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2010-10-21 5:42 PM

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Subject: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
I was at a talk this week, and the speaker threw this aphorism out.  The more I thought about it, the more annoyed I was with it.  Partly because I know from numerous studies that people who are the least skilled or knowledgeable about something are the most confident in their own abilities.  Or rather, overconfident.  The movie "Waiting for Superman" illustrates this point nicely, if you have seen any of the clips, where the kids in the US have the lowest scores in math but the most confidence in their abilities.

If I decide that I could take out someone's appendix (I still remember the point you make the incision; I've seen them done in med school; I am pretty handy at the Thanksgiving table), and decide "I can do that!", I am, in all likelihood, wrong.  And it turns out, in many of the same studies I mentioned above, that the people who most accurately assess their skills are the ones at the top of their game/field. So whether they think they can or they can't is based not on some sort of misplaced confidence and phony self-esteem aphorism, but on hard-won experiences and self-knowledge.

So, what platitudes drive you nuts?


2010-10-21 6:35 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Champion
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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
I don't think that's what Mr. Ford had in mind when he said it... he didn't just magic up the Model T... but he did have a vision and took the steps to make that vision a reality.

He also believed in learning and hard work.

Foreshadowing... this thread going down an "Atlas Shrugged" road.
2010-10-21 6:38 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
Taken extremely literally, I see your point.  But honestly, I like the phrase and think its true within reason.  Obviously, if you think you can jump over the moon, you're wrong.  Take your own example, though.  If you think you can take out an appendix, I think you probably can.  It may mean going to school for 10 years first.  But ultimately, you can do it.

I think Kona qualifying is a great example of the phrase.  I truly believe that if most people worked as hard as they could, year after year, they could qualify.

My .02
2010-10-21 6:43 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Elite
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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
More towards your thread though... I always disliked the phrase, "have your cake and eat it too."  Every time I see or hear it I think:

have = eat.

So in my mind I hear, "So, you want to eat your cake and eat it too."  Well of course I want to eat my cake. 
2010-10-21 6:44 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
Not that one.

Me thinks perhaps you are being a tad too literal?
I don't think it is to say that one should become whatever it is one so desires...today...and operate...at the dining room table...just because one thinks one can.

Perhaps it is to say that positive thought and hard work is more likely to lead to success than self-defeatism?
I think I can get in medical school...work hard...whoa got in...
I don't think I can get in medical school...that party looks fun...

Taking out an appendix is a different course...but...I would like my surgeon to be pretty sure that he/she can do it when the knife hits skin...and yes, I have operated with surgeons with paralyzing self doubt, and yes...I finished the case for them... 
2010-10-21 6:46 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
the quote that always gets on my nerves...

"I have never taken illegal performance enhancing drugs"

- by multiple sources


2010-10-21 6:50 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
Really?  So it means if I think I can jump out of my 24th floor and fly, I really can't???   Who knew?????
2010-10-21 6:57 PM
in reply to: #3165924

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
ChrisM - 2010-10-21 7:50 PM Really?  So it means if I think I can jump out of my 24th floor and fly, I really can't???   Who knew?????


Depends on your definition of flying.   My guess says you fly for, oh, 4-6 seconds.
2010-10-21 7:05 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
To answer your question:

Yes I tried pot...but I didn't inhale.
I did not have sex with that woman (one of the most condescending/sexist things I have heard
But is was all made "ok" with "this was all a vast right wing conspiracy"
Snerk

Oh heck...you wanted platitudes...not quotes...
Google...

 Platitudes? Yes, there are platitudes. Platitudes are there because they are true. 
Margaret Thatcher 

Speakers are not supposed to waste time on platitudes, but the capacity of this generation for ignoring the obvious and concentrating on the negative and the obscure is immense. 
Arthur H. Sulzberger  

What is all wisdom save a collection of platitudes? 
Norman Douglas  

Literature is the orchestration of platitudes. 
Thornton Wilder  

 Oh crud...I am supposed to be saying platitudes that drive me nuts...not cool quotes...

How about this:

Rules for Interacting With Foreigners 

Don’t ask about income or expenses, don’t ask about age, don’t ask about love life or marriage, don’t ask about health, don’t ask about someone’s home or address, don’t ask about personal experience, don’t ask about religious beliefs or political views, don’t ask what someone does...

 
2010-10-21 7:25 PM
in reply to: #3165924

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
ChrisM - 2010-10-21 4:50 PM Really?  So it means if I think I can jump out of my 24th floor and fly, I really can't???   Who knew?????


That's not flying! It's falling, with style.
2010-10-21 7:40 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Elite
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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
Sometimes we need to limit mental masturbation.

It's one of my favorite quotes. 


