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2010-11-19 8:05 AM

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Subject: USAT Rankings

My score is 70.72 which I am certain is a crappy score.

What exactly does it mean?



2010-11-19 8:40 AM
in reply to: #3217963

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Master
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Bedford, MA
Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
It's some random algorithm that USAT uses - take it with a grain of salt.

I'm ranked somewhere around 900 in my AG, but that really means nothing - it's who shows up at the races that really matters. Conditions and courses are all different and it's hard to compare results across the country.
2010-11-19 8:53 AM
in reply to: #3217963

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
pga_mike - 2010-11-19 9:05 AM

My score is 70.72 which I am certain is a crappy score.

What exactly does it mean?



It means you ranked higher than me and thus not last
2010-11-19 11:58 AM
in reply to: #3218063

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
DanielG - 2010-11-19 8:53 AM
pga_mike - 2010-11-19 9:05 AM

My score is 70.72 which I am certain is a crappy score.

What exactly does it mean?

It means you ranked higher than me and thus not last


After reading that, I had to find out who actually was last in my AG.

It is apparently some guy named Ann.
2010-11-19 12:05 PM
in reply to: #3218451

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
Turnin2 - 2010-11-19 12:58 PM

DanielG - 2010-11-19 8:53 AM
pga_mike - 2010-11-19 9:05 AM

My score is 70.72 which I am certain is a crappy score.

What exactly does it mean?

It means you ranked higher than me and thus not last


After reading that, I had to find out who actually was last in my AG.

It is apparently some guy named Ann.


I'm older than 14 of the bottom 15 in mine. Interesting.
2010-11-19 12:30 PM
in reply to: #3217963

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings

Do you know what the colors mean? Orange, blue, peach?



2010-11-19 12:31 PM
in reply to: #3217963

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
As per USAT's web site:

How are USAT rankings calculated?

1) Determine which participants received an overall ranking in the prior year, and therefore received a pacesetter ranking.

The pacesetter rankings are embedded in the rankings system and once a race is loaded, the rankings system automatically pulls all of the pacesetters in the race and uses their times to calculate the par time. Although possible, it can be very difficult to manually calculate the rankings due to the large number of pacesetters in every race.

2) Convert the times into minutes so they can work in a mathematical formula.

3) Multiply each participant’s time in minutes by his or her pacesetter ranking and divide by 100. This tells us how quickly a pacesetter that is ranked at a 100 could have completed the course.

4) Drop the top 20% & bottom 20% of calculated times. This solves the problem of extraordinarily great performances (a pacesetter significantly outperforms their ’07 pacesetter ranking) and extraordinarily poor performances (ex. flat tire or dehydration).

5) Average the remaining times to come up with the “par time.” The “par time” is what all times will be compared to when calculating individual rankings. Competitors are racing against the “par time” as far as scoring is concerned. The par time is mathematically what we believe the fastest amateur athlete in the country would be able to complete the course in.

6) Divide the par time by each participant’s finish time and multiply that by 100 (same calculation as that used to determine the par time). An additional 10% will be added to the female participants’ scores for “gender grading.” This is done to allow women the ability to crack the 100 point score just as men do.

Does racing a different distance affect my ranking?

What we’ve found is that while many multisport athletes may specialize in one distance they occasionally dabble in other distances. The current scoring system allows those individuals to see how they do from a scoring standpoint at each distance while not necessarily hurting their overall ranking.

Remember that only the top two or three scores depending on the multisport discipline are used to calculate a competitor’s overall ranking, so if a race doesn’t go so well it won’t automatically drag your ranking down.

How are rankings tallied?

Rankings are calculated as a comparison between an athlete’s race time and the projected time of the best age grouper in the rankings (known as the “par time”). For example, if the par time of a sprint race is 60 minutes, someone who completed the race in 72 minutes would be 20% slower than the best age grouper, calculated as 1.2 times the par time.

How do I become a ranked athlete?

A minimum of three scores is needed to be ranked in the sport of on-road triathlon. However, only two are needed in the sports of duathlon, off-road triathlon, and aquathlon. Finally, the top five percent of members in each age group receive All-American honors, and the next five percent receive All-American Honorable Mention honors.

** PLEASE NOTE THAT TO BE RANKED YOU MUST BE A CURRENT ANNUAL MEMBER AS OF DECEMBER 31 IN THE YEAR YOU WISH TO BE RANKED.**

2010-11-19 12:41 PM
in reply to: #3218496

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
ewillmore - 2010-11-19 1:30 PM

Do you know what the colors mean? Orange, blue, peach?



It seems the orange/peach means the person hasn't done 3 races, or 3 races that count in any case, for the year.

