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Triathlete Profile holds True Again (Page 2)
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 2010-10-15 11:05 AM in reply to: #3154302 |
Extreme Veteran 458  |  Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Againtkd.teacher - 2010-10-15 10:41 AM Mmmmm.....no. Hypoxic training does absolutely nothing for you, and is a myth. And you aren't delivering "more" oxygen to your muscles in OWS because you aren't flip turning, you'd have to be holding your breath for a LOT longer than a flip turn before your blood O2 saturation dipped at all. The hypoxic debate has raged forever. I agree there is little actual physical benefit from hypoxic sets. BUT, I still do hypoxic work 1-2X a week (maybe 800 yds/meters or less). My reasoning is that in a race I'm going to go hypoxic on the last 50 or 100 or even 150 if it is 500 +. I need to know what that feels like and that I won't die and to figure out how to swim fast through/with it. If you've never gone hypoxic in a race and you aren't prepared for it it can be crushing. |
| 2010-10-15 11:16 AM in reply to: #3154347 |
Champion 8540     the colony texas | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again I'm just amazed that 200 to 250 are considered long sets. |
| 2010-10-15 11:24 AM in reply to: #3154374 |
| Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again Gaarryy - 2010-10-15 11:16 AM I'm just amazed that 200 to 250 are considered long sets. Do 15 X 200 @2:30 if it amazes you so and report back. |
| 2010-10-15 11:29 AM in reply to: #3153871 |
Veteran 348 Cincinnati | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again wow, I didn’t think this would be so popular..... I as well can do flip turns, i usually do them when i am doing hard, fast sprints, and yes i have found myself cheating and taking and extra breath when not doing flip turns. Having been a life guard for 9 years i have come to realize that not doing flip turns definitely doesn’t make you a novice by any means. Same thing went for a guy i ran track with in high school, he ran the 200m and never used the blocks.. People would give him a hard time till he smoked everyone in the race. |
| 2010-10-15 11:32 AM in reply to: #3154393 |
Veteran 348 Cincinnati | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again H20 Killer - 2010-10-15 12:24 PM Gaarryy - 2010-10-15 11:16 AM I'm just amazed that 200 to 250 are considered long sets. Do 15 X 200 @2:30 if it amazes you so and report back. Trust me he wasnt going at a leisure pace either.....He knew what he was doing, i asked him how long he has been racing and he said off and on for the past 10 years. |
| 2010-10-15 11:35 AM in reply to: #3154374 |
| Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again Gaarryy - 2010-10-15 9:16 AM I'm just amazed that 200 to 250 are considered long sets. I'm just amazed that we're having the flip turn debate...... again Jesus people. Do them, don't do them. Whatever. Why all the judgment? "He doesn't flip must be a triathlete". "He flips must be a swimmer." I'm a pretty good swimmer, I've got folks in my masters that don't flip that swim as fast as and even faster than me. So what. I think flip turns are good, but makes no difference whether you do them or not as long as you are getting your training in. |
| 2010-10-15 11:40 AM in reply to: #3154405 |
| Extreme Veteran 458 | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again The Dude14 - 2010-10-15 11:29 AM wow, I didn’t think this would be so popular..... I as well can do flip turns, i usually do them when i am doing hard, fast sprints, and yes i have found myself cheating and taking and extra breath when not doing flip turns. Having been a life guard for 9 years i have come to realize that not doing flip turns definitely doesn’t make you a novice by any means. Same thing went for a guy i ran track with in high school, he ran the 200m and never used the blocks.. People would give him a hard time till he smoked everyone in the race. When was the last time anyone won any pool swim event (free or back) and didn't do a flip turn? |
| 2010-10-15 11:45 AM in reply to: #3154435 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again H20 Killer - 2010-10-15 9:40 AM The Dude14 - 2010-10-15 11:29 AM wow, I didn’t think this would be so popular..... I as well can do flip turns, i usually do them when i am doing hard, fast sprints, and yes i have found myself cheating and taking and extra breath when not doing flip turns. Having been a life guard for 9 years i have come to realize that not doing flip turns definitely doesn’t make you a novice by any means. Same thing went for a guy i ran track with in high school, he ran the 200m and never used the blocks.. People would give him a hard time till he smoked everyone in the race. When was the last time anyone won any pool swim event (free or back) and didn't do a flip turn? Probably last weekend. I'm sure somewhere in a swim meet someone did it. What's your point? This is a beginning triathlon website. The vast majority of people here are going to be new swimmers, and even a lot of experienced swimmers that just don't do flip turns. Not really necessary. No offense, but you're coming across initially as "just another ex swimmer snob". The purpose of the site is to help people get used to the sport, offer advice and encourage, not beat them down. John |