2010-10-21 7:52 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
I know my take on it is a literalist one.  But the reason that quote drives my nuts is that the idea behind it is also behind the poorly thought out "self esteem" movement of the 1990's, which, as I see it, led to a serious decline in actual accomplishment and achievement.  Saying "I know I can!" without having a realistic assessment of one's abilities is a big old load.

But as I said, that is just the one that makes me bananas.  I am sure other people are bothered by other platitudes.  I'm not asking people to defend that one.  Just curious what other people find annoying when they hear it over and over and think every time "What a load of...."
2010-10-21 8:07 PM
in reply to: #3165917

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
Leegoocrap - 2010-10-21 7:46 PM the quote that always gets on my nerves...

"I have never KNOWINGLY taken illegal performance enhancing drugs"

- by multiple sources


FIFY
2010-10-21 8:10 PM
in reply to: #3165994

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
gearboy - 2010-10-21 8:52 PM I know my take on it is a literalist one.  But the reason that quote drives my nuts is that the idea behind it is also behind the poorly thought out "self esteem" movement of the 1990's, which, as I see it, led to a serious decline in actual accomplishment and achievement.  Saying "I know I can!" without having a realistic assessment of one's abilities is a big old load.

But as I said, that is just the one that makes me bananas.  I am sure other people are bothered by other platitudes.  I'm not asking people to defend that one.  Just curious what other people find annoying when they hear it over and over and think every time "What a load of...."


this man would disagree... and he's a Giant...

2010-10-21 8:10 PM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
So, what platitudes drive you nuts?

Anything from Star Wars.  It's a movie not a religion.
2010-10-21 9:52 PM
in reply to: #3165908

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
steveseer - 2010-10-21 7:38 PM

Taken extremely literally, I see your point.  But honestly, I like the phrase and think its true within reason.  Obviously, if you think you can jump over the moon, you're wrong.  Take your own example, though.  If you think you can take out an appendix, I think you probably can.  It may mean going to school for 10 years first.  But ultimately, you can do it.

I think Kona qualifying is a great example of the phrase.  I truly believe that if most people worked as hard as they could, year after year, they could qualify.

My .02


Kind of echoes my thoughts too.

Sure there are limits/boundaries, but how many people DON'T achieve what they're capable of ? I would guess more than a few. If you think the phrase is annoying, it is, ... if you don't, it's not.....J/K !

Edited by tri42 2010-10-21 9:52 PM


2010-10-21 10:03 PM
in reply to: #3166124

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
tri42 - 2010-10-21 10:52 PM
steveseer - 2010-10-21 7:38 PM Taken extremely literally, I see your point.  But honestly, I like the phrase and think its true within reason.  Obviously, if you think you can jump over the moon, you're wrong.  Take your own example, though.  If you think you can take out an appendix, I think you probably can.  It may mean going to school for 10 years first.  But ultimately, you can do it.

I think Kona qualifying is a great example of the phrase.  I truly believe that if most people worked as hard as they could, year after year, they could qualify.

My .02
Kind of echoes my thoughts too. Sure there are limits/boundaries, but how many people DON'T achieve what they're capable of ? I would guess more than a few. If you think the phrase is annoying, it is, ... if you don't, it's not.....J/K !


OK - here's an example of the nonsense I think this inspires:  The first few episodes every year of American Idol.  Plenty of people CONVINCED they are excellent singers.  Convinced, beyond any form of doubt and with plenty of evidence to the contrary (and presumably at least ONE friend in the world who should be trying to talk some sense to them), that THEY are destined for musical greatness.  Despite the obviously stricken and horrified looks on the judges.  Who then come out and loudly proclaim that THEY will, in fact, become a great musical talent, despite what the judges think.  I'm sorry, but one William Hung making a "career" out of "She Bang" not only is NOT evidence to the contrary, but it was actually his humble gratitude after his awful performance that helped give him his 15 minutes, not any certainty that he could accomplish his stated goal. 

And then of course, there are those people who seem genuinely surprised that they are getting as far in the competition as they do.  And yet, they are clearly talented individuals.

But again, like I said, it is a phrase I personally find annoying. What, no one else has over-used trite phrases that make them want to punch the speaker in the head?
2010-10-21 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
"God has a plan."

This is usually offered in some completely inappropriate situation or context, like trauma or tragedy.
2010-10-21 10:32 PM
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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
TriAya - 2010-10-21 11:16 PM "God has a plan."

This is usually offered in some completely inappropriate situation or context, like trauma or tragedy.