Blue/white is every other line so that's for you to be able to follow a line across easier.
2010-11-19 3:47 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
I am 49th in NY for my AG
2010-11-19 7:39 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
Noted than BTs own Bryan Dunn is ranked 22nd out of 9638 in the M40-44. I'm a little bit behind him at 3776th at 72.30 but I'm still missing my best race of the year. How come the pros (IE Troy Jacobson)show up and get ranked as AGers.? Last year Chris Lieto, Craig Alexander, and Macca showed up on the list in my AG.
2010-11-20 9:29 AM
in reply to: #3217963

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
Yup the rankings this time of year really don't mean much---you still have races left to race and plenty more that USAT haven't added to the ranking system (they are usually at least a month behind depending upon the RD getting the results in!!!)  and you still have the pros in AG's and then there are those like me in the rankings that only have 1 or 2 race for the year so they get dropped for not having the minimum 3 races for the year in the final rankings.......


2010-11-20 3:31 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
There is a great tri-talk podcast where he explains how the USAT ranking work.
The idea is that they use the ranking to try to be able to compare even if people were at different races. It is interesting math, to say the least.
Plus, with that number and 4.00 you can get a coffee at starbucks. 
2010-11-20 3:40 PM
in reply to: #3219339

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings


Last year it all didn't get officially finalized until March 5, although after maybe mid-January nothing much changed.

In fact, over the past month very little has changed -- there are little flutterings here and there, but no big jumps. As someone stated, by the time all is said and done there will be a lot who are eliminated because they do not have the minimum of three races. When that day comes, there is a huge change -- both in an individual's placement, and whether that individual remains as All-American or Honorable Mention.

Right now I am 46/1224 in M60-64, which puts me in All-American with 15 A-A below me before Honorable Mention starts. However, there are only 13 guys above me with less than three races tabulated, and I am sure at least nine of them will end up with at least three races. As all of my results are in, I'm not likely going to get any higher than about 40th (it will help if some of those above me have a mediocre race as their third, and tumble down below me). As loads of guys below me will be eliminated for only racing once or twice, that 1224 now will be more like 700. And with 700 I would need to be 35th or lower to be A-A, so I don't see that happening. Again, it seems I'm destined for H.M.!

The ranking number doesn't change according to age; all that changes is how it places in the age group. My number of 78.34785 has me at 46th in 60-64, and I think a week or so ago it was 198 in 55-59........and it will continue to place lower in each descending age group; god knows where it would rank in 35-39!

And, yes, it does all depend on who shows up on any given day. If a couple of Regional or Nationals studs put in an appearance, and tear up an oly in 1:50 or so, then that makes it difficult to score much above 75 by going 2:30. But on a day in which the top time might be, say, 2:09, then a 2:30 will come out scoring much higher. It's not nearly as simple as this, but as a rough indicator it's okay.

See that brand-new race in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, or 100 miles WNW of Fargo? THAT'S the one to enter if you want to improve your chances of a higher ranking value for that event!






2010-11-20 9:25 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
I'm 3072 in M35-39... I think with concerted effort I can crack the top the 3000 in 2011.
2010-11-20 10:53 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
jsklarz - 2010-11-20 10:25 PM I'm 3072 in M35-39... I think with concerted effort I can crack the top the 3000 in 2011.


I'm here to help....only raced twice this year so you are already up (or down?!) to 3071 for THIS year!!!
2010-11-20 11:34 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
It's an imperfect system similar to the BCS rankings


2010-11-21 10:55 AM
in reply to: #3219885

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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings


Yes, it's imperfect, but it's also a pretty accurate reflection of where one fits into the national age group universe. In fact, it's almost uncanny as to how I do when I go head-to-head with people in the rankings. That is, in general the ones who place above me in the rankings have beaten me in specific races; the ones below me are guys who I beat in races.

But even that isn't perfect, and even though I haven't beaten Don C. and Paul L. head-to-head, this year I'm ahead of them (barely) in the rankings. And that just opens up the can of worms about variables -- who (especially the top guys and the "pacesetters") shows up at any given race, and how any individual feels going into a race (nagging injury, head cold, etc) or what happens during a race (flat, or a dropped chain).

As for the "barely" part above, small things can make big differences in a ranking if a person has raced just a few times. Get a flat, take seven minutes to fix it..........and your ranking for that race can drop about five whole points. Even tinier things -- a struggle with wetsuit removal, goggles leaking, a walk through an aid station -- can lead to a potential race-score of, say, 75 ending up at 74.67902, and you end up bopping down a few places in the overall rankings when it all gets averaged in.

I find it all intriguing, and it's he main reason why I do virtually all of my racing in the U.S. instead of up here in Ontario. It's just one more competition within the competition of a competition.


2010-11-21 8:47 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
My USAT scores: 70.92786 and 3237th out of 6529. Don't really understand the first number but the second equates to 49.5% of all participants in my AG (30-34).  What really gets me, is I raced in the Clydesdale division this summer and had 4 1st place finishes, a 2nd, and a 5th.  So as a Clyde, I was FOP, but as an AGer, I am at best MOP.  That's frustrating. 
2010-11-21 10:31 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT Rankings
I just think its cool to be able to tell my kids I'm a Nationally Ranked Triathlete!

Edited by southwestmba 2010-11-21 10:31 PM
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