General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please??? Rss Feed  
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2011-01-13 7:59 PM

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Subject: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
Hey everyone, 
     For the past few months I have been doing base training (zone 2 85-91% Lactate Threshold) and I plan to continue doing this training until about March or April.  This is the first time I have ever trained with a heart rate monitor.  I used to just go out and run, bike, etc.  I have been very strict on myself and have really had to hold back a lot.  I am REALLY hoping that all of this "base" training will pay off come summer so I can work on more intense training for the tris I have planned. 
     The problem is, I am getting bored a lot of the time and don't feel as though I am improving that much and sometimes I worry that all of this training will not pay off.  So I just wanted to hear from all of you out there who have been doing base training in the off-season and how it has worked for you. 
     What is your success story?  For example, anyone go from an aerobic 9min/mile run down to a 7min/mile aerobic run?  Anything like that would really help encourage me during this time, thanks!  I can't wait till it gets warm out again!


2011-01-13 8:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
Base training does not mean that you have to go one speed all the time.  That zone is probably a good one to do a lot of your work (depends how it was determined).  But there is nothing wrong with some variety--how much depends on lots of individual factors.
2011-01-13 8:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
No reason to stay in just zone 2 during off season. Are you following a plan? If so what is it? Sounds a bit like Friel. How did you set your HR zones?

Off season do general preparation and as you move closer to your race do specific race preparation.

I've done 6 off seasons and never have done just zone 2 work.
2011-01-13 10:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
I agree. Base training doesn't have to be boring...
2011-01-14 1:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
unless you are in a period where you need to limit the training, one of the main advantages of lower level training (ie zn2), is that it allows you to do MORE of it. In other words you trade intensity for volume. if you are not doing much, and slowing it down, you're not going to get much done, and no you wont see improvements.


If you are getting bored/not improving, either up the volume, or add some faster stuff in there.



Lastly, base training does not mean long slow. It means you are working on overall fitness vs race specific prep. Think of it like the base of a pyramid. The base is the bottom (duh), the tip of it is your race.

As you move up closer to the race, the training starts to focus on that race more and more, and you move from general to race specific.
2011-01-14 5:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
   I guess I have just been going by something that I heard: You can either work on improving your endurance (ie. faster speed at same low HR), or your speed (ie. Increasing your body's ability to handle lactate and maintain high HRs for longer periods of time).  I heard that it is hard to do both at the same time. 
   But thanks a lot guys, now I will worry less and maybe I will start sprinting at the ends of my runs like I used to, maybe I will push myself on the bike when I get to a hill instead of going slow to keep my HR down.  Thanks!


2011-01-14 5:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???

I have only been run training in Z1 & Z2 since October. But...have greatly increased my volume. The results have been very good....increased speed, increased endurance, weight loss and injury free. I haven't been higher than Z2 in over 3 months.
Take a look at my logs to get a better idea.



Edited by SCamp07 2011-01-14 5:42 AM
2011-01-14 8:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
I'm in a similar boat. I started weight training at the end of September 2010 just to get my cholesterol down and lose a little weight i packed on while being unemployed and lazy. The week i got a new job, I hired a trainer. I worked with her 3 days a week and did cardio 5 days a week under her guidance and with the intentions of doing a half marathon by March.

Fast forward to now...

I've cleaned up my nutrition. Cholesterol dropped 76 points. Lost 19lbs (159 from 178). Body fat has dropped 6%.

Over a month ago I ran my first race (10K). My goal was 1hr 10min. I finished in 1hr 11min. I was totally satisfied but I was very disappointed with my effort. It was a run/walk-a-thon for me. During the past couple months of training, I was very injury prone. After this race, I had had enough of training hard and getting hurt (even with my trainer constantly telling me to slow down). From then on, I finally slowed things down, paid more attention to my heart rate and focused on running form and distance.

My first run with these intentions was a 10k distance. I paced 14:30/mile BUT i was able to do it non stop and felt great afterwards. Most importantly, I didn't hurt myself! Two weeks later, I did the same run, averaged the same HR and increased my pace to 12:00/mile. Last weekend I ran a 5mi run over trail/beach and paced 10:14/mile! I was expecting to hold my 12min pace but I felt so good I knew i could push it.

