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Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon
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 2010-09-29 7:03 PM |
Veteran  667   |  Subject: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half MarathonHere's the story, kind of old news: http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052748704652104575494281497754618-lMyQjAxMTAwMDIwMTEyNDEyWj.html What do you folks think? I'm divided. On the one hand, he was allowed to register, so why is it wrong for him to win? On the other, it's advertised as a women's marathon, is it really fair? |
| 2010-09-29 7:12 PM in reply to: #3124913 |
Elite 4235  Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon It's lame, but part me likes it. A "Mens Only" event would be considered sexist... |
| 2010-09-29 7:15 PM in reply to: #3124926 |
Champion 7495 Schwamalamadingdong! | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon AndrewMT - 2010-09-29 7:12 PM It's lame, but part me likes it. A "Mens Only" event would be considered sexist... i just plain ol' like it. |
| 2010-09-29 7:16 PM in reply to: #3124913 |
Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon If it's a race for women only, male times should not be official. Pretty simple. |
| 2010-09-29 7:17 PM in reply to: #3124926 |
Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon AndrewMT - 2010-09-29 7:12 PM It's lame, but part me likes it. A "Mens Only" event would be considered sexist... You mean like, all of the track and field events since forever? :p |
 2010-09-29 7:42 PM in reply to: #3124932 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2010-09-29 8:02 PM in reply to: #3124913 |
| Champion 4942 Richmond, VA | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon Men can be princesses too. NTTIAWWT. |
| 2010-09-29 8:03 PM in reply to: #3124913 |
| Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon I think that if they accept his race fee, then he's entitled to race. And win. I do not dig all-female race events. Too much estrogen. And I hate the "We're too sweet to compete" vibe. I did one and that was enough to turn me off to doing any others. I read a race report several years ago about an all woman's tri in Orlando (I forget which one). The race report writer was describing how the announcer was, more or less, discouraging a competitive attitude towards the swim start. It was very "We're here to support each other and form bonds, no need to tear into the water." No, we're not. We're here to race. Get on with it. |
| 2010-09-29 8:05 PM in reply to: #3124999 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2010-09-29 8:20 PM in reply to: #3125001 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon "We're here to support each other and form bonds, no need to tear into the water." I got a laugh out of this considering the two pronunciations / meanings of "tear".  |
| 2010-09-29 8:22 PM in reply to: #3124999 |
| Veteran 667 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon Renee - 2010-09-29 8:03 PM I think that if they accept his race fee, then he's entitled to race. And win. I do not dig all-female race events. Too much estrogen. And I hate the "We're too sweet to compete" vibe. I did one and that was enough to turn me off to doing any others. I read a race report several years ago about an all woman's tri in Orlando (I forget which one). The race report writer was describing how the announcer was, more or less, discouraging a competitive attitude towards the swim start. It was very "We're here to support each other and form bonds, no need to tear into the water." No, we're not. We're here to race. Get on with it. I understand, and I generally agree. But to play devils advocate - if the purpose of the race is to 'support each other and form bonds' then what's wrong with organizing a race for just that purpose? I can see the other side of the issue. There are some real buttholes in transition areas and sometimes people, particularly men, can be a little over competitive to the point of being poor sports - we had a thread on the general form that suggested that kicking someone drafting you on the swim was a good strategy, for example. I know folks who have been screamed at because someone wanted to pass them on the bike leg of the race. Of course, I've encountered a fair share of unpleasantly competitive women too, but generally I think women tend to be more considerate athletes than men do. Some of the races, the Disney Princess Half Marathon being one of them, are required to include both sexes in the race despite the intent is to have an women's marathon. I can see how woman could feel robbed. |
| 2010-09-29 8:24 PM in reply to: #3125027 |
| Champion 7495 Schwamalamadingdong! | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon Johners - 2010-09-29 8:22 PM But to play devils advocate - if the purpose of the race is to 'support each other and form bonds' then what's wrong with organizing a |
| 2010-09-29 8:50 PM in reply to: #3124913 |
