HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs.....
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2011-01-31 6:34 PM |
Subject: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... I am looking to change things up a bit. I tend to get injured on the long run that turns out to be 50% of my weekly mileage. Last week, was a 9, a 5, a 4.5 and a 2, for 20.5 or so. |
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2011-01-31 8:31 PM in reply to: #3331870 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... ChrisM - 2011-01-31 6:34 PM I am looking to change things up a bit. I tend to get injured on the long run that turns out to be 50% of my weekly mileage. Last week, was a 9, a 5, a 4.5 and a 2, for 20.5 or so. In general it might be safer to do more frequent, shorter runs as the sum for all runs amounts for the same training load, but it is spread around. This allows for your body to cope better with it and recover faster. (as long as you run withing your limits) Also, the main reason we end up battling chronic injuries beyond doing too much too soon is that our musculoskelatal system adapt much slower of what our cardiovascular and metabolic system does. IOW, while can certainly run faster/longer from a cardio/metabolic stand point, our muscles, tendons, joints, etc have not yet adapted to managed that strain. So by doing the same work (volume) but spread in more sessions (frequency) at a lower duration, then, the strain will be enough that your body will adapt, but not so long reducing the extra wear a tear that stand alone longer runs might place. With Cali 70.3 in 9 weeks you could also alternate a bit, do more frequent/shorter runs adding to the same volume one week and the next drop one run altogether (or make it much shorter/easier) and make one of the session longer. That way having 9 weeks you can do 4 long runs building to ~13 miles (starting from 9 miles) by adding 1 mile every other week to your long run. The weeks in between you have shorter runs but still keeping the same volume (+/-) letting more time for your legs to adapt. (I hope that make sense). There are many ways you could that, the above is just one of them! |
2011-02-01 12:07 AM in reply to: #3331870 |
Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... Jorge, I was thinking about this today as I limped into the shower after doing the 6 x 4' power set, and as I was cursing your name I was also thinking you're the MVP of BT. That's a great idea to alternate, it will keep things fresh I think. I always think about just getting longer and longer in the schedule as the race gets closer, but this is an interesting idea. Time to go re-jigger the schedule |
2011-02-01 10:19 AM in reply to: #3331870 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... I am glad that gave you some ideas! |
2011-02-01 11:48 AM in reply to: #3332092 |
Veteran 185 San Diego, Discovered by the Germans in 1904 | Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... JorgeM - 2011-01-31 6:31 PM ChrisM - 2011-01-31 6:34 PM I am looking to change things up a bit. I tend to get injured on the long run that turns out to be 50% of my weekly mileage. Last week, was a 9, a 5, a 4.5 and a 2, for 20.5 or so. In general it might be safer to do more frequent, shorter runs as the sum for all runs amounts for the same training load, but it is spread around. This allows for your body to cope better with it and recover faster. (as long as you run withing your limits) Also, the main reason we end up battling chronic injuries beyond doing too much too soon is that our musculoskelatal system adapt much slower of what our cardiovascular and metabolic system does. IOW, while can certainly run faster/longer from a cardio/metabolic stand point, our muscles, tendons, joints, etc have not yet adapted to managed that strain. So by doing the same work (volume) but spread in more sessions (frequency) at a lower duration, then, the strain will be enough that your body will adapt, but not so long reducing the extra wear a tear that stand alone longer runs might place. With Cali 70.3 in 9 weeks you could also alternate a bit, do more frequent/shorter runs adding to the same volume one week and the next drop one run altogether (or make it much shorter/easier) and make one of the session longer. That way having 9 weeks you can do 4 long runs building to ~13 miles (starting from 9 miles) by adding 1 mile every other week to your long run. The weeks in between you have shorter runs but still keeping the same volume (+/-) letting more time for your legs to adapt. (I hope that make sense). There are many ways you could that, the above is just one of them! ChrisM - Thanks for asking that question! I was on a plan where 50 - 60 % of my volume was in the long weekend run. Of course I was wrecked after the runs and it took me a while to recover which would sometimes impact other parts of my plan. I decided to increase my run volume during the week and shorten my long runs. I am getting in more volume, feel much better and it doesn't affect the rest of my training. Based on the plan I laid out, my long run before Cali HIM will be 12 miles, my max weekly volume will be 36 miles (5, 8, 6, 5, 12). I'm hoping my homegrown plan will work....it's feeling great so far. Jorge - Thanks for kind of validating what I have been doing!! Great to know it's not a bad idea. |
2011-02-01 6:43 PM in reply to: #3332092 |
Member 41 , North Island | Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... Hi Jorge . . . also want to thank you for the thoughtful, scientific reply. It makes sense. Since running is probably the weakest of the three disciplines for me, and I haven't done a lot of running in my life, I need to be especially careful with doing too much longer distances to reduce the risk of injury. I went from no triathlete to HIM distances in less than a year, and my knees have taken a lot of strain. I can still run and bike without having to be a masochist, but I am always aware of my knees. I have been forced to rest lately (flu season), and I think it has been good for the joints. Thank you for listening to me ramble . . . |
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2011-02-08 10:42 AM in reply to: #3331870 |
Master 1795 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... Seperate question, but how many of your weekly runs are bike/run bricks? for example, if I run 4x a week, I will have a long ride followed by 4 mile run. Then I will do one other brick that week of about 6-7 mile run after the bike. Other 2 runs are track work and long run. Long post, but curious how bricks affect the op's question. Thanks for any feedback. |
2011-02-08 11:26 AM in reply to: #3331870 |
Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... Having put the above plan into place, I am running off the bike once a week. Running 6 days a week and training for an HIM means I am putting in a lot more 2X a days than I have before. Short runs are 2-3. Medium runs are 4-5. Long run to date is 9 Schedule right now is Mon - Off or PM Trainer ride Tues - AM medium run, PM swim Wed - AM short run, PM trainer Thurs - AM medium run, PM swim Fri - AM short run, PM off or trainer, depending on Monday Sat - AM long ride, short run brick Sun - AM long run, medium swim I am not much of a believer in long bricks, I know some are. The longest I am planning to run off the bike is 3 miles. The only other day I'd brick would be Wed if I slept in, but I don't like riding 1:15 and then running 2 miles at night, ending at 8:30 or so. |
2011-02-08 12:12 PM in reply to: #3331870 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... It's early, but how do you feel so far? |
2011-02-08 6:21 PM in reply to: #3345067 |
Master 3127 Sunny Southern Cal | Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... Schedule right now is Mon - Off or PM Trainer ride Tues - AM medium run, PM swim Wed - AM short run, PM trainer Thurs - AM medium run, PM swim Fri - AM short run, PM off or trainer, depending on Monday Sat - AM long ride, short run brick Sun - AM long run, medium swim I'm hardly the person to offer advice on how to structure the run schedule to avoid injury. But my one observation of your current plan is that if you do your Monday trainer ride, then your legs don't get a rest on any day of the week. If it's any consolation, I too am struggling with run frequency, long run distance, and how to get the run volume in without upsetting one part of my anatomy or another. My latest thinking is perhaps five total runs weekly with 3 weekday runs at 6 miles, another at 7 miles, and the weekend "long" at about 8. If that turns out to be the magic formula for low 30's volume w/o re-injuring, then it's better than trying to draw the long run out to 10 miles or more and getting hurt again. I hope whatever you try works well for you. |
2011-02-08 11:35 PM in reply to: #3345189 |
Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... Experior - 2011-02-08 10:12 AM It's early, but how do you feel so far? Still hard to say, and my "long run" this week was the superbowl 10K, although I ran it faster than long run pace. Plan on 10 miles this weekend. Hardest thing is when medium runs are 4 miles, like this week, it's hard for me not to overindulge and do too much, I.e., "i should go 5...." This is what I am trying to avoid, overdoingit and getting injured., David - Yeah, I agree, and I do need a day off with the legs. Probably why I came home last (Monday) night and said "i don't wanna do anything." Especially if I am running long 10 miles on sunday. It still needs some tweaking, eh? |
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2011-02-09 11:01 AM in reply to: #3346266 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... ChrisM - 2011-02-08 11:35 PM Experior - 2011-02-08 10:12 AM It's early, but how do you feel so far? Still hard to say, and my "long run" this week was the superbowl 10K, although I ran it faster than long run pace. Plan on 10 miles this weekend. Hardest thing is when medium runs are 4 miles, like this week, it's hard for me not to overindulge and do too much, I.e., "i should go 5...." This is what I am trying to avoid, overdoingit and getting injured., David - Yeah, I agree, and I do need a day off with the legs. Probably why I came home last (Monday) night and said "i don't wanna do anything." Especially if I am running long 10 miles on sunday. It still needs some tweaking, eh? Specially if the Mon trainer ride is one of day 1 or 2 of the winter cycling plan, those tend to be very intense. A general rule is to leave at least 24 hrs before hard/intense sessions. i.e. if Sunday was your long run and finished it at 10am, then as long as you don't do any hard training until after 10am the next day you should have time to adjust. Still, some sessions might require more time (48 hrs) for your body to recover before been able to push hard/long again hence even if you train at 6pm the next day (32 hrs after your long run) you might still be plenty fatigued making that intense session feel even harder. That unless it is an active recover easy session (< 65% of CP) which can be mentally tough to do (because it is so short/easy) but that can be the best and faster way to recover. But as you move along with your plan you can tweak it based on how you adapt and learn how long you'll need for 'rest' between intense/long sessions. This will sound very cliche, but keep listening to your body and you can't go wrong! Also, take care of the details: rest/sleep extra when possible, fuel before/during/after training, self massage (foam roller), stretch, warm up/cool down, good every day nutrient dense diet, etc. |
2011-02-09 5:28 PM in reply to: #3346913 |
Subject: RE: HIM - Long run or consistent shorter runs..... Specially if the Mon trainer ride is one of day 1 or 2 of the winter cycling plan, those tend to be very intense. A general rule is to leave at least 24 hrs before hard/intense sessions. i.e. if Sunday was your long run and finished it at 10am, then as long as you don't do any hard training until after 10am the next day you should have time to adjust. Still, some sessions might require more time (48 hrs) for your body to recover before been able to push hard/long again hence even if you train at 6pm the next day (32 hrs after your long run) you might still be plenty fatigued making that intense session feel even harder. That unless it is an active recover easy session (< 65% of CP) which can be mentally tough to do (because it is so short/easy) but that can be the best and faster way to recover. But as you move along with your plan you can tweak it based on how you adapt and learn how long you'll need for 'rest' between intense/long sessions. This will sound very cliche, but keep listening to your body and you can't go wrong! Also, take care of the details: rest/sleep extra when possible, fuel before/during/after training, self massage (foam roller), stretch, warm up/cool down, good every day nutrient dense diet, etc. Yes, I came home Monday night to the thought of the 6 x 4s and just didn't have it in me. I do the trainer at night, but even if I run 7 am Sunday, that 7 pm Monday trainer is still hard, so I need to make Monday total rest day. Problem is that means 2/day every other day of the week. I seem to be holding up OK, this is just to get through California 70.3, then I'll re assess. Although, I have now run 11 of the last 14 days, and legs are holding up very well so far. |