Thanks for getting my point, Yanti.  As a heathan, I never say this, but you are right - it does seem to be offered when bad things happen.  It's never "You got engaged? Well, I guess God has a plan"; or "You got a big promotion?  Well, God has a plan".  No, it's more like "You just got diagnosed with a terminal illness at 35?  Well, God has a plan".  Yeah - apparently it involves making my spouse widowed at a young age, and leaving my kids down a parent, while I end up a shell of my former self to be the last memories they have of me.  Great.
2010-10-21 11:26 PM
in reply to: #3166132

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
gearboy - 2010-10-21 11:03 PM

tri42 - 2010-10-21 10:52 PM
steveseer - 2010-10-21 7:38 PM Taken extremely literally, I see your point.  But honestly, I like the phrase and think its true within reason.  Obviously, if you think you can jump over the moon, you're wrong.  Take your own example, though.  If you think you can take out an appendix, I think you probably can.  It may mean going to school for 10 years first.  But ultimately, you can do it.

I think Kona qualifying is a great example of the phrase.  I truly believe that if most people worked as hard as they could, year after year, they could qualify.

My .02
Kind of echoes my thoughts too. Sure there are limits/boundaries, but how many people DON'T achieve what they're capable of ? I would guess more than a few. If you think the phrase is annoying, it is, ... if you don't, it's not.....J/K !


OK - here's an example of the nonsense I think this inspires:  The first few episodes every year of American Idol.  Plenty of people CONVINCED they are excellent singers.  Convinced, beyond any form of doubt and with plenty of evidence to the contrary (and presumably at least ONE friend in the world who should be trying to talk some sense to them), that THEY are destined for musical greatness.  Despite the obviously stricken and horrified looks on the judges.  Who then come out and loudly proclaim that THEY will, in fact, become a great musical talent, despite what the judges think.  I'm sorry, but one William Hung making a "career" out of "She Bang" not only is NOT evidence to the contrary, but it was actually his humble gratitude after his awful performance that helped give him his 15 minutes, not any certainty that he could accomplish his stated goal. 

And then of course, there are those people who seem genuinely surprised that they are getting as far in the competition as they do.  And yet, they are clearly talented individuals.

But again, like I said, it is a phrase I personally find annoying. What, no one else has over-used trite phrases that make them want to punch the speaker in the head?


Understood completely.....I just see it a different way. Reality will take care of whether people can sing, or do surgery, or Ironmans, or whatever. The real world, reality, etc. has NO PROBLEM showing up all the time/everywhere. I just see the quote as being more of an analogy to having a positive attitude... and also a little dreaming every now and then is not a bad thing. We get so much reality that we need an escape every now and then... if it's not based on real talent/facts/whatever... who cares.... reality sorts it out pretty successfully in the end. But I can also relate to hearing the same old cliches from "motivational" speakers......and it tires me too.

Edited by tri42 2010-10-21 11:29 PM
2010-10-22 1:18 AM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
"I gave it 110%!"

If you had given 100% in math class we'd all be better off.




"There's no I in TEAM".

Nope, but don't forget the U in BUTTHEAD.



Now c'mon Tri'Aya and Gearhead, for buttloads boatloads of people 'God has a plan for everyone' is a belief, not a platitude. Apparently God's plan for you two tonight (2 of my favourite BT'ers)  was to have a big brain farht.

  From a fellow (but less well educated) agnostic.






 


2010-10-22 1:34 AM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
I'll add:

"It could be worse"
    (yeah, it could be your heart failing)

 
"This hurts me more than it hurts you"
       (OK Mom, lets stick the needle in your ar## and make sure)   


"Nobody dies wishing they had spent more time at the office"
      (unless, of course, your dying because you can't afford proper health care due to all those sick days spent at the beach)

Edited by blairrob 2010-10-22 1:58 AM
2010-10-22 6:08 AM
in reply to: #3166021

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
spudone - 2010-10-21 9:10 PM
So, what platitudes drive you nuts?

Anything from Star Wars.  It's a movie not a religion.


Absolutely incorrect my friend.

Link here to the Church of Jediism

Yes, I've been... there's one in Nashville. Everyone wears a hoody with the hood pulled up.

2010-10-22 6:16 AM
in reply to: #3166229

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...
blairrob - 2010-10-22 2:18 AM "I gave it 110%!"

If you had given 100% in math class we'd all be better off.




"There's no I in TEAM".

Nope, but don't forget the U in BUTTHEAD.



Now c'mon Tri'Aya and Gearhead, for buttloads boatloads of people 'God has a plan for everyone' is a belief, not a platitude. Apparently God's plan for you two tonight (2 of my favourite BT'ers)  was to have a big brain farht.

  From a fellow (but less well educated) agnostic. 



My favorite response to that one is to say "No, but there is an 'M' and and 'E' - which is 'ME'"
2010-10-22 7:36 AM
in reply to: #3165845

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Subject: RE: "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you are right"...

This seems an appropriate clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeVca9MwDX8

(some NSFW language...a stray F-bomb)

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