| Champion 7704 Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon I did the race the first year. Its actually not a womens only race, men can enter. I think there were maybe 30 men in the field.....I mean really how many men want to run the princess 1/2 marathon and get a nice pink princess race shirt? It is definately marketed to women but they allow men to enter. If you want to win your age group as a guy this is the race for you tho Edited by Socks 2010-09-29 8:51 PM |
| 2010-09-29 8:54 PM in reply to: #3125027 |
| Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon Johners - 2010-09-29 9:22 PM [ I understand, and I generally agree. But to play devils advocate - if the purpose of the race is to 'support each other and form bonds' then what's wrong with organizing a race for just that purpose? They can define whatever purpose they want. It's their baby. All I ask is truth in advertising - don't call it a RACE! I'm all about calling things what they are. If you call it a RACE, then expect competitors and expect competition. And to tell competitors not to race into the water is ridiculous. It's also why I entered into only 1 women's tri and I refuse to enter any of the women's running races. ETA: If I'm toeing the line at a race start and the announcer says "Let's not race into the water. Kumbaya and all that jazz ... " I'm going to be insulted. It's insulting to suggest that women are incapable of competing with each other AND maintaining a good attitude and a hold on their emotions. We aren't weak, mamby-pamby creatures that need to be coddled during a COMPETITION. Women are tough! We can compete and still like each other at the end of the race. We aren't all winners and we don't need some misguided announcer treating us like fragile 4 year olds. Heck, I know competitive 4 year old kids, so that's an insult to them, too! I can see the other side of the issue. There are some real buttholes in transition areas and sometimes people, particularly men, can be a little over competitive to the point of being poor sports - we had a thread on the general form that suggested that kicking someone drafting you on the swim was a good strategy, for example. I know folks who have been screamed at because someone wanted to pass them on the bike leg of the race. Of course, I've encountered a fair share of unpleasantly competitive women too, but generally I think women tend to be more considerate athletes than men do. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! You should try swimming in the 40-44 AG women's wave. They are often melee's. I came home with a nice bruise on my chest after a friendly sprint. It was full-contact, aggressive swimming for about 3/4 of the swim (until I could pull out of and in front of the rest of the pack that hadn't already pulled ahead of me). Women can be poor sports. Women can be EXTREMELY aggressive. Women get pissed when they lose. Women get territorial in transition. Women are not the gentle, caring, tender-hearted competitors you seem to imagine them to be. If someone screamed at them as they passed another competitor, I don't think they'd dissolve into tears. Some might. But most wouldn't. I wanted to kick someone who was drafting off me. But I didn't. I resisted the urge. The point is, however, that I had the urge. I do confess to swimming over someone who kept trying to get ahead by swimming over me. Gave me the impetus to speed up; too bad she was in my way. If you don't want full-contact swimming, then don't make contact with me during the swim. Some of the races, the Disney Princess Half Marathon being one of them, are required to include both sexes in the race despite the intent is to have an women's marathon. I can see how woman could feel robbed. They could feel robbed, but I would not describe it as a rational response. Robbed suggests that something that is rightfully yours was taken by someone who is not entitled to take it. Anyone who pays an entry fee is entitled to win. I would call it "losing" vs being robbed. Unless the rules state "Awards will be given ONLY to women" then women should have zero expectation that awards will be given ONLY to women. Edited by Renee 2010-09-29 9:23 PM |
| 2010-09-29 9:36 PM in reply to: #3124934 |
| Veteran 698 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon UWMadTri - 2010-09-29 5:17 PM AndrewMT - 2010-09-29 7:12 PM It's lame, but part me likes it. A "Mens Only" event would be considered sexist... You mean like, all of the track and field events since forever? :p Which is why Title IX came into being. Try finding a "Male only" race today. Who would dare have such a sexist thing? But for women it's ok, it seems. Well, I suppose that if there are women who feel that they have no chance playing on a level field, then they need this sort of discrimination, to give them at least some chance of feeling good. |
| 2010-09-29 9:38 PM in reply to: #3124932 |
