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2011-02-21 9:23 AM

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Subject: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM

I have just started training for a HIM.  I want to play with nutrition and see what is going to work for me.  The bike course will have HEED.  I HATE the chemical, icky, powdery sports drinks.   I am a whole foods/natural type of girl. 

For example: favorite recovery beverage is chocolate milk or beer. 

I am in this to finish not to win any awards.  Any suggestions for nutrition on the bike (58 miles for this HIM) or run or even in transition?   Are there any recipes for decent drinks or even juice with maybe coconut milk and salt that would work?  Do you eat anything ever in transition?  bananas?  PB & J?   anything? 

I figure its going to take me 7.5-8 hours or so to finish. (I have no idea, I've just started training).



Edited by jogo 2011-02-21 9:25 AM


2011-02-21 9:31 AM
in reply to: #3364896

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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
I've wanted to experiment with mixing PB and honey in little zip-lock bags instead of using Gu... might be worth a shot.
2011-02-21 9:37 AM
in reply to: #3364896

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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
so powdered sugar cane is a chemical but beer is natural?

I think you have abandoned rationality and adopted a more philosophical stance, which is fine, but in the meantime theres nothing wrong with fructose/sucrose WHILE training (though that stuff is certainly bad for you any other time)

However if you go with beer as HIM hydration, I will applaud you and want to see the race report

Seriously though, if you don't want to use the on course calories you will want to go with something solid (dense) for calories and take water as handups, otherwise you will be hauling around a crapload of mass and bottles (drag!) during the ride.  maybe some organic fair trade granola bars and a banana.
 
2011-02-21 9:45 AM
in reply to: #3364931

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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM

jackmott - 2011-02-21 10:37 AM so powdered sugar cane is a chemical but beer is natural?

I think you have abandoned rationality and adopted a more philosophical stance, which is fine, but in the meantime theres nothing wrong with fructose/sucrose WHILE training (though that stuff is certainly bad for you any other time)

However if you go with beer as HIM hydration, I will applaud you and want to see the race report

Seriously though, if you don't want to use the on course calories you will want to go with something solid (dense) for calories and take water as handups, otherwise you will be hauling around a crapload of mass and bottles (drag!) during the ride.  maybe some organic fair trade granola bars and a banana.
 

Okay, so semantics are incorrect.  You got the idea of what I was asking.  As far as the beer, RECOVERY is what I said.  I have run with beer during a St. Patrick's day 4 mile and learned many lessons.  Beer is served on the course at the CRIM, which is a championship 10 miler here in Michigan.  It was also on course at the Detroit Marathon and the Chicago Marathon.  It is not outlandish but for me it is recovery and I was using it as an example.  (i.e. I HATE Recoverite too).

2011-02-21 10:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Well anything from gatoraid, fruit juice, gels, pbj, payday, banana...etc..  Mostly you want your solids to be easily digested if you are going to go that route.  Also you want your calorie intake to be sufficient. 
2011-02-21 10:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
HEED is pretty natural on the scale of sports drinks, but if you want to go that route,

I'd personally just start playing around with what works.
My personal go to solid food on the bike is poptarts but that would be along the same vein as sports drink/gel.

bananas while good are not a huge amount of calories for the size. something like PB&J with honey, etc, would be more bang for the buck.


2011-02-21 10:27 AM
in reply to: #3364960

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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
gotcha, for recovery just eat/drink whatever you want. it really won't matter.
beer and pizza!

 
2011-02-21 10:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM

jackmott - 2011-02-21 11:27 AM gotcha, for recovery just eat/drink whatever you want. it really won't matter.
beer and pizza!

 

I was really looking for suggestions for during a HIM.  I really hate the taste of HEED.  It tastes chemically to me.

2011-02-21 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
If you are going to avoid ingesting chemicals you are going to die in short order. Sorry. That's the facts.  

I hate discussing food labeling.  People argue about 'organic' food for example.  Pretty much all food is organic, our entire planet is/was mostly organisms, but noooooo. Someone had to make some stupid rule about it meaning holier-than-though overpriced bug-infested fee-range fruit that listens to classical music whilst getting massages....

If it tastes good and works for you, EAT IT.  The only way to determine the correct race nutrition for yourself is to experiment and track results of different nutrition while training.

