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2010-12-20 10:27 AM

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Subject: Interesting Article on Whole Grains


2010-12-20 2:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
Good article. I eat rice and Ezekial Bread once in a while. Other then that I do not consume much grain on a regular basis.
2010-12-20 2:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
ipull400watts - 2010-12-20 2:39 PM Good article. I eat rice and Ezekial Bread once in a while. Other then that I do not consume much grain on a regular basis.


I'm pretty much down to brown rice and whole oatmeal other than that the occasional sandwich.
2010-12-20 10:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
This article was making me mad the way he was attacking the reader with a one sided argument supported by only general statements.  Luckily I took the time to read some of the comment and saw that the author was getting his handed to him by everyone.  The only good information from that link is from the people leaving comments.  And note that the author is coming for a powerlifting background, much different than any dietary advice a triathlete would ever want to follow.
2010-12-21 7:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
Destroyer - 2010-12-20 10:45 PM This article was making me mad the way he was attacking the reader with a one sided argument supported by only general statements.  Luckily I took the time to read some of the comment and saw that the author was getting his handed to him by everyone.  The only good information from that link is from the people leaving comments.  And note that the author is coming for a powerlifting background, much different than any dietary advice a triathlete would ever want to follow.


Yes the author comes from a powerlifting background, but does that mean that the effect of grains on the body is different for him than for a triathlete?  No.  The point of the article is to get you to start researching the matter on your own.  To get on pubmed or use other resources out there to look at the newest research available.  Also most powerlifters have very in dept knowledge of the way nutrient timing affects their ability to lift heavier weights so the article is directed at a certain demographic.  It's not targeted to Joe Public.  I fail to see where this would make you mad.  What many nutritionista re seeing is many athletes are making progress like never before on ketogenic diets, diets like paleo, etc because it's easier to manipulate your insulin responses, and thus performance response to carbs, if you limit what you take in.
2010-12-21 8:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
Interesting but a decent amount of science to the contrary exist:

http://www.adajournal.org/article/S0002-8223(01)00194-8/abstract

shows significant cancer prevention from a whole grain diet.  

I am currently reading Healthy at 100 by John Robbins and it is by no means proof but decent anecdotes of 4 of the oldest, HEALTHIEST (basically zero instances of chronic illness) cultures on earth.  Comparing the diets of Americans to these cultures show that 11% of our diet comes from grains where 32% of the healthy cultures' diet comes from grain (and almost no wheat, whereas Americans eat almost nothing but wheat of which 98% is from white flour which has been stripped of almost all nutrients).

Whole grains aren't the culprit; meat is.  But I love me some meat! 


2010-12-21 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
notadr34 - 2010-12-21 8:57 AM Interesting but a decent amount of science to the contrary exist:

http://www.adajournal.org/article/S0002-8223(01)00194-8/abstract

shows significant cancer prevention from a whole grain diet.  

I am currently reading Healthy at 100 by John Robbins and it is by no means proof but decent anecdotes of 4 of the oldest, HEALTHIEST (basically zero instances of chronic illness) cultures on earth.  Comparing the diets of Americans to these cultures show that 11% of our diet comes from grains where 32% of the healthy cultures' diet comes from grain (and almost no wheat, whereas Americans eat almost nothing but wheat of which 98% is from white flour which has been stripped of almost all nutrients).

Whole grains aren't the culprit; meat is.  But I love me some meat! 


Link doesn't work for me, but if you want to tie the hormones and additives in meat that is sold these days to health issues I'm right there with you.  My personal opinion is that whole grain > white or processed grain, but that starchy carbs in general should be avoided if at all possible.  Of course the fact I'm fairly carb sensitive probably shapes my views a bit.
2010-12-21 10:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
Interesting topic, but the author's understanding of the subject is a bit lacking.  Not that he's completely wrong, but he makes some pretty bold statements that aren't backed up by much.
2010-12-21 10:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
DerekL - 2010-12-21 10:55 AM Interesting topic, but the author's understanding of the subject is a bit lacking.  Not that he's completely wrong, but he makes some pretty bold statements that aren't backed up by much.