| Veteran 698 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon UWMadTri - 2010-09-29 5:16 PM If it's a race for women only, male times should not be official. Pretty simple. If men are allowed to register, and pay the fee, then there times are as official as anyone else's. Pretty simple. |
| 2010-09-29 10:02 PM in reply to: #3124913 |
| Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon I do not see the big deal. How many of the top races have a men and women winner and I think several if not all of them give the same prize money? If they did the same thing then is it a problem? Maybe since girls would get less prizes. instead of women only race how about a women only prizes? Is that sexiest or a problem? |
| 2010-09-29 11:43 PM in reply to: #3124966 |
| Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon PennState - 2010-09-29 7:42 PM UWMadTri - 2010-09-29 8:16 PM If it's a race for women only, male times should not be official. Pretty simple. Pretty black and white world for you huh? You extrapolated my world views based on a gender issue for a half marathon? The Penn State psychology department must be pretty underrated! To answer your question though, yes. It's a race for women, not men. Do you not remember Caster Semanaya? |
| 2010-09-29 11:52 PM in reply to: #3125111 |
| Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon r1237h - 2010-09-29 9:36 PM UWMadTri - 2010-09-29 5:17 PM AndrewMT - 2010-09-29 7:12 PM It's lame, but part me likes it. A "Mens Only" event would be considered sexist... You mean like, all of the track and field events since forever? :p Which is why Title IX came into being. Try finding a "Male only" race today. Who would dare have such a sexist thing? But for women it's ok, it seems. Well, I suppose that if there are women who feel that they have no chance playing on a level field, then they need this sort of discrimination, to give them at least some chance of feeling good. Waitwaitwait, you're defending the men that said they entered this race so that they'd have a chance to win and then you attack women "to give them at least some chance of feeling good." o_0 I don't see how this is leveling any playing field whatsoever. There are male and female overall winners. They don't compete against each other in any race, they simply race at the same time. The race is likely marketed heavily towards women because there are some women who *gasp* don't feel comfortable around men. It's why Curves exists and it's why women's self-defense classes exist and it's why a freaking PRINCESS marathon exists. Quite frankly, if you're stupid enough to enter the race as a male, you deserve any negative attention you get. |
| 2010-09-29 11:54 PM in reply to: #3124913 |
| Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon Did he register legally per the race rules? Did he complete the course and cross the line in the fastest time? Guess the girls should get faster if they want to win P.S. Blame the lawyers Edited by ChrisM 2010-09-29 11:54 PM |
| 2010-09-29 11:57 PM in reply to: #3125192 |
| Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon ChrisM - 2010-09-29 11:54 PM Guess the girls should get faster if they want to win http://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/Content/Articles/Sports-And-Fitness/W/Women-of-the-Future-Are-On-Track-to-Run-Faster-Than-Men.aspx |
| 2010-09-30 12:11 AM in reply to: #3125191 |
| Veteran 698 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon UWMadTri - 2010-09-29 9:52 PM r1237h - 2010-09-29 9:36 PM UWMadTri - 2010-09-29 5:17 PM AndrewMT - 2010-09-29 7:12 PM It's lame, but part me likes it. A "Mens Only" event would be considered sexist... You mean like, all of the track and field events since forever? :p Which is why Title IX came into being. Try finding a "Male only" race today. Who would dare have such a sexist thing? But for women it's ok, it seems. Well, I suppose that if there are women who feel that they have no chance playing on a level field, then they need this sort of discrimination, to give them at least some chance of feeling good. Waitwaitwait, you're defending the men that said they entered this race so that they'd have a chance to win and then you attack women "to give them at least some chance of feeling good." o_0 I don't see how this is leveling any playing field whatsoever. There are male and female overall winners. They don't compete against each other in any race, they simply race at the same time. The race is likely marketed heavily towards women because there are some women who *gasp* don't feel comfortable around men. It's why Curves exists and it's why women's self-defense classes exist and it's why a freaking PRINCESS marathon exists. Quite frankly, if you're stupid enough to enter the race as a male, you deserve any negative attention you get. Really? I'd say that the demands of whatever educational establishment you went to had minimal requirements to pass "logical thinking". Thought you would enjoy this sort of comment, from what I saw of your previous post. As for the men who took part in the race, for whatever reason, I don't really care about