-eric
2011-02-21 10:44 AM
in reply to: #3364896

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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
jogo - 2011-02-21 11:23 AM

I am in this to finish not to win any awards.  Any suggestions for nutrition on the bike (58 miles for this HIM) or run or even in transition?



Well, if you are planning to eat, drink or breathe during the race, you are pretty much stuck with chemicals

However, assuming that you meant "natural" as opposed to "synthectic" then experiement in training with the foods that you would prefer over sports drinks, gels, bars, etc.  In general you want to consume food that will be high in carbs, low in fat and maybe with a small amount of protein.  Everyone will react a little differently but use your training to find what works best for you and then go with that on race day.

There is nothing really special about sport nutrition; typically it will have lots of carbs (generally simple sugars), no fat, some products have small amounts of protein and some electrolytes.  This is all stuff you can get from real food but sports nutrition tends to be easier to carry and consume on race day.

The final piece of advice is that you should aim to take all nutrition and hydration while moving as opposed to standing still in transition.  Your goal should be to minimize the amount of time in transition so keeping it to a bare minimum and eat and drink while moving.

Shane

2011-02-21 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
I'm the same as you, jogo.  I don't eat very much processed food and it seems counter-intuitive to add chemicals to my diet while training for a race.  I'm not into really long distances yet (my HIM is in September) but I've thought a bit about it.  If you google "homemade sports drinks" you can find a whole bunch of recipes that are mostly juice, salt and water.  And usually they'll have some suggestions for race food too.  Here's one I have bookmarked:

http://www.cptips.com/hmdesnk.htm

Some of it is processed but there are some good ideas using more natural ingredients as well.  Here's another site for bars:

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/aa062403a.htm

If you come across something that works for you (or that's particularly yummy), please post it.  I'd love recommendations too!  


2011-02-21 11:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
jogo - 2011-02-21 10:30 AM

I was really looking for suggestions for during a HIM.  I really hate the taste of HEED.  It tastes chemically to me.



There are lots of homebrew recipes for liquid/solid nutition options, and store-bought options beyond Hammer, PowerBar, Gu, etc...  Do some homework & research now, so that you can play around with options during training.  No matter what nutrition plan you come up with, it should be one you've tested thoroughly throughout training.  Until you know your body better, race day is definitely not the time to be experimenting with nutrition...

But Shane shacked it - options like Heed & Gu are popular because they are designed/formulated to give most athletes what they need (as simply as possible) under race conditions - everything from digestibility, to nutrition, to packaging.

I applaud your efforts to eat natural stuff & all that jazz, but are you dismissive of companies like Hammer, Gu, etc because...

A.  ... they put something unnaturally engineered in their products?  If so, I'd be curious to know what your own research has flagged as a potential concern.  Or are you just making assumptions?

B.  ... they taste odd to you?  If that's the issue, then experiment more with other products, or just simply get over it.

You certainly don't have to use the race-course nutrition.  Many athletes use their own stuff instead.  I myself prefer to always "live off the course" (i.e. use whatever they are serving) because I paid for it , I don't have to carry as much crap on me, and because I know my body can handle all of the "standard" stuff offered in any given race (Hammer, Gu, Clif, PowerXxx, Gatorade, etc etc ).  I know that because I've experimented with all of those products over the years, and I'm truly blessed to have have a stomach & GI system that's a garbage disposal - it can handle just about anything I throw in there. 

Taste is not ever a concern for me - if I happen to notice that something tastes bad, then wash out mouth with water, and press on.  There's always water at run stations, and you should always have some water on your bike.  Problem solved!

Good luck with your race!

Cheers, Chris
2011-02-21 11:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Have you tried the new cliff gels they are 85% organic?? I really like the espresso and chocolate cherry. They have caffeine also. I get a pretty good jolt off of them.

I also saw a thread in the nutritional section about making your own sports drink. I am going to give it a try myself.

Here is a link the blog with directions:

TriOdyssey: March 2009
2011-02-21 11:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM

I have nothing against chemical and fully realize they are in many things. I just don't like the taste of powdered drinks. I can't plan on just getting over it as someone suggested. I am not new to tri's or marathons. I know what my body doesn't react well with. I can't stomach the aftertaste. Ick! Sorry, I have a spoiled palate. I am a very good cook. I have also had some bad experiences using gu, heed, recoverite. Really after you have a bad experience you don't necessarily want to "simply get over it". My HIM is in June so I am playing with options now. Cliff shot blocks are tolerable to me. I'll look for cliff gels.