Would agree.  Looks like the author is well credentialed, but it's a fluff piece with no studies cited etc.  I would have been happier with a more detailed article.
2010-12-21 2:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains

Here is a much more detailed article by Cordain on the same issue:

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Cereal%20article.pdf

2010-12-21 2:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
Nipper - 2010-12-21 2:08 PM

Here is a much more detailed article by Cordain on the same issue:

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Cereal%20article.pdf



Thanks


2010-12-21 5:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
Granted I skimmed the article, but it sounded like he was saying stay away from 'cereal grains'. So is he promoting eating other 'grains' such as rice and maybe couscous/quinoa-that type of stuff? I'm assuming that is the kind of grains cited in another poster about the other cultures who have longer lives than us and eat more He didn't give any suggestions on what TO eat. How do you guys who don't do grains get your carbs? I find that if I restrict my carbs/grains, I ended up craving them and overeating on carbs like breads and sugars.
2010-12-22 9:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
I'm not going to lie and say I don't eat ANY grains.  I do.  I try to keep it to whole wheat pasta and brown rice, mostly the latter.  I LOVE sweet potatoes as a carb source.  Mashed, roasted, nuked...  all great.  I know sub sweet potatoes out for regular potatoes in just about every application.
2011-01-12 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
uhcoog - 2010-12-21 11:59 AM Looks like the author is well credentialed, but it's a fluff piece with no studies cited etc.  I would have been happier with a more detailed article.


Agree on the fluff piece heavy on unreferenced assertions, but not so sure I agree with "well credentialed." An undergraduate degree in medical technology with a biology minor does not qualify one to dispense nutritional advice.
2011-01-12 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
alath - 2011-01-12 10:08 AM
uhcoog - 2010-12-21 11:59 AM Looks like the author is well credentialed, but it's a fluff piece with no studies cited etc.  I would have been happier with a more detailed article.


Agree on the fluff piece heavy on unreferenced assertions, but not so sure I agree with "well credentialed." An undergraduate degree in medical technology with a biology minor does not qualify one to dispense nutritional advice.


I'd disagree.  I guess the fitness industry is unlike any other industry in that real world experience is generally held in higher regard than education.  20 years as a powerlifter and an undergrad makes the author very qualified in the eyes of many.
2011-01-12 2:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
uhcoog - 2011-01-12 1:48 PM I'd disagree.  I guess the fitness industry is unlike any other industry in that real world experience is generally held in higher regard than education.  20 years as a powerlifter and an undergrad makes the author very qualified in the eyes of many.



OK, then "well-experienced."

"Credentialled" means something different to me - specifically, that the person has systematically studied a professional body of knowledge and has been recognized as being competent to practice that profession. Experience is well-regarded in most professional fields, too - but in most of them you have to have credentials to enter practice and then gain experience.

You're right, though, in some fields it is possible to have knowledge and competence without credentials.



2011-01-21 12:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting Article on Whole Grains
Caveat - I only read to where he started talking about phytates, by that point I was so sick of his bad science I had to stop.
Okay, since I don't have time to go through the entire article I'm just going to debunk the first paragraph which I quote below for you...
 
"They’re filled with immune aggravating proteins and insulin spiking properties that make you fat, and they have almost no nutritional value, leaving you with a bunch of empty calories. To clarify, I’m talking about all grains (which contain these properties in varying degrees) including wheat, corn, oats, barley, rice, rye, and millet as well as grain like seeds like quinoa, buckwheat, and amaranth."

To begin, let's just take wheat and barley and the "insulin spike."  Everything you eat makes your insulin spike, in fact, it's glucose that is the most important stimulus for insulin resistance, this is totally normal and necessary (and makes sense as the point of insulin is to increase the rate of glucose transport into your striated muscle cells and adipocyes).  Let's talk about the real issue here, insulin resistance, which is bad.  And let's look at some real research. -
Glucose and insulin responses to whole grain breakfasts varying in soluble fiber, beta-glucan: a dose response study in obese women with increased risk for insulin resistance. - Kim H - Eur J Nutr - 01-APR-2009; 48(3): 170-5 

 "A high intake of whole grains containing soluble fiber has been shown to lower glucose and insulin responses in overweight humans and humans with type 2 diabetes....: We investigated the linearity of this response after consumption of 5 breakfastcereal test meals containing wheat and/or barley to provide varying amounts of soluble fiber, beta-glucan (0, 2.5, 5, 7.5 and 10 g)...........Area under the curve for 2 h-postprandial glycemic response was not affected by beta-glucan content. However, peak and area under the curve of insulin responses were significantly affected by the beta-glucan amount in an inverse linear relationship."

A more general definition of cereal grains here also showed the OPPOSITE effect of our original author's claims...

Whole-grain intake and insulin sensitivity: the Insulin Resistance Atherosclerosis Study. - Liese AD - Am J Clin Nutr - 01-NOV-2003; 78(5): 965-71 


"Usual dietary intakes in 978 middle-aged adults with normal (67%) or impaired (33%) glucose tolerance were ascertained by using an interviewer-administered, validated food-frequency questionnaire. Whole-grain intake (servings per day) was derived from dark breads and high-fiber and cooked cereals..... On average, IRAS participants consumed 0.8 servings of whole grains/d. Whole-grain intake was significantly associated with S(I) (beta = 0.082, P = 0.0005) and insulin (beta = -0.0646, P = 0.019) after adjustment for demographics, total energy intake and expenditure, smoking, and family history of diabetes. The addition of body mass index and waist circumference attenuated but did not explain the association with S(I). The addition of fiber and magnesium resulted in a nonsignificant association that is consistent with the hypothesis that these constituents account for some of the effect of whole grains on S(I). CONCLUSION: Higher intakes of whole grains were associated with increases in insulin sensitivity."  (this is a good thing.)  