| 2010-10-15 11:48 AM in reply to: #3154435 |
Veteran 348 Cincinnati | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again H20 Killer - 2010-10-15 12:40 PM The Dude14 - 2010-10-15 11:29 AM wow, I didn’t think this would be so popular..... I as well can do flip turns, i usually do them when i am doing hard, fast sprints, and yes i have found myself cheating and taking and extra breath when not doing flip turns. Having been a life guard for 9 years i have come to realize that not doing flip turns definitely doesn’t make you a novice by any means. Same thing went for a guy i ran track with in high school, he ran the 200m and never used the blocks.. People would give him a hard time till he smoked everyone in the race. When was the last time anyone won any pool swim event (free or back) and didn't do a flip turn? Dont know i have never seen that... Are you saying that just because someone doesnt compete in swim meets it makes them a novice swimmer??? Tell that to some to the BTers who live on the coast or are always swimming in open water, having to deal with currents, waves, debris... I havent found any of that in a pool. |
| 2010-10-15 11:55 AM in reply to: #3153871 |
Master 2356 Westlake Village , Ca. | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again Honestly....I think my fuel belt is what gives me away. |
| 2010-10-15 12:00 PM in reply to: #3154466 |
Extreme Veteran 454 Torrance/Carson | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again Fastyellow - 2010-10-15 9:55 AM Honestly....I think my fuel belt is what gives me away. Not the aero helmet? Since it's so useful on the bike, imagine the gains to be had in the water. |
| 2010-10-15 12:17 PM in reply to: #3154456 |
Expert 1111 Albuquerque, NM | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again The Dude14 - 2010-10-15 10:48 AM Tell that to some to the BTers who live on the coast or are always swimming in open water, having to deal with currents, waves, debris... I havent found any of that in a pool. You've never swam in the lane next to a large water aerobics class?? I do flip turns while training - it's more for "continuity" than anything else. |
| 2010-10-15 12:20 PM in reply to: #3154070 |
Expert 1111 Albuquerque, NM | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again rgretsof - 2010-10-15 8:22 AM To me, swimming is the "necessary evil" when it comes to triathlons. Funny, I feel the same way about running... |
| 2010-10-15 12:46 PM in reply to: #3154347 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again H20 Killer - 2010-10-15 12:05 PM tkd.teacher - 2010-10-15 10:41 AM Mmmmm.....no. Hypoxic training does absolutely nothing for you, and is a myth. And you aren't delivering "more" oxygen to your muscles in OWS because you aren't flip turning, you'd have to be holding your breath for a LOT longer than a flip turn before your blood O2 saturation dipped at all. The hypoxic debate has raged forever. I agree there is little actual physical benefit from hypoxic sets. BUT, I still do hypoxic work 1-2X a week (maybe 800 yds/meters or less). My reasoning is that in a race I'm going to go hypoxic on the last 50 or 100 or even 150 if it is 500 +. I need to know what that feels like and that I won't die and to figure out how to swim fast through/with it. If you've never gone hypoxic in a race and you aren't prepared for it it can be crushing. Unless you mean that you don't breath as much in the last part of the swim, I'm guessing that you actually mean you go anaerobic at the end. Hypoxic work doesn't do anything to improve your anaerobic performance. Flip turns/no flip turns...who cares. Even though any skill that makes you more-rounded in one of the disciplines (flip turns, ability to swim different strokes, bike handling skills such as pace-lining, etc) will contribute to your performance, it's up to the individual which skills they put the time in to develop. None of these things are right or wrong for triathletes, because they're not necessary, they're complementary. |
| 2010-10-15 12:55 PM in reply to: #3154042 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again moondawg14 - 2010-10-15 7:15 AM flip18436572 - 2010-10-14 9:49 AM Why is not doing flip turns giving it away? I swim with an IM triathlete and she does flip turns at all of her workouts. Chances are she swam comptetively at one point. People who "get into" swimming just for triathlons will swim long sets, but don't know how to do flip turns, and generally won't learn, as you don't really need them during OWS. I CAN do flip turns (swam competetively as a kid) but generally DON'T unless I'm doing a set just to see how fast I can do them. X2. |
