it is what it is. So as others have said, you want to focus on yoru ability to sustain a certain amount of work at lower heart rates OR increase the amount of work you can do at the same HR.
2010-09-02 10:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Can you increase your maximum HR?
thanks for all the responses.  good info.

Personally- I don't think it's because he didn't know how to work hard on the bike in the past.  My theory is that his HR monitor was reading incorrectly.  Mine does that all the time, especially with wind on my chest. 
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