them, so "defending" them is the last thing on my mind. i am simply against the idea of discriminating against the men, just as I would be against discriminating against women. You don't have a problem with this? No sweat, we are all allowed an opinion. And if you consider my disagreement with discrimination as an "attack" against those that discriminate, then no problem. I won't argue the point. As for the rest of your rant, four points: First, there were not male and female winners. There was a female winner, no doubt, and there were male runners who were heckled or ignored for daring to win. Second, yes, there are quite a few examples of discrimination that women carry out, the same women who no doubt be outraged for the same to happen to them. thanks for giving a few examples. Third, For the men that are uncomfortable with women around while they run, perhaps a "men only" race? Oh, wait, that's a no-no. Sorry, my bad. Lastly, The only stupidity i can see with daring to take part in the race is to expect fairness and adult behavior from the organizers and crowd. |
| 2010-09-30 12:13 AM in reply to: #3124913 |
| Veteran 667 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon I didn't want to create a giant post, just wanted respond to this part;"Women can be poor sports. Women can be EXTREMELY aggressive. Women get pissed when they lose. Women get territorial in transition. Women are not the gentle, caring, tender-hearted competitors you seem to imagine them to be. If someone screamed at them as they passed another competitor, I don't think they'd dissolve into tears. Some might. But most wouldn't."I didn't really say that I thought women were gentle, ect., competitors. What I said is that, generally, I have noticed women are more considerate competitors. That's not to say, or even imply, that women are soft competitors. I'm considerate, too, but that doesn't mean I'm a push over. I just want to be clear on that point. |
| 2010-09-30 12:45 AM in reply to: #3125203 |
| Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon r1237h - 2010-09-30 12:11 AM UWMadTri - 2010-09-29 9:52 PM r1237h - 2010-09-29 9:36 PM UWMadTri - 2010-09-29 5:17 PM AndrewMT - 2010-09-29 7:12 PM It's lame, but part me likes it. A "Mens Only" event would be considered sexist... You mean like, all of the track and field events since forever? :p Which is why Title IX came into being. Try finding a "Male only" race today. Who would dare have such a sexist thing? But for women it's ok, it seems. Well, I suppose that if there are women who feel that they have no chance playing on a level field, then they need this sort of discrimination, to give them at least some chance of feeling good. Waitwaitwait, you're defending the men that said they entered this race so that they'd have a chance to win and then you attack women "to give them at least some chance of feeling good." o_0 I don't see how this is leveling any playing field whatsoever. There are male and female overall winners. They don't compete against each other in any race, they simply race at the same time. The race is likely marketed heavily towards women because there are some women who *gasp* don't feel comfortable around men. It's why Curves exists and it's why women's self-defense classes exist and it's why a freaking PRINCESS marathon exists. Quite frankly, if you're stupid enough to enter the race as a male, you deserve any negative attention you get. Really? I'd say that the demands of whatever educational establishment you went to had minimal requirements to pass "logical thinking". Thought you would enjoy this sort of comment, from what I saw of your previous post. If you're going question my "logical thinking", could you at least point out the specific fallacies of my logic? It makes my learning process much more effective. As for the men who took part in the race, for whatever reason, I don't really care about them, so "defending" them is the last thing on my mind. i am simply against the idea of discriminating against the men, just as I would be against discriminating against women. You don't have a problem with this? No sweat, we are all allowed an opinion. And if you consider my disagreement with discrimination as an "attack" against those that discriminate, then no problem. I won't argue the point. I apologize if I incorrectly made the assumption that you were defending them. First, there were not male and female winners. There was a female winner, no doubt, and there were male runners who were heckled or ignored for daring to win. Right, because it was a race for women. My exact point was that there are no gender groups in this race because it is a race for a single gender. Second, yes, there are quite a few examples of discrimination that women carry out, the same women who no doubt be outraged for the same to happen to them. thanks for giving a few examples. Discrimination is a term that shouldn't be tossed around too lightly and your wanton use of it is what prompted me to respond to you. If you'll recall, women