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2011-02-21 1:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
lamb_y2003 - 2011-02-21 3:28 PM

For me it's both taste and chemicals, but namely the latter.


But everything is chemicals; natural or synthetic, it is composed of chemicals.

Commercial sports drinks, bars, etc can be full of stuff like high fructose corn syrup - which I avoid like the plague


Any reason why or just personal preference?

it's about trying to find an alternative that suits their taste and lifestyle while still providing the nutritional benefit necessary to race long distances.


Which is why I said the OP should just experiement with things that they would prefer to eat.  There is definitely no requirement to use the commerical fueling/hydration options that are out there.  For the most part they are easy to use, easy to carry and readily available but most of the products haven't been around that long.  Whole food can definitely fuel an athlete through a HIM/IM the challenge is simply ensuring that it is something you will want to eat for the duration and carrying enough to meet caloric requirements on race day.  However, there are lots of stories of athletes racing IM on bananas, fig newtons, etc; it is just a matter of finding out what whole foods you can tolerate at race pace.

Shane


2011-02-21 1:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Uncrustables, water, gatorade, peanut m&ms
2011-02-21 1:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
I was on the course for 8 hours. During the bike I drank water and ate Fig Newtons which might be agreeable to you, I also took endurolytes, not sure if you'd be ok with those, you could always put sea salt in your water/juice. Cocunut milk would be awesome for most, I am alergic.
I would think you could make yourself a smoothie of some sort to use in training that agrees with you.
I also ate Chomps on the course which you may or may not be ok with. I have taken PB&J on the bike but found the newtons easier to handle though I have friends that cut them up into bite size pieces - just put them in your bento box.

While on the run I drank mostly water and continued with the endurolytes and started eating animal crackers around mile 7 which helped me a great deal.

Hope this gives you some ideas.
There are lots of options you just have to find the ones that work for you. I would suggest having more than one option though. I LOVE newtons but at a certain point I thought one more would make me puke and switched to Chomps.

Whatever you do train with it a lot first especially in the temps you will be training in. Something may agree with you in the cooler months but not in the heat.

2011-02-21 1:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
It's funny how effective the marketing department of sports nutrition companies is. I'm not a 'natural', 'whole foods', 'organic' kind of guy. At the same time, it's your choice and I won't criticize it. Personally, I'm just cheap and think a lot of the nutrition stuff is marketing hype (not that nutrition isn't needed, just that the products generally aren't).

Coconut juice is a great alternative, but make sure you can stomach it (even when it's warm!). It is high in carbs and sodium, and contains a little protein (like most 'endurance' drinks). It also has several trace elements/vitamins. Make sure it's OK for you on long rides though - it may cause GI issues. I would limit myself to one bottle of this along with water.

There are many options for solid foods. Obviously there are nuts and raisins/dried fruit (remember GORP?). Also, fruits can be taken with you (apples are easiest, and bananas aren't too bad if you can peal it while riding). There are also many 'organic' or natural sports bars manufacturers out there. Clif makes a few, and I got an 'Oatmega 3' bar at my last race. There are plenty of others too.

Whatever you choose, remember to test them out thoroughly in your training. It is important to know how eating anything will affect you during your race.
2011-02-21 2:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Coconut water is awesome, but it can have a laxative effect.  I have used it on the bike and run, but in small quantities.  I hate gatorade and powerade.  They both are way too sweet to me.  I tried HEED, and hated it too.  I mean absolutely HATED it.  That was the subtle melon flavor.  Then I tried the lemon-lime flavor and now HEED is my favorite.  I like the strawberry too.  Actually they all kinda taste the same.  They aren't too sweet, and the flavor is the same after a few hours.  It tolerates getting warm well too.  But......if you hate it, then don't drink it.  I would not want to even think about drinking gatorade during a HIM, and you might feel that way toward HEED.  There is CarboPro.  You can add that to anything.  There is a gel called e-gel that has electrolytes in it.  You can just use the gel with plain water.  It has 150 calories in it, no protein, fiber, or fat-just carbs.  I have used it on long runs.  The flavors are strong, but they aren't bad.  You might give that a shot.  I think crush sports makes it.  Good luck, and you are smart to nail the nutrition down early.  Good luck with your HIM.

jami 
2011-02-21 2:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
personally I don't have time to experiment w my own concoctions for races, between my training, rest, and general life duties...there just isn't any room for nutrition R&D.

thankfully there are so many great race nutrition products out there, I need to only find the ones I prefer. these products have already been race proven, so no need to re-invent.

I rely on race nutrition to keep me fueled for a strong performance, prevent bonking, cramping, and excessive muscle damage. Then the use of post-race nutrition to speed recovery and reduce damage.

while I do like Hammer products, HEED is not my favorite, but there are many others to choose.

look at it another way, if the race nutrition doesn't suit your palate, it will make that recovery meal that much tastier !!



2011-02-21 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Hi Jo,

Not trying to convince you of anything, just my own observations.  The "chemically" taste in drinks, I notice more at the bottom of the bottle.  It seems like some of the stuff settles.  I imagine that some of that could be reduced by mixing more than needed, then pouring off the top portion into your bottles.  Like you, I really don't like heed.  I prefer GuBrew because it doesn't have the heavy flavor.  Raspberry is my favorite ...

MALTODEXTRIN, FRUCTOSE, SODIUM CITRATE, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, POTASSIUM CITRATE, FRUIT AND VEGTABLE JUICE (AS COLOR)

Let me know if you want to try some flavors, I'll bring them to a Team Ben thing.

Also, I like some solids on the bike.  In the past I've used Clif brand "Z-bars".  They are basically organic chewy granola bars geared for kids.  Incidentally, this kid really likes them!    We all have different stomachs, and tastes, and it great that you are exploring this now, as opposed to two weeks before.  I also like a little pb, a banana, and some honey on whole wheat.  Other fats before or during a workout seem to upset my stomach, but this one works for some reason.  I would have never known it without experimenting.
2011-02-21 2:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
gsmacleod - 2011-02-21 1:48 PM
lamb_y2003 - 2011-02-21 3:28 PM

For me it's both taste and chemicals, but namely the latter.


But everything is chemicals; natural or synthetic, it is composed of chemicals.

Commercial sports drinks, bars, etc can be full of stuff like high fructose corn syrup - which I avoid like the plague


Any reason why or just personal preference?

it's about trying to find an alternative that suits their taste and lifestyle while still providing the nutritional benefit necessary to race long distances.


Which is why I said the OP should just experiement with things that they would prefer to eat.  There is definitely no requirement to use the commerical fueling/hydration options that are out there.  For the most part they are easy to use, easy to carry and readily available but most of the products haven't been around that long.  Whole food can definitely fuel an athlete through a HIM/IM the challenge is simply ensuring that it is something you will want to eat for the duration and carrying enough to meet caloric requirements on race day.  However, there are lots of stories of athletes racing IM on bananas, fig newtons, etc; it is just a matter of finding out what whole foods you can tolerate at race pace.

Shane


You're being difficult.  LOL.  Yes, I know that things are all chemicals - H20 and all that jazz ,right?  I just prefer to eat things that have not been chemically altered or processed as much as I can.   I don't eat organic food all the time, I'm not a zealot or a hippie, I just want to be the person that changes it from raw to finished.  I can control what's put into my body that way.  I like to avoid artificial (ha ha) chemicals that are only there to increase shelf-life for example but may have or cