General Discussion Triathlon Talk » New bike fit, now knee "pain" Rss Feed  
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2010-09-23 2:39 PM

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Champion
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SRQ, FL
Subject: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
A few weeks back I went to get a new fit on my bike.  The previous fit was from the shop I purchased it from and it was more of a "yep, looks good" kind of fit.  This one was a 3 hour measurement and power meter fest. (Can I log that?)

Anyway, he ended up moving my seat up almost 1.5" and forward a good 1.5".  Moved my cleats a little and swapped out my stem for a shorter one.  In essence he "squished" me up a lot more.  I thought I would hate it.

Turns out it works.  I'm more comfortable, my speed/power has increased, hands are not as numb, and I can stay in aero much longer.

However over the last 2 weeks I have noticed my knees getting a bit sore.  I used "pain" in quotations as it's not pain but tenderness (ok and a little pain).  It is both on the top and bottom side of the patella.  It's starting to affect my running as well.

Having had knee surgery in Feb makes me extra sensitive to knee issues.

I'm going back next week to have him re-look at everything but any ideas what I might want him to check.  A guy I ride with mentioned that I might have my knee in front of the pedal spindle on the down stroke (which could possibly place stress on the knee).  Sound feasible?

I love the new position but don't want to be doing any damage.



Edited by TriRSquared 2010-09-23 2:54 PM


2010-09-23 3:05 PM
in reply to: #3114559

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Modesto, California
Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
That is a considerable adjustment to your fit, I would back off and ease into back into it, let your body get adjusted to the fit and then ramp your milage. Have you gone over it with the fitter? Most fitters recommend a follow up or even a phone call.
2010-09-23 3:36 PM
in reply to: #3114559

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Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
A guy I ride with mentioned that I might have my knee in front of the pedal spindle on the down stroke (which could possibly place stress on the knee).  Sound feasible?


Your knee will almost certainly get in front of the spindle in the tuck position, so that's not uncommon, and not necessarily a problem as long as your pedal stroke is ok. It's kinda hard to do without a drawing, but as long as your body is properly rotated forward about the bottom bracket, you should be ok.

Rechecking the fit is probably the best idea, though. (since none of us can see you or are certified fitters) Backing off a cm here and there for a few weeks might be a good idea as you adapt to the fit, then maybe go back to the more aggressive position.

Other possible sources: tight muscles (stretch a bit more after riding), cleat position, seat height still not quite right.

Good luck with that, and let us know how the fitter readjusted things...-Jason
2010-09-23 3:59 PM
in reply to: #3114559

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Extreme Veteran
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Richmond
Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
I like the replys so far. I do a lot of fits and I always tell people, "Smetimes we make all the right moves and things may be a little sore or sensitive anyway. Back off of your training a bit and allow your body to adapt and please let me know ho you are progressing."

I would go back to your fitter or at least drop him a note to keep him informed.

BTW - Knee over pedal spindle has absolutely no business even being considered during a steep seat tubed tri bike fit.

I coach for a living. It is my full time job. I get paid for bike fits, training plans, etc. I am also the co-developer of a 12 week swim program called, Finding Freestyle. You may hear me mention it. Some of it is free and some of it is for sale. It can be found here:


 

http://www.findingfreestyle.com/   
2010-09-23 4:00 PM
in reply to: #3114559

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Champion
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SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
I believe what my bike mate meant was illustrated here.  If your knee was too far in front of the pedal I could see some stresses being generated in knee.  We left the follow up open.  He said if I had issues to come back.  So that's what I'm doing.  Just trying to gather all the info I can before I go back.



And for the record it's a road bike (Specialized Roubaix) with clip on aerobars so the fit is going to be different than a true tri bike fit.

Edited by TriRSquared 2010-09-23 4:02 PM
2010-09-23 5:52 PM
in reply to: #3114559

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Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
Just as an outflyer to consider.

When was the last time you changed out your running shoes?

Yeah, bike fit almost drove me crazy until I realized my running shoes were over 3 months old and my knees were just sensitive to the 3-4 hour rides. New running shoes and it went away.