Thank you lamb and Tracy for the links. I'll check them out.



Edited by jogo 2011-02-21 11:35 AM
2011-02-21 11:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
What about Gatorade? Do you have the same issue with that?

Personally, I hate gels of all kinds, so I never really use them. But I can drink Gatorade, and almost every race I've done has used that.
2011-02-21 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Jelly Belly Sport Beans


2011-02-21 1:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM

From a culinary point of view "honeystinger" is best for me. And easy on the stomach too.

2011-02-21 1:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
jogo - 2011-02-21 10:33 AM

I have nothing against chemical and fully realize they are in many things. I just don't like the taste of powdered drinks. I can't plan on just getting over it as someone suggested. I am not new to tri's or marathons. I know what my body doesn't react well with. I can't stomach the aftertaste. Ick! Sorry, I have a spoiled palate. I am a very good cook. I have also had some bad experiences using gu, heed, recoverite. Really after you have a bad experience you don't necessarily want to "simply get over it". My HIM is in June so I am playing with options now. Cliff shot blocks are tolerable to me. I'll look for cliff gels.

Thank you lamb and Tracy for the links. I'll check them out.




Ok, I dont want to sound like an here, but at the risk of doing so, i'm going to say what i'm thinking.

first, being a good cook/knowing about food/etc, HAS ZERO TO DO WITH IT. I've worked as a chef, both of my parents are chefs, as are a great many of my friends (and some very very good ones). A lot of them race, and their tastes in gels/drinks vary as much as anyone else.

second. YOU CAN for the most part learn to stomach, and then like, a lot more drinks/gels than you think. That's not to say you want to put in the effort required, but if you use something enough *most* of the time you'll grow to tolerate and hten at least not mind it.

I personally used to HATE heed. hate, gag, puke. But, i like living off the course, its easier and much less risky for me, and it was wildly easier for me to get and use it (race company i worked for, friends, etc, all had/got rid of it often so it just made sense).

I still dont love the taste, but 3 hours into a workout, when its hot out, the drink tastes the same. and it works for me. so i've grown to not mind it at all. Its just like with food. if you eat something enough you'll often grow to eitherl ike, or not mind it.

If you dont want to go that route, its perfectly ok.



Personally, if i were making my own drink, i'd head into a brewing store and pick up a big bag of maltodextrin and mix that with whatever flavoring you liked best
2011-02-21 1:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
If you have an issue with the taste of HEED, in particular (both the taste and the after-taste), than maybe another similar product will work. I personally can't stand HEED, and a lot of other pre-made mixes served at races, so I usually bring my own nutrition.

If, however, you are having GI/stomach issues with a lot of different sports drinks/bars, than it will be a bit harder to just 'use something else'. I've been trying to sort this all out myself, and have been reading up on fructose a lot. Some people just can't tolerate a high load of fructose- it causes bloating and other GI problems, which during a race, is obviously bad. Not all sugar or carbs are bad, though, so the key is to try to find things with Glucose, or a 2:1 ratio of glucose to fructose. Another thing to know, is that a lot of 'natural' products, ie. fruit, contain a TON of fructose. If you think this may be an issue, google 'fructose malabsorption'.

Anyways, what I've found to work, as far as liquid nutrition goes, is Carbo-pro in water, or gatorade. For actual eating, Gu Chomps have less fructose than Gu gels, and there are some Cliff products that have less fructose- but you have to very carefully read the labels, because the ingredients rarely say 'glucose' (Maltodextrin is OK, too).

I also found another drink, called Gleukos (cute, huh?) that looks really interesting, and uses all Glucose (http://www.gleukos.com/). I haven't tried it, yet, since I currently use carbo-pro, which is basically the same thing.

2011-02-21 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
For me it's both taste and chemicals, but namely the latter.  I do my best to eat whole foods and cook from raw ingredients.  I don't use artificial colours or flavours in my own cooking and try to avoid things that contain them.  Because I avoid artificial sweeteners/colours/additives, I often taste it when they're there.  Commercial sports drinks, bars, etc can be full of stuff like high fructose corn syrup - which I avoid like the plague - and can be artificially coloured and taste chemical-y.  I think that's reason enough to look around for alternatives, no?  If those things don't bother you, then don't worry about it.  But for other people who it DOES bother, it's not an issue of needing to harden up, it's about trying to find an alternative that suits their taste and lifestyle while still providing the nutritional benefit necessary to race long distances.