My base training per week has been a 6mi run on the weekends, 20min of speed intervals on wendesdays, and some elliptical the 3 days i weight train. That gives me a full day to rest and multiple active recovery days during the week. I'm slowly increasing my long run distance on the weekends in preparation for that half marathon in 8 weeks.


2011-01-14 8:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
Kermat89 - 2011-01-13 7:59 PM Hey everyone, 
     For the past few months I have been doing base training (zone 2 85-91% Lactate Threshold) and I plan to continue doing this training until about March or April.  This is the first time I have ever trained with a heart rate monitor.  I used to just go out and run, bike, etc.  I have been very strict on myself and have really had to hold back a lot.  I am REALLY hoping that all of this "base" training will pay off come summer so I can work on more intense training for the tris I have planned. 
     The problem is, I am getting bored a lot of the time and don't feel as though I am improving that much and sometimes I worry that all of this training will not pay off.  So I just wanted to hear from all of you out there who have been doing base training in the off-season and how it has worked for you. 
     What is your success story?  For example, anyone go from an aerobic 9min/mile run down to a 7min/mile aerobic run?  Anything like that would really help encourage me during this time, thanks!  I can't wait till it gets warm out again!


I made a post on another thread related to 'base' training: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
2011-01-14 8:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
That was a great article in the link.  Being a beginner I was very confused with this whole "base training" thing and trying to keep HR below a certain level.  Now I have a much better understanding, thanks.
2011-01-14 9:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
Kermat89 - 2011-01-13 6:59 PM Hey everyone, 
     I am getting bored a lot of the time and don't feel as though I am improving that much


Why do you feel that way? The goal is not to be able to run faster times in training, it's to race faster. Have you done any races indicating you're not improving?

Additionally, when you slowed down your pace, did you add volume? If all you did was slow down, but didn't change any other factors you may not have the results you're seeking. Steadily building volume over a period of time helps the body make adaptations. Building volume causes stress and it's this stress that is needed. Often the stress of adding volume through a steady increase of easy running, is much easier than the stress of relatively short but intense running. It tends to be a longer process, but the risks tend to be less as well, and the results may last longer.

The thing to take away from this is to give it time. Solid results can often take many months to several years of consistent training.


2011-01-14 11:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
   All of these posts have now made me question my training approach... I am currently swimming 6-7 Kilometers/week, biking about 3 hours/week, running about 2hours/week, and strength training 1-2 days per week.  I plan to increase volume 10%/week until I am going twice the race distance (I plan on doing all olympic distances).  Do you experienced athletes think that my volume is enough to justify staying in zone 2, or with this current amount of training, should I add in some tempo and interval workouts now instead of closer to the races I plan on doing in the summer?  Any thoughts?

   BTW, I have thought of "base training" as reffering to improving your ability to move faster while still maintaining a low (aerobic) Heart Rate.  The low intensities with increased volume should also allow my ligaments, muscles, vasculature etc to be ready to handle more strenuous training later on in the season (ie. within a few months of my first race).
2011-01-14 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
Kermat89 - 2011-01-14 11:31 AM    All of these posts have now made me question my training approach... I am currently swimming 6-7 Kilometers/week, biking about 3 hours/week, running about 2hours/week, and strength training 1-2 days per week.  I plan to increase volume 10%/week until I am going twice the race distance (I plan on doing all olympic distances).  Do you experienced athletes think that my volume is enough to justify staying in zone 2, or with this current amount of training, should I add in some tempo and interval workouts now instead of closer to the races I plan on doing in the summer?  Any thoughts?

   BTW, I have thought of "base training" as reffering to improving your ability to move faster while still maintaining a low (aerobic) Heart Rate.  The low intensities with increased volume should also allow my ligaments, muscles, vasculature etc to be ready to handle more strenuous training later on in the season (ie. within a few months of my first race).