2010-09-23 6:01 PM
in reply to: #3114969

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Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
DanielG - 2010-09-23 5:52 PM Just as an outflyer to consider. When was the last time you changed out your running shoes? Yeah, bike fit almost drove me crazy until I realized my running shoes were over 3 months old and my knees were just sensitive to the 3-4 hour rides. New running shoes and it went away.


3 months???  Dang...you're keeping the shoe companies happy!
2010-09-23 6:26 PM
in reply to: #3114559

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Champion
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Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
WOW. Lots of changes made. Knee pain is worrisome. Go back and have things looked at. I know a slight cleat change gave me knee pain.

I also know that mashing the pedal with low cadence did that to me as well. What kind of cadence do you keep?

2010-09-23 6:33 PM
in reply to: #3114767

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Richmond
Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
Yes I have seen the concept illustrated and I understand that a road bike with clip ons is a slightly different fit than a true tri bike.  Key word being slightly. If you are properly positioned in those clip ons, you will be much farther forward than the road bike position. Where you will be a little more constrained is in the drop, unless you resort to negative rise or adjustable stems.

So knee over pedal spindle being perhaps marginally useful for road bike fits, I must stand by my original statement that it is completely useless for tri bike AND road bikes with clip ons.  If you pursue a more knee over pedal spindle position, I believe you will end up very stretched out and consequently uncomfortable in the upper body, as well as having your power compromised due to a overly acute hip angle from sitting too far back.

I am only making an educated guess, but I think your knees are sore because you made large but proper changes to your position. Maybe give it a little time and pull back a bit on the volume and intensity if you can.  I don't think moving rearward is the answer.

I coach for a living. It is my full time job. I get paid for bike fits, training plans, etc. I am also the co-developer of a 12 week swim program called, Finding Freestyle. You may hear me mention it. Some of it is free and some of it is for sale. It can be found here:


 

http://www.findingfreestyle.com/   
2010-09-23 6:37 PM
in reply to: #3114980

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Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
undertheradar - 2010-09-23 7:01 PM

DanielG - 2010-09-23 5:52 PM Just as an outflyer to consider. When was the last time you changed out your running shoes? Yeah, bike fit almost drove me crazy until I realized my running shoes were over 3 months old and my knees were just sensitive to the 3-4 hour rides. New running shoes and it went away.


3 months???  Dang...you're keeping the shoe companies happy!


3 months and 2 weeks and I'm limping from the knee and shin pain.

Much cheaper to buy new shoes every 3 months than to have knee replacement later in life.
2010-09-23 6:50 PM
in reply to: #3114559

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Champion
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SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
Thanks for the input.  Also that's not me in the pic.  Just a random one I found to illustrate the point.

Pretty sure it's not my running shoes as it bothers me during the ride and right after.  Not near as much during the run.


2010-09-23 6:56 PM
in reply to: #3115013

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Champion
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SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
KSH - 2010-09-23 7:26 PM WOW. Lots of changes made. Knee pain is worrisome. Go back and have things looked at. I know a slight cleat change gave me knee pain. I also know that mashing the pedal with low cadence did that to me as well. What kind of cadence do you keep?


Pretty high.. 90-100 most of the time.
2010-09-23 7:06 PM
in reply to: #3115047

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Champion
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Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
TriRSquared - 2010-09-23 6:56 PM

KSH - 2010-09-23 7:26 PM WOW. Lots of changes made. Knee pain is worrisome. Go back and have things looked at. I know a slight cleat change gave me knee pain. I also know that mashing the pedal with low cadence did that to me as well. What kind of cadence do you keep?


Pretty high.. 90-100 most of the time.


Hum. Yeah something in the bike fit did it. Go back and work on a refit.

2010-10-10 10:45 AM
in reply to: #3114980

Regular
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Subject: RE: New bike fit, now knee "pain"
If running a lot I think 3 or 4 months is pretty typical.  I rotate three pairs of shoes.  IMHO, people under estimate this issue.
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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » New bike fit, now knee "pain" Rss Feed