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2010-11-14 5:49 PM

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Subject: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
I've been looking for such a calculator with no luck.  Anybody know of something like the McMillan running calculator for swimming?

 


2010-11-14 6:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
mrpetey - 2010-11-14 5:49 PM I've been looking for such a calculator with no luck.  Anybody know of something like the McMillan running calculator for swimming?

 


I don't know of one, either.  I'd maybe post this on the OWS board over at USMS.org.  If anyone knows, they will.
2010-11-14 7:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
I tried finding one before with no luck. I do know that for me if I double the distance and add 5% I get pretty close to the time I can swim.
2013-05-15 5:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?

http://www.swimming-calculator.com/

here it is.  don't know how accurate it is, but it's based on the same formula.

 

2013-05-15 7:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
Suzanne Atkinson has a spreadsheet that takes times from almost any two distances and calculates a swimmer's individual fatigue decay rate and projects times for everything from a 100 to an IM swim using advanced math. I've found it to be amazingly accurate. Hopefully, it will be available for use by others either online or as a phone app within the next year. Other than that, I'm not aware of anything else.
2013-05-15 8:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
That online calculator is pretty accurate. I put in my 100m time and it was within 20 seconds of my 1500m time


2013-05-15 9:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?

chris00nj - 2013-05-15 6:21 PM That online calculator is pretty accurate. I put in my 100m time and it was within 20 seconds of my 1500m time

Mine was way off.  I can do a 100m at 1:35 and it shows 18:11 for a 1,000.  I can do a 1,000TT in 16:40.

I hope Suzanne post a link to her calculator.  It would be nice to see how accurate it is.

2013-05-15 10:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
doesn't seem to make sense. I did 1.2 miles in 35 and change. showed me doing 2.4 1:14.  Shows my split being faster than what I did 1.2 before.
2013-05-15 11:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?

spie34 - 2013-05-15 10:03 PM doesn't seem to make sense. I did 1.2 miles in 35 and change. showed me doing 2.4 1:14.  Shows my split being faster than what I did 1.2 before.

2x your 1.2 mile split + 4 minutes doesn't seem too far off...

2013-05-15 11:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
I played around with the calculator a bit and similar to McMillan it seemed to be much more accurate when comparing long distance to long distance.  When I plug in a 1.2 mile swim it's pretty close on my 2.4 mile split.  However, if I plug in my 100y sprint time it says I can do 1.2 miles ridiculously fast.
2013-05-16 2:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
blbriley - 2013-05-15 11:38 PM

chris00nj - 2013-05-15 6:21 PM That online calculator is pretty accurate. I put in my 100m time and it was within 20 seconds of my 1500m time

Mine was way off.  I can do a 100m at 1:35 and it shows 18:11 for a 1,000.  I can do a 1,000TT in 16:40.

I hope Suzanne post a link to her calculator.  It would be nice to see how accurate it is.

Not even close for me either.  My 100 to 1500 conversion was about 2 minutes off.



2013-05-16 4:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
It appears to be well off of my reality based number too.  It puts me at a 16+ minute 1500 yards prediction, well off the 1500 TT I did in the pool last week.  I used a spit from 100 yards I swam during a work out a couple of weeks ago so my numbers would be recent.  Not accurate!
2013-05-16 5:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
The reason some of you are finding that one to be so far off is because fatigue decay rates vary from person to person. By determining that, it's possible to do a much more accurate projection. Knowing your fatigue decay rate also tells you what kind of training will give the most bang for your training buck. Assuming you're training for a longer swim like an oly or longer, if your fatigue decay rate is quicker, you are limited more by endurance, and training should address that. If you have a very low rate, it's more likely you could benefit from more speed focused training.
2013-05-16 7:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
I put in my 100m time and got pretty accurate predictions up to 1500m.  (Spot on for 1500m, 8 seconds slower than my 1000m TT.) Beyond that (2000 and 3000m), I'm considerably faster. Makes sense as endurance is really my strong suit, not speed.
2013-05-18 12:48 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
This is what my calculator is based off of. I have some additional goodies that we are working on as far as reverse predictions, etc.

