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different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question
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| General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question | Rss Feed  |
 2010-12-21 1:56 PM |
Veteran  403  Maryland |  Subject: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie questionI was doing some research about different muscles used for tri vs road bike. |
| 2010-12-21 2:22 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
Master 1996   Woodbridge , Virginia | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question I tend to use my road bike early in the season.. helps strengthen the glutes and to help me get bike fitness back up.. As the season progresses.. I use TT more, becasue thats what i race with.. road bike is used less so beginning of season road bike 75% TT bike 25% Season through year end 85% TT bike and 15% road bike (usually for hills and something different to do). Thats my equation tend to work for me.. TT bike arent built for comfort, made for speed.. hence the short front tube, etc.. and tired quads after a ride or race.. Road Bikes on the other hand, you can get comfy and can also sprint on them.. two different animals thus the two opposing ideas.. Edited by momo 2010-12-21 2:26 PM |
| 2010-12-21 2:30 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question pretty sure you will run the same riding a tt or a road bike. |
| 2010-12-21 2:35 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question I train on both. Not sure of %. Don't care and don't think it matters. I'm handcuffed right now with a cracked TT frame so am on the roadie but when I'm just plugging away on the trainer in the winter it doesn't matter. I'll use spin bikes too. When it gets warmer and I get closer to racing I'll be predominantly riding TT on outside rides. I've never had a problem sitting in aero for my entire ride so don't really run into those issues about conditioning myself for the position but just to make sure I ride the TT consistently. I wouldn't get too caught up in the different muscles argument. To me fast is fast and power is power regardless of the bike. To me it's 100% aerodynamic benefit and nothing to do with running unless you want to split hairs over physiology. If I do my transition run from TT, road, spin bike.... It all feels the same to me. If you need to get used to a position then obviously it would matter more. |
| 2010-12-21 2:41 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
| Master 1728 portland, or | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question This comment is accurate: "... allows the rider to maintain a larger hip angle while in the aero position" Everything else is BS. scott |
| 2010-12-21 3:31 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
Expert 1322 Savannah | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question Don't believe the hype. You use the same muscle groups on both bikes. The tri bike doesn't help you "save your legs" for the run by using different muscles. The geometry of a tri bike just allows you a better/more comfortable aero position. |
| 2010-12-21 4:48 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question That's mostly BS. The difference between a tri bike and road bike from a triathlon standpoint is that the tri bike puts you in a more aerodynamic position. This only saves your legs relative to a road bike if you race at the same speed on both bikes. The decreased air resistance on a tri bike at a given speed means that you expend less energy. This saves your legs for the run. If you ride both at the same effort level, you will ride the tri bike faster than the road bike, and have an equal amount of fuel left in the tank for the run. Another way to say it is that tri bikes are used because their aerodynamic advantages over a road bike result in faster triathlon times. It has nothing to do with different muscles used. The differences in muscle utilization are negligible. |
| 2010-12-21 5:46 PM in reply to: #3256785 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question TriMyBest - 2010-12-21 6:48 PM If you ride both at the same effort level, you will ride the tri bike faster than the road bike, and have an equal amount of fuel left in the tank for the run. A minor point, but if you ride both at the same effort level, you would expect to run slightly better off the tribike because you would have been on the bike for less time. Shane |
| 2010-12-21 6:41 PM in reply to: #3256850 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question the hip angle should be pretty much the same for both the road and tri bike,, The big difference is that on the tri bike you are in a more aero position, Less energy lost fighting wind resistance. So for the same effort or watts you should be faster on the tri bike. |
| 2010-12-21 6:48 PM in reply to: #3256850 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question gsmacleod - 2010-12-21 6:46 PM TriMyBest - 2010-12-21 6:48 PM If you ride both at the same effort level, you will ride the tri bike faster than the road bike, and have an equal amount of fuel left in the tank for the run. A minor point, but if you ride both at the same effort level, you would expect to run slightly better off the tribike because you would have been on the bike for less time. Shane Good point! That's kind of like if you get a flat tire, and it takes you 5 minutes to fix it, you didn't lose 5 minutes, you lost less because you got to rest for 5 minutes and were able to ride the remainder of the course faster than if you hadn't gotten the flat. Edited by TriMyBest 2010-12-21 6:58 PM |