Now let's look at the "make you fat" assertion by citing a study of more than 2000 women.   

Good C.K., Holschuh N., Albertson A.M., Eldridge A.L.:  Whole grain consumption and body mass index in adult women: An analysis of NHANES 1999-2000 and the USDA pyramid servings database.  J Am Coll Nutr 27. 80-87.2008;

"Women 19 years of age and older (n = 2,092) were classified into groups based on their average whole grain (WG) intake: 0 servings, more than 0 but less than 1 serving, and > or =1 servings per day. Within these classifications, mean BMI, mean waist circumference and percent overweight/obese (BMI > or = 25) were identified as primary dependent variables.....RESULTS: Women consuming at least one serving of WG had a significantly lower mean BMI and waist circumference than women with no WG consumption (p < 0.05). Multiple regression analysis showed a significant inverse relationship between BMI and whole grain intake after adjustment for age, energy intake, dietary fiber and alcohol intake (p = 0.004)."

I'm not even going to begin to cite research backing all the benefits of these grains on cardiovascular health, there's honestly too much of it for me to even browse through quickly.  

Now let's talk about the immune response......

[The biological activity of beta-glucans] - Rondanelli M - Minerva Med - 01-JUN-2009; 100(3): 237-45
"This review summarizes the recent knowledge about the positive effect of betaglucans on human health. Beta-glucans are polysaccharides occurring in the bran of cereal grains (barley and oats and to a much lesser degree in rye and wheat, in amounts of about 7%, 5%, 2% and less than 1%, respectively), the cell wall of baker's yeast, certain types of fungi, and many kinds of mushrooms. The differences between soluble and insoluble beta-glucans are significant in regards to application, mode of action, and overall biological activity. A growing body of science indicates that beta-glucans promote health in a number of important ways. Beta-glucans have been studied for their hypocholesterolemic effects; these mechanisms include: reducing the intestinal absorption of cholesterol and bile acids by binding to glucans; shifting the liver from cholesterol syntheses to bile acid production; and fermentation by intestinal bacteria to short-chain fatty acids, which are absorbed and inhibit hepatic cholesterol syntheses. Several studies have also shown that oat beta-glucans blunt the glycemic and insulin response. Moreover, beta-1,3-glucans improve the body's immune system defense against foreign invaders by enhancing the ability of macrophages, neutrophils and natural killer cells to respond to and fight a wide range of challenges such as bacteria, viruses, fungi, and parasites. Finally, there is renewed interest in the potential usefulness of beta-glucan as a radioprotective drug for chemotherapy, radiation therapy and nuclear emergencies, particularly because glucan can be used not only as a treatment, but also as a prophylactic."


Yamazaki et al.  Innate immunomodulatory effects of cereal grains through induction of IL-10.  Journal of allergy and clinical immunology January 2008:  121:1 

"

Interactions between the gastrointestinal immune system and the luminal environment play critical roles in maintaining immune homeostasis and in diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease. Although immunomodulation by microbial factors has been studied extensively, little attention has been given to the potential immunomodulatory effects of ingested foods....


Thus grain-derived, LPS-like activity might be important in immune homeostasis and disease progression by stimulating monocytes and regulatory T cells.  In conclusion, cereal grain extracts (eg, rice and wheat) induce marked immunomodulation through robust production of IL-10 from CD14+ cells. Investigation of in vivo immunomodulation by cereal grain ingestion is warranted and might provide novel insights into strategies to manipulate IL-10 levels in the gastrointestinal tract and other mucosal organs."

In other words, they "aggravate your immune system" in much the same way your normal intestinal flora does.  Or bioactives in yoghurt.   

The original author obviously has no substantial scientific background.  A minor in biology certainly does not qualify someone to offer nutritional advice, believe me, I hold a minor in biology (molecular) and the depth of study required for a minor does not even begin to delve into the intricacies of human physiology and/or nutrition.  It's frustrating that this sort of misinformation is out there.  

Well, I've ranted enough and it's time to get back to studying so I can actually sleep a little tonight and try recover from the first time in a pool since september...  I'm going to wake up so sore...
   







Edited by neverstopexploring 2011-01-21 12:23 AM
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