But plug in 2 times here, you'll get a decay rate and can also play with figures to predict otehr distnaces, and learn if you are sprint leaning or endurance leaning (and thus train the other side to improve times all around)

http://www.arhy.org/swim-predict

2013-05-18 10:28 AM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?

Originally posted by AdventureBear This is what my calculator is based off of. I have some additional goodies that we are working on as far as reverse predictions, etc. But plug in 2 times here, you'll get a decay rate and can also play with figures to predict otehr distnaces, and learn if you are sprint leaning or endurance leaning (and thus train the other side to improve times all around) http://www.arhy.org/swim-predict

Interesting.  The link says 1.06 is a good decay rate for triathletes.  Do you find any variation in the decay rates of people who learn to swim as adults vs those that swam competitively as kids? It predicts my 1500m time to be 1:46 faster (18:14 from a 1:02 100m) than I've done (20:00) and the pace it suggests for the 1500 would take me considerable time and focus in the pool to acheive I think.  



2013-05-18 10:43 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
so 1.06 is really good. Sun Yang is a 1.05 based on various personal best 200, 400 & 800s.

My experience has been that most male adult learners have an index of well over 1.10.

For a sesnse of what t hat means, 1.0 would mean your 100 sprint is equal to your 1000 endurance pace.

I have swimmers with an index of 1.24,w hich means they use sheer muscle for shorter efforts but have no idea how to apply that strength to longer efforts.

So yes I do see it higher. We try to get their index below 1.10 to 1.09 or better. If your's is much higher , you'd benefit from mid distance efforts like 200s, 300s so that you can start to fee where the sternght and power you have can be applied as that anaerobic contribution starts to fade.

What's your index and what iputs did you use?
2013-05-18 12:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
just re-read your inputs and yes, you can do it...focus on the mid distance efforts.

Your decay index is 1.29...that's REALLY high...you swim a fast 100 that's all muscle. There is natural decay as the anearobic contributions fade, but a 20 minute 1500 still has significant anaerobic contribution. I have no doubt you can drop your pace for longer efforts.


Work on mid distance repeats 200-300-400 and do sets at your predicted 1500 pace for example 2 rounds of 4 x 200 @ current 1500 pace and descend to target pace, repeat that one or twice with < 20 seconds rest. 1or 2 min rest in between. When you can consistently do broken sets of mid distance faster than your current best 1500, then retest (or shorten rest or shorten target time...but never lengthen rest to hit the target time as that only reinforces your high decay index). Retest often with 500TT adn 1000TT to get intermediate measures. If your decay is > 1.10 then doing short fast intervals reinforces what you're already good at. Sadly, many triathletes are told that this is what they need to do to get faster. It is if tehir decay is < 1.05 to 1.06 but that describes more women then men due to less upper body strength OR true long distance specialists like marathon swimmers, 10k or in Sun Yang's case, the 1500m world record holder.

Who is the fellow here on the forum with the Canadian 30-34 record for 1500m in his sig line? I wonder what his decay index is?

BTW, these predictions fail for those with poor form who struggle to even complete a short TT of 300 to 500 yards. Well, it is good info, but predicting beyind the tested time is useless for those folks and it's better to work with broken sets of 200 to 400 to help improve form & sustainability (ie 2 rounds of 4 x 50, keeping SPL in a tight range while holding avg pace for a 300 TT)


Edited by AdventureBear 2013-05-18 12:19 PM
2013-05-18 2:10 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
Originally posted by AdventureBear

just re-read your inputs and yes, you can do it...focus on the mid distance efforts.

Your decay index is 1.29...that's REALLY high...you swim a fast 100 that's all muscle. There is natural decay as the anearobic contributions fade, but a 20 minute 1500 still has significant anaerobic contribution. I have no doubt you can drop your pace for longer efforts.