Sounds solid to me. Add volume until you stop improving (which usually means you run out of available hours to train) then add intensity. If you add intensity too soon, your are selling yourself short on your aerobic base and potentially setting yourself up for injury.
2011-01-14 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
I completed my first HIM last April and I would say my run is my weakness and I dealt with minor injuries throughout training. These injuries were caused by going too fast too far too early. After the race (May) I committed to building my run base. My base training consisted primary of running 6 miles 3 times a week at 9 min pace. In September I began to add a few intervals ranging any were from as low as 70% up to about 84%. Most of the running was "slow" and steady, and I just concentrated on staying aerobic, and building my base.

During training I keep reminding myself this is how the IM run is going to feel, slow, boring, and aerobic with a bit more pain. I look at these boring runs as mental training as much as physical training.

Another thing I did was run just based on RPE and how I felt and I wouldn't check my watch until the run was done. It is actually amazing how, once you start to listen your body, you can learn alot, and my running became very consistant. With in 15 seconds per mile over 6 miles.

My aerobic run pace is now between 7:40 and 7:55 per mile and these results have been in training runs between 7.32 and 13.75 miles.

This is what worked for me, your results may vary, but I have been injury free and I'm seeing gains. Until I plateau I plan on continuing on the same course. Stay aerobic, mix in a SMALL amount of anerobic work, and add volume.

Best of luck with your training.

Edited by Houstonrider 2011-01-14 12:05 PM
2011-01-14 12:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
Kermat89 - 2011-01-14 11:31 AM    All of these posts have now made me question my training approach... I am currently swimming 6-7 Kilometers/week, biking about 3 hours/week, running about 2hours/week, and strength training 1-2 days per week.  I plan to increase volume 10%/week until I am going twice the race distance (I plan on doing all olympic distances).  Do you experienced athletes think that my volume is enough to justify staying in zone 2, or with this current amount of training, should I add in some tempo and interval workouts now instead of closer to the races I plan on doing in the summer?  Any thoughts?

   BTW, I have thought of "base training" as reffering to improving your ability to move faster while still maintaining a low (aerobic) Heart Rate.  The low intensities with increased volume should also allow my ligaments, muscles, vasculature etc to be ready to handle more strenuous training later on in the season (ie. within a few months of my first race).


IMO if you limit training load specifically limiting your intensity you'll be wasting your training time to some degree. You will certainly experience fitness gains but not as much as you could if you don't limit your intensity. There is no reason to do so as long as you train within your own limitations, IOW, doing too much too soon whether it is volume, intensity or both.

Based on the stress/adaptation principle; your body will improve its metabolic fitness, aerobic system "efficiency", musculoskeletal system resilience, etc. with an adequate trainnig load. Just because you do more volume/less intensity you won't diminish your injury chances same as if you do less volume/more intensity. You will end up injured if you do more of what your body can handle.

There are other reasons to manage your load and favor volume or intensity based on your goals, current fitness, main event, etc. but to imply you might hinder your training adaptations if you don;t do 'base' training aka more volume low intensity (i.e. zone 2 training) is misleading at best.

Sure, if you build to train double your baseline (i.e. 20+ hrs) it would be wise to monitor your intensity, but at 8-10 hrs per week, IMO you could be wasting a chance to grow fitter/faster. There are different ways to approach your training and many ways to improve. I think is healthy to be somehow skeptical regarding some of the popular information often communicated on different venues. Some of it is opinions presented as facts and based more on tradition, popular beliefs and/or anecdote as opposed to evidence. That's not to say it is not effective, but certainly is not the right or only way.
2011-01-14 12:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
One thing I don't get is how interval work leading up to a race is "race-specific training."

I don't plan to do any intervals on mile 3, 5 or 10 of my HIM run. Why don't you just continue to run farther during training until you reach your race distance and then begin to add speed once or twice a week to improve your time?

I'm not trying to get out of interval work.....I actually think it makes running less boring, I'm just wondering why people call it "race-specific."


2011-01-14 12:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
DV 1 - 2011-01-14 1:51 PM 

I'm just wondering why people call it "race-specific."