| 2010-12-21 9:24 PM in reply to: #3256785 |
Expert 1159 Charlotte, NC | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question TriMyBest - 2010-12-21 5:48 PM It has nothing to do with different muscles used. The differences in muscle utilization are negligible. That may be true, but I definitely feel a difference when I ride my tri-bike after I've been riding the roadie for a while. It may be a small or subtle difference, but there is a difference... at least on my bikes and the way they're fitted. |
| 2010-12-22 5:54 AM in reply to: #3256521 |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question Tri bike allows you to get into a more aerodynamic position while still maintaining bike balance. Different muscles? Not enough that it will actually make a difference, i.e. minute if any. |
| 2010-12-22 8:07 AM in reply to: #3256521 |
| Member 212 Bedford, NH, USA | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question Published studies show that when cyclists, who predominantly ride either road or aero, are tested on road and aero bikes, each generates more power on the bike they usually train on. Not surprising, as adaptation is the key. So you can spend your watts on a road bike overcoming air drag or in aero going faster, but unless you train mostly in aero, the benefit will be reduced, as you will produce less wattage on the bike you train on less. |
| 2010-12-22 10:33 AM in reply to: #3256910 |
New user 151 | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question TriMyBest - 2010-12-21 6:48 PM That's kind of like if you get a flat tire, and it takes you 5 minutes to fix it, you didn't lose 5 minutes, you lost less because you got to rest for 5 minutes and were able to ride the remainder of the course faster than if you hadn't gotten the flat. Unless when you have to change that flat your heart rate goes through the roof because you are so nervous!  |
| 2010-12-22 11:55 AM in reply to: #3257497 |
Master 2491 | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question aneal000 - 2010-12-22 11:33 AM TriMyBest - 2010-12-21 6:48 PM That's kind of like if you get a flat tire, and it takes you 5 minutes to fix it, you didn't lose 5 minutes, you lost less because you got to rest for 5 minutes and were able to ride the remainder of the course faster than if you hadn't gotten the flat. Unless when you have to change that flat your heart rate goes through the roof because you are so nervous! ...and how much blood the mosquitoes sucked out of your body while changing the flat, thus reducing your ability to transport and absorb oxygen. |
| 2010-12-22 3:48 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
| Member 212 Bedford, NH, USA | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question Influence of different racing positions on mechanical and electromyographic patterns during pedalling The aim of this study was to test the hypothesis that, in comparison with standard postures, aero posture (AP) would modify the coordination of lower limb muscles during pedalling and consequently would influence the pedal force production. Twelve triathletes were asked to pedal at an intensity near the ventilatory threshold (VT1D20%) and at an intenisty corresponding to the respiratory compensation point (RCP). For each intensity, subjects were tested under three positions: (1) upright posture (UP), (2) dropped posture (DP), and (3) AP. Gas exchanges, surface electromyography and pedal effective force were continuously recorded. No significant difference was found for the gas exchange variables among the three positions. Data illustrate a significant increase [gluteus maximus (GMax), vastus medialis (VM)] and decrease [rectus femoris (RF)] in electromyography (EMG) activity level in AP compared with UP at RCP. A significant shift forward of the EMG patterns (i.e. later onset of activation) was observed for RF (at VT1D20% and RCP), GMax, VL, and VM (at RCP) in AP compared with UP. These EMG changes are closely related to alteration of force profile in AP (higher downstroke positive peak force, lower upstroke negative peak force, and later occurrence of these peaks along the crank cycle). |
| 2010-12-22 4:45 PM in reply to: #3258119 |
| Master 1728 portland, or | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question MaverickNH - 2010-12-22 12:48 PM Influence of different racing positions on mechanical and electromyographic patterns during pedalling The aim of this study was to test the hypothesis that, in comparison with standard postures, aero posture (AP) would modify the coordination of lower limb muscles during pedalling and consequently would influence the pedal force production. Twelve triathletes were asked to pedal at an intensity near the ventilatory threshold (VT1D20%) and at an intenisty corresponding to the respiratory compensation point (RCP). For each intensity, subjects were tested under three positions: (1) upright posture (UP), (2) dropped posture (DP), and (3) AP. Gas exchanges, surface electromyography and pedal effective force were continuously recorded. No significant difference was found for the gas exchange variables among the three positions. Data illustrate a significant increase [gluteus maximus (GMax), vastus medialis (VM)] and decrease [rectus femoris (RF)] in electromyography (EMG) activity level in AP compared with UP at RCP. A significant shift forward of the EMG patterns (i.e. later onset of activation) was observed for RF (at VT1D20% and RCP), GMax, VL, and VM (at RCP) in AP compared with UP. These EMG changes are closely related to alteration of force profile in AP (higher downstroke positive peak force, lower upstroke negative peak force, and later occurrence of these peaks along the crank cycle). Had the test subjects not been forced to ride in an aero position with such an acute hip angle these factors: "These EMG changes are closely related to alteration of force profile in AP (higher downstroke positive peak force, lower upstroke negative peak force, and later occurrence of these peaks along the crank cycle)." Would have likely been eliminated, or at least minimized. Which takes us back to the benefit of a tri/tt bike vs. a road bike. Keep the hip angle open while maximizing aero positioning. scott |