Ok, stepping off my soapbox now.  Tongue out

Edited by lamb_y2003 2011-02-21 1:29 PM
2011-02-21 1:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM

newbz - 2011-02-21 2:07 PM
jogo - 2011-02-21 10:33 AM

I have nothing against chemical and fully realize they are in many things. I just don't like the taste of powdered drinks. I can't plan on just getting over it as someone suggested. I am not new to tri's or marathons. I know what my body doesn't react well with. I can't stomach the aftertaste. Ick! Sorry, I have a spoiled palate. I am a very good cook. I have also had some bad experiences using gu, heed, recoverite. Really after you have a bad experience you don't necessarily want to "simply get over it". My HIM is in June so I am playing with options now. Cliff shot blocks are tolerable to me. I'll look for cliff gels.

Thank you lamb and Tracy for the links. I'll check them out.

Ok, I dont want to sound like an here, but at the risk of doing so, i'm going to say what i'm thinking. first, being a good cook/knowing about food/etc, HAS ZERO TO DO WITH IT. I've worked as a chef, both of my parents are chefs, as are a great many of my friends (and some very very good ones). A lot of them race, and their tastes in gels/drinks vary as much as anyone else. second. YOU CAN for the most part learn to stomach, and then like, a lot more drinks/gels than you think. That's not to say you want to put in the effort required, but if you use something enough *most* of the time you'll grow to tolerate and hten at least not mind it. I personally used to HATE heed. hate, gag, puke. But, i like living off the course, its easier and much less risky for me, and it was wildly easier for me to get and use it (race company i worked for, friends, etc, all had/got rid of it often so it just made sense). I still dont love the taste, but 3 hours into a workout, when its hot out, the drink tastes the same. and it works for me. so i've grown to not mind it at all. Its just like with food. if you eat something enough you'll often grow to eitherl ike, or not mind it. If you dont want to go that route, its perfectly ok. Personally, if i were making my own drink, i'd head into a brewing store and pick up a big bag of maltodextrin and mix that with whatever flavoring you liked best

At risk of sounding like a "B" right back at you.  Please know that I say this with the utmost respect for your opinion.  I respect that you are a coach and give anyone credit that can learn to like something. 

This HIM is a one time experience for me and I am determined to make it a good experience.  This is an "event" for me, not a race.  It is all in the experience.    I'm sure there is a better way than "tolerating" something.  I am determined that I will find that way for me.  I have a feeling, I will not be in a "survival" situation where I need to just have whatever is available.  I live in a world where there are choices and I am going to find the best choice for me.  Part of training is planning.  I am planning my event.  I am spoiled, like my palate, and I will not "learn" to like something if there is a better option. 

I just wanted to know if there were any options that people knew about, anything that tasted better, anything that I could maybe concoct at home.  I appreciate the benefits of HEED.  As I said, I've tried it in the past.  There are always options out there though.  For the next 17 weeks, I want to explore my options. 

Thank you for chiming in.  Its been an interesting discussion so far.

 

 



2011-02-21 1:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
I don't like a strong tasting sports drink either. Just something personal.

For calories I like Honey Stinger, Hammer, and also Infinite. I make a formula with very little taste and it works great.

For hyrdation, I am a big fan of Nuun.
2011-02-21 1:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Well certainly not natural but the best nutrition choice I made on my HIM: 

Ziplock bag of cheddar cheese Combo's in the bento box.   It was like a little piece of heaven in every bite.  And EVERYONE was jealous as they nawed on thier cliff bars.
2011-02-21 1:42 PM
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Subject: ...
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Edited by melbel1038 2011-02-21 1:44 PM
2011-02-21 1:44 PM
in reply to: #3364896

Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Hi jogo,

May I suggest exploring two options.  During races I will use organic coconut water.  Quite different from coconut milk, as natural coconut water is literally just the water from the inside of coconuts.  There are three brands: O.N.E., VitaCoco, and Zico.

The other is Vega Sport Performance Optimizer.  It is a vegan sports drink, and it really is quite tasty!  I use this before races and occasionally before training, however it can be used during as well.

Just beware if you train consistently with these, as they can become quite expensive! 
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