| 2010-10-15 1:22 PM in reply to: #3154478 |
Extreme Veteran 584 Puyallup, WA | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again tophermcdougall - 2010-10-15 12:00 PM Fastyellow - 2010-10-15 9:55 AM Honestly....I think my fuel belt is what gives me away. Not the aero helmet? Since it's so useful on the bike, imagine the gains to be had in the water. Will have to add the fuel belt and aero helmet to my next swim ... Then I can blame my slow swim on the seat being too high --Eric |
| 2010-10-15 1:29 PM in reply to: #3153871 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again To the OP: I agree that there are definitely some tells when it comes to picking out triathletes in the pool. Just like you know a new cyclist to a group ride when he/she shows up in a tshirt. Nothing good or bad about it, just a tell. Turns...not even worth arguing to me. 99% of those who can do an effective flip turn will do one. |
| 2010-10-15 1:47 PM in reply to: #3154675 |
Extreme Veteran 584 Puyallup, WA | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again tjfry - 2010-10-15 1:29 PM To the OP: I agree that there are definitely some tells when it comes to picking out triathletes in the pool. Just like you know a new cyclist to a group ride when he/she shows up in a tshirt. Nothing good or bad about it, just a tell. Turns...not even worth arguing to me. 99% of those who can do an effective flip turn will do one. I swim 4 to 5 times a week at the Y. I've been able to pick out the Tri-folks. We are just too obvious. |
| 2010-10-15 1:50 PM in reply to: #3153871 |
Veteran 295 Ft Campbell, Kentucky | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again As I did no swim training this year at all, made for an interesting HIM at Steelhead too...........lol When I was swimming, I was swimming in a German schwimbad, full of people. If the pool was crowded, and it usually was, I did open turns just so I would not run into anyone. Same thing if I am sharing a lane, I will do some open ones just to make sure I dont run into the other person. If I am lucky and have a lane all to myself, flip turns. I do have a swimming background though. And yes, I have timed myself between open and flip.....in the course of a mile, my flip turn mile is several minutes faster! |
| 2010-10-15 2:01 PM in reply to: #3153871 |
Veteran 217 Alexandria, VA | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again Seems to me the strongest argument for flipturns, if you have the choice of doing them or not, is to build your core. It's like swimming AND ab crunches all at once. Strong core = better overall performance right? |
| 2010-10-15 2:04 PM in reply to: #3154731 |
Master 2380 Beijing | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again Akrakowski - 2010-10-14 3:01 PM Seems to me the strongest argument for flipturns, if you have the choice of doing them or not, is to build your core. It's like swimming AND ab crunches all at once. Strong core = better overall performance right? Dude, that was awesome. I've never seen anyone take a "flip turn thread" and turn it into a "strength training thread." Well played. |
| 2010-10-15 2:09 PM in reply to: #3153871 |
Veteran 348 Cincinnati | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again I hope I see this guy swimming again. "you not doing flip turns made for a great blog on BT" |
| 2010-10-15 2:11 PM in reply to: #3154733 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again Mmmmm.....no. Hypoxic training does absolutely nothing for you, and is a myth. Actually it does help in one aspect: it prepares you to deal with missing a breath. You are probably getting dunked, swam over or pushed around on your OWS at some point in time, or swimming in choppy water. |
| 2010-10-15 2:14 PM in reply to: #3154743 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again spudone - 2010-10-15 12:11 PM Mmmmm.....no. Hypoxic training does absolutely nothing for you, and is a myth. Actually it does help in one aspect: it prepares you to deal with missing a breath. You are probably getting dunked, swam over or pushed around on your OWS at some point in time, or swimming in choppy water. Yes, I meant in a physiological sense. John |
| 2010-10-15 2:18 PM in reply to: #3154731 |
Extreme Veteran 626 South Florida | Subject: RE: Triathlete Profile holds True Again Akrakowski - 2010-10-15 2:01 PM Seems to me the strongest argument for flipturns, if you have the choice of doing them or not, is to build your core. It's like swimming AND ab crunches all at once. Strong core = better overall performance right? I really think I might start doing them now. |
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