| 2010-12-22 8:54 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question You are not crazy, I too have come accross those contradicting statements on a regular basis. To me, the Tri bike uses more quads than the road bike. Some say the tri bike "saves the hamstrings for the run". Edited by rc63413 2010-12-22 9:04 PM |
| 2010-12-23 10:38 AM in reply to: #3256521 |
Veteran 263 | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question Great thread, it would be good to see the origins of these ideas traced, I have also been very confused by the claims about different muscle recruitment. |
| 2010-12-23 10:50 AM in reply to: #3256521 |
Master 1929 Midlothian, VA | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question There is absolutely a difference in muscles used. Not ALL but SOME. Most are probably the same, but the different positions require different levels of work from the muscles involved. Mostly overlap, but some change in which muscles are working or how much. When I bought my Tri bike I noticed I was faster and that my legs were more sore than usual. Took several rides to 'get used' to it. Wasn't enough to really slow me down, and it wasn't painful per se, but more than noticeable. For someone that switches between 2 or more bikes frequently I doubt they'd notice. If you use them both regularly I imagine ALL the involved muscles would get enough use to not feel the difference. -eric |
| 2010-12-23 3:55 PM in reply to: #3258119 |
Elite 3140 | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question MaverickNH - 2010-12-22 4:48 PM Influence of different racing positions on mechanical and electromyographic patterns during pedalling The aim of this study was to test the hypothesis that, in comparison with standard postures, aero posture (AP) would modify the coordination of lower limb muscles during pedalling and consequently would influence the pedal force production. Twelve triathletes were asked to pedal at an intensity near the ventilatory threshold (VT1D20%) and at an intenisty corresponding to the respiratory compensation point (RCP). For each intensity, subjects were tested under three positions: (1) upright posture (UP), (2) dropped posture (DP), and (3) AP. Gas exchanges, surface electromyography and pedal effective force were continuously recorded. No significant difference was found for the gas exchange variables among the three positions. Data illustrate a significant increase [gluteus maximus (GMax), vastus medialis (VM)] and decrease [rectus femoris (RF)] in electromyography (EMG) activity level in AP compared with UP at RCP. A significant shift forward of the EMG patterns (i.e. later onset of activation) was observed for RF (at VT1D20% and RCP), GMax, VL, and VM (at RCP) in AP compared with UP. These EMG changes are closely related to alteration of force profile in AP (higher downstroke positive peak force, lower upstroke negative peak force, and later occurrence of these peaks along the crank cycle). x2 there is absolute diference in emg studies comparing upright to aero position....I do not want to clog this board with endless research...biomechanically you still use the quads in both positions but to a slightly lesser degree on tri bike and the glutes and hamstring activity increases due to this biomechanical change. you may not notice the difference as much comparing a road to tri bike, but try riding a hybrid compared to a tri bike with the same gear set |
| 2010-12-23 7:12 PM in reply to: #3259690 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question FELTGood - 2010-12-23 5:55 PM x2 there is absolute diference in emg studies comparing upright to aero position.... There are studies out there, but all of the ones that I am familiar with have lots of noise which calls into question the conclusions. Shane |
| 2010-12-23 7:32 PM in reply to: #3259880 |
| Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question I know where the pain is for me when on the tri bike and where it is not. The forward position definitely takes a greater toll on my quads and I do not enguage my hamstrings to the same extent as I do when on my road bike. |
| 2010-12-23 9:14 PM in reply to: #3256521 |
Expert 945 Auburn AL | Subject: RE: different muscles used on tri vs. road bike: newbie question I just got a tri bike, and after riding a road bike only for years, I feel the tri bike offers aero advantages, but really can't feel much difference in muscle usage. I feel as if I am almost in the same position as my road bike, only rotated more forward. That being said, I do feel my neck having to get used to the position. I think the BIGGEST difference would be riding a tri bike vs. riding a road bike with aero bars. Bars on the road bike really decreased my hip angle and really caused all kinds of comfort problems, because I was basically in a shallow seat angle and bent over to get aero... the tri bike and the steep seat angle takes care of that for you. |
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