Depending on your race, it may not be (probably isn't for most people prepping for a HIM).  But many people think that way because they've been led to believe that's how periodization works (ie, same reason they sometimes think "base" = slow).
2011-01-14 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
DV 1 - 2011-01-14 12:51 PM One thing I don't get is how interval work leading up to a race is "race-specific training."

I don't plan to do any intervals on mile 3, 5 or 10 of my HIM run. Why don't you just continue to run farther during training until you reach your race distance and then begin to add speed once or twice a week to improve your time?

I'm not trying to get out of interval work.....I actually think it makes running less boring, I'm just wondering why people call it "race-specific."


Those that do probably do so out of misunderstanding/confusion.

1st, interval training is nothing more than dividing a training sessions in intervals including sets at lower intensities for recovery. Hence you can do interval training at any intensity. i.e. do a 3 hr ride as 25 min @ 85% of your maximum lactate steady state (MLSS) and 5 min @ 60% of MLSS as recovery.

2nd, the reason why interval training is useful, it is because it allows you to cope both mentally and physically with a particular session geared to maximize certain training adaptations, usually higher levels of exertion (i.e. increase your MLSS or VO2max) i.e. you could run a 10K all out or run 6x1 mile repeats at 10k pace with 2 min rest in between. While both sessions will help improve your MLSS, the latter session will most likely allow you to recover faster.

3rd, most of the confusions in this types of threads stems from what people consider speed or high intensity and/or how they define training zones. It is not the same to do a ride at 80% of your VO2max, of your MLSS or your Lactate Threshold. All 3 will produce different levels of exertion. Other used coined terms like AeT or Anaerobic Threshold which only adds to the confusion. *I* use MLSS (or a variation based on power/pace) to define most of my athletes training levels, track improvements and predict performance.

4th, race specific training is nothing more but train at the load (volume + intensity) that specifically address your main event characteristics. IOW, what's race specific for someone training for an IM will be different from someone training for an Olympic distance. The addition of high intensity intervals and presented as 'race specific' was nothing but the misinterpretation of some and it became accepted as standard practice by others, particualr during the taper prior a main event (sort of like mistakenly believe that periodization = 3 weeks build/ 1 week off).

Your plan to build up until you can run 13.1 miles and the try running a bit faster can be a good approach. Also, you could build to run 10 miles at a "comfortable" level of exertion and on other days do some intervals workouts at a much intense level of exertion. Both can yield great results! Which one would be best? that depends for each athlete and the 1 million question...


Edited by JorgeM 2011-01-14 1:19 PM
2011-01-14 3:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
DV 1 - 2011-01-14 11:51 AM

One thing I don't get is how interval work leading up to a race is "race-specific training."

I don't plan to do any intervals on mile 3, 5 or 10 of my HIM run. Why don't you just continue to run farther during training until you reach your race distance and then begin to add speed once or twice a week to improve your time?

I'm not trying to get out of interval work.....I actually think it makes running less boring, I'm just wondering why people call it "race-specific."


For you, it may make sense to do shorter more untense wirk now, building uo your power over shorter time periods. Closer to your race, do longer stuff at race intensity. Its exactly how i train my long course triathketes and 24 hr mountain bikers.
2011-01-14 3:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Encouragement for BASE TRAINING please???
AdventureBear - 2011-01-14 3:15 PM
DV 1 - 2011-01-14 11:51 AM One thing I don't get is how interval work leading up to a race is "race-specific training."

I don't plan to do any intervals on mile 3, 5 or 10 of my HIM run. Why don't you just continue to run farther during training until you reach your race distance and then begin to add speed once or twice a week to improve your time?

I'm not trying to get out of interval work.....I actually think it makes running less boring, I'm just wondering why people call it "race-specific."
For you, it may make sense to do shorter more untense wirk now, building uo your power over shorter time periods. Closer to your race, do longer stuff at race intensity. Its exactly how i train my long course triathketes and 24 hr mountain bikers.


I LOF reading most of your stuff, but, WTH happened with your keyboard today??
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