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2010-09-14 9:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
Along these same lines, I feel that nutrition and hydration get used synonymously.  Going for a 1.5 hour workout and having water and or electrolytes with you seems reasonable, a calorie type mix or a few gels seems like overkill as well.  Hyration and nutrition are not the same thing.

Edited by Tim_H 2010-09-14 9:50 AM


2010-09-14 9:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
browncd - 2010-09-14 10:42 AM One issue I have seen is people race harder then they train,


Yeah, this is backwards; you should train hard, then race
2010-09-14 10:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
bryancd - 2010-09-13 8:22 PM I think it comes down to a few things, David. For long course racing, being able to live off the land, so to speak, can be very advantageous. It's something you can replicate in training and does not require a lot of additional effort in terms of pre-race and during race (Special needs, ect.). The benefit of current athletic nutrition is it's convenient. Pre-packaged, nice and compact, giving you a decent nutritional bang for the buck (not in terms of costs, this stuff is pricey). I do think people WAY over think and plan their nutrition as they have been scared stupid by bogus claims from the companies which sell complicated nutrition products. My Mom used to race IM's with fig Netwons and candy bars, so there you go.


I used Paydays at my IM --- why am I not as fast/ awesome as your mom?
2010-09-14 10:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
Scout7 - 2010-09-14 7:36 AM Well, I know that if I took in calories the way some people claim to, I'd be vomiting after every run. I think people don't realize that they how little they need to train. It is entirely possible to complete a 10 mile (even a 14 mile) training run without taking in calories. It's all about managing effort.[/QUOTE]

 I think the issue is usually the person's intensity rather than their nutrition plan when things go wrong, but it's much easier to blame it on nutrition
2010-09-14 10:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
bryancd - 2010-09-13 8:22 PM I think it comes down to a few things, David. For long course racing, being able to live off the land, so to speak, can be very advantageous. It's something you can replicate in training and does not require a lot of additional effort in terms of pre-race and during race (Special needs, ect.). The benefit of current athletic nutrition is it's convenient. Pre-packaged, nice and compact, giving you a decent nutritional bang for the buck (not in terms of costs, this stuff is pricey). I do think people WAY over think and plan their nutrition as they have been scared stupid by bogus claims from the companies which sell complicated nutrition products. My Mom used to race IM's with fig Netwons and candy bars, so there you go.


There was an athlete in my half this weekend who had a whole box of fig newtons taped to his aerobars and he was killing it!  That and water was his only fuel source, I had to ask him about it! 
2010-09-14 10:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
mchubri` - 2010-09-14 9:45 AM
There was an athlete in my half this weekend who had a whole box of fig newtons taped to his aerobars and he was killing it!  That and water was his only fuel source, I had to ask him about it! 


I like Fig Netwons but I LOVE Cliff Bars, so I eat those instead but only for an IM or a 75+ mile biek ride. Otherwise I can just do gels, water, and sport drink. For a half it's 5-6 gels in a gels in a flask. I carry one for the run as well.


2010-09-14 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
Scout7 - 2010-09-14 9:41 AM
TriAya - 2010-09-14 10:31 AM
Jeff Galloway agrees with you!

I suppose I should stop being lazy and look up the science myself. His spiel is that most people, even really skinny ones, have way more than enough fat reserves to get them through some pretty long runs. The sugars people suck down are really for fooling your brain into convincing you you CAN keep going.

I've found the fitter and smaller I get, the FAR FAR less nutrition I need.
Exactly. From my readings and research, calories burned is primarily based on distance, and weight (yes other factors weigh in, but they are minimal and we have no control over them). So, a 160 lb person running 10 miles consumes fewer calories than a 200 lb. person running the same distance. Effort over the distance does not change the calories burned. Effort does, however, determine the primary source of fuel. The easier the effort, the more calories come from fat vs. glycogen reserves. Another reason for people to slow down in their running. You'll be able to go much further without a need for calories, and hence lose weight.[/QUOTE]


^^^In just the last week or so there was a forum discussing just this (energy systems used vs. workout intensity). For longer races, aren't we trying to condition our bodies to put off burning glycogen stores and using stored fat as energy first, no? From personal experience, I get more from eating a good pre-workout meal an hour or two beforehand than using supplements along the way to keep up with cals burned. Depending on conditions and length of workout, I may or may not bring along water or sports drink, but I haven't seen any benefit in taking gels or anything for runs less than 14-15 miles, and even then, it's probably more mental than anything (100 cal gel isn't gonna do much when I burn well over that in just one mile). I admit, in the past I've drunk the Kool-Aid (er, Gatorade Wink) but as I put more miles in, the more I realize that I was just pi$$ing money away on the expensive "perfornance enhancing" specialty foods and drinks.

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2010-09-14 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
One other observation, especially at shorter distance races, is that people seem to take in way too much nutrition.

Hear. Hear.

Some of the nutrition/hydration "needs" people post leave me scratching my head.
2010-09-14 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
seems from most of the responses that most everyone agrees that nutrition is a bit overdone. And I agree.   but I am sure that there will still be plenty of people out at a sprint this weekend stressing about their nutrition.
2010-09-14 11:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
jwtaylo - 2010-09-14 12:52 PM

In just the last week or so there was a forum discussing just this (energy systems used vs. workout intensity).


Here's an article that deals with that; it's a little older but you can see the full text if you are intrested.

http://www.edb.utexas.edu/coyle/review%20arts/17%20PR)%20Substrate%20Utilization.pdf

For longer races, aren't we trying to condition our bodies to put off burning glycogen stores and using stored fat as energy first, no?


The fitter you become, the faster you can go at a given intensity so (hopefully) after you have trained for a period of time, the substrate utilization will shift more toward FFA and away from CHO for a given pace/power.  However, this balance can also be affected by diet (i.e. eat a high fat diet and more energy will be obtained via FFA) so the goal is really to become more fit, not just improve FFA utilization.

As to CHO supplementation, at a high intensity, most athletes will have 60-90 minutes worth of stored glycogen and will only need to supplement with CHO as they get toward the end of this supply.  At lower intensities, an athlete can go further without supplementing as there are fewer overall calories being utilized and more of them are coming from FFA.

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2010-09-14 12:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
trishie - 2010-09-14 11:00 AM
bryancd - 2010-09-13 8:22 PM I think it comes down to a few things, David. For long course racing, being able to live off the land, so to speak, can be very advantageous. It's something you can replicate in training and does not require a lot of additional effort in terms of pre-race and during race (Special needs, ect.). The benefit of current athletic nutrition is it's convenient. Pre-packaged, nice and compact, giving you a decent nutritional bang for the buck (not in terms of costs, this stuff is pricey). I do think people WAY over think and plan their nutrition as they have been scared stupid by bogus claims from the companies which sell complicated nutrition products. My Mom used to race IM's with fig Netwons and candy bars, so there you go.


I used Paydays at my IM --- why am I not as fast/ awesome as your mom?


Probably because you forgot the Fig Newtons.



2010-09-14 12:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Do we go overkill with our nutrition?
riorio - 2010-09-14 9:04 AM

I think the intention of the nutrition companies (besides making money) is to "simplify" the triathlete's training or racing day, it is my opinion that the athlete themself sometimes over-complicate nutrition. ?



Oh, it is all about making people think they need something special so that they sell stuff.  And the cost of that stuff adds up.  I'll hobble along with regular gatorade and regular jelly beans.
2010-09-14 12:53 PM
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