Work on mid distance repeats 200-300-400 and do sets at your predicted 1500 pace for example 2 rounds of 4 x 200 @ current 1500 pace and descend to target pace, repeat that one or twice with < 20 seconds rest. 1or 2 min rest in between. When you can consistently do broken sets of mid distance faster than your current best 1500, then retest (or shorten rest or shorten target time...but never lengthen rest to hit the target time as that only reinforces your high decay index). Retest often with 500TT adn 1000TT to get intermediate measures. If your decay is > 1.10 then doing short fast intervals reinforces what you're already good at. Sadly, many triathletes are told that this is what they need to do to get faster. It is if tehir decay is < 1.05 to 1.06 but that describes more women then men due to less upper body strength OR true long distance specialists like marathon swimmers, 10k or in Sun Yang's case, the 1500m world record holder.

Who is the fellow here on the forum with the Canadian 30-34 record for 1500m in his sig line? I wonder what his decay index is?

BTW, these predictions fail for those with poor form who struggle to even complete a short TT of 300 to 500 yards. Well, it is good info, but predicting beyind the tested time is useless for those folks and it's better to work with broken sets of 200 to 400 to help improve form & sustainability (ie 2 rounds of 4 x 50, keeping SPL in a tight range while holding avg pace for a 300 TT)



You're talking about Bo Simpson. His name here is simpsonbo.

2013-05-18 10:50 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
My decay index (100 to 1000m) is 1.05. Background as kid and teenager in swimming, mostly 500 and 1500 free and some fly. Sun Yang I'm not.....it's just that I lack the strength/speed to do a fast 100m. Working on it. I would probably do well at marathon swimming if the water was warm enough--I have a certain pace (about 1:45 to 1:50/100m) where I can just keep going pretty indefinitely. Have actually done a 10,000m swim few times as a teen but no idea of the time.
2013-05-18 11:55 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?

Originally posted by AdventureBear just re-read your inputs and yes, you can do it...focus on the mid distance efforts. Your decay index is 1.29...that's REALLY high...you swim a fast 100 that's all muscle. There is natural decay as the anearobic contributions fade, but a 20 minute 1500 still has significant anaerobic contribution. I have no doubt you can drop your pace for longer efforts.  

Hmm, are we looking at the same thing?  I see 1.20 beside the 1500 when I enter a 100 time of 1:02 and a 1500 of 20:00 but it says SDI=1.09 at the top.  Maybe I just don't know how to read it.  

I've dropped a minute over the winter by swimming with the local swim team kids in the pool.

Table for 100m (0:01:02) & 1500m (0:20:00)

 

DistancePredicted Time (SDI=1.09)Target Prediction (TFD=1.06)EI
100m0:01:02 (0:01:02)0:01:02 (0:01:02)-0:00:00
200m0:02:12 (0:01:06)0:02:09 (0:01:05)-0:00:03
400m0:04:43 (0:01:11)0:04:30 (0:01:07)-0:00:13
500m0:06:01 (0:01:12)0:05:41 (0:01:08)-0:00:19
800m0:10:03 (0:01:15)0:09:22 (0:01:10)-0:00:41
1000m0:12:50 (0:01:17)0:11:52 (0:01:11)-0:00:58
1500m0:20:00 (0:01:20)0:18:14 (0:01:13)-0:01:46
1900m0:25:54 (0:01:22)0:23:26 (0:01:14)-0:02:29
3800m0:55:18 (0:01:27)0:48:51 (0:01:17)-0:06:27

 



2013-05-20 1:50 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Swimming Equivalent of McMillan Running Calculator?
My mistake...I must have entered 1000 instead of 1500. Your numbers make much more sense. 1.06 to 1.09 is good for a triathlete, but since you're at the higher end, the previous suggestions should still help a bit. Same sets, same targets as far as current and goal paces (use the paces you printed out)
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