aren't exactly given equal status in America. Oh sure, since 1920 it's gotten significantly better, but there are still some barriers to get through. The reason that we don't have all male races is simply because the majority group never has to assert itself. The University of Madison-Wisconsin (incidentally, this college with poor critical thinking credentials is considered a Public Ivy) has a degree for Afro-American Studies and Women's Studies, yet no degrees for Anglo-Saxon Studies or Rich White Guy Studies. Do you find any particular discrimination with their choice of degree programs? Third, For the men that are uncomfortable with women around while they run, perhaps a "men only" race? Oh, wait, that's a no-no. Sorry, my bad. Could you please introduce me to those men? Creating fictional characters does not an argument make. See your first statement directed at me, re: critical thinking. Oh and for statistical purposes, I'll need a sample size of larger than 30. Incidentally, my sample size of women that don't want to be physically fit around men are the approximately 4 million members of Curves gym. Lastly, The only stupidity i can see with daring to take part in the race is to expect fairness and adult behavior from the organizers and crowd. The organizers created a race for women. The crowd came to see a race for women. If you've ever been to a race, you'll know that the crowds go crazy for the first place winner and the subsequent people that finish get a little less love from the crowd. This obviously does not apply post 9:00pm at an IM-distance race, but the point is that the guy that entered a race for women was taking away that feeling for the podium finishing females. They created confusion within the crowd and with the organizers, likely creating an ambiguous result for the first woman to come through. The announcer and crowds were probably stunned that a guy would be dumb enough to try and win a race for 11,000 women, hence their reaction. If I was there, I would have reacted the same way. |
| 2010-09-30 1:34 AM in reply to: #3125210 |
| Veteran 698 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on man winning the Disney Princess Half Marathon I can never figure out the whole quotes thingee, so I will answer point by point.
The specific fallacies of your logic was assuming that I was defending the men in the race when I didn't ever mention them. In fact, I didn't even refer to them.
It was a race that both genders were allowed to partake in, like it or not. Therefore, hard as it may be to accept, a winner, who is legally part of the race, is the winner. Even if the winner carries a Y chromosome (“gasp”!!!). This is not a case of sneaking into the race, for whatever reason, and violating a rule. He followed the rules, he paid the fee. Deal with the fact that he won.
Discrimination is discrimination. You want to sugar coat it and make excuses, go right ahead. It was wrong, and still is, when done against women. Having women do it doesn't make it any better. And let's be honest, shall we? The reason that we don't have all male races is NOT simply because the majority group never has to assert itself, but because if that were to happen, the organizers would be in court before they could blink. And would you be leaping to their defence?
Could you please introduce me to those men? Creating fictional characters does not an argument make. See your first statement directed at me, re: critical thinking. Oh and for statistical purposes, I'll need a sample size of larger than 30.
Since I don't know 30 women, let alone more, who believe in discriminating against men, I guess this race never took place, according to your logic. As for men who are uncomfortable running with women, I'm not too crazy about it myself. Not enough for your statistics, so you will have to manage with only one example. On the other hand, I personally don't know any woman who has a problem running with men, so I guess this isn't true, unless proven otherwise. Just post the sworn testimonials of over 30 women. As for your attempt at humour with the Curves membership, I know enough people who go to women only gym because it is convenient, or for other reasons having nothing to do with men. Try again.
My condolences that the crowd and organizers were stunned that a man dared win. Perhaps they should grow up.
As for the University of Madison-Wisconsin's degree's for Afro-American Studies and Women's Studies, are men or non-Afro-American bared from participating? Are they allowed to have good grades? Are the teachers and other students “stunned” if men or non-Afro-American take part in these classes, and do well? Then no, I have no problem with these degree's. As for the degrees for Anglo-Saxon Studies or Rich White Guy Studies, I personally would not be interested, but I would object to a ruling that such degree's are not allowed. That whole me being against discrimination thingee you seem to have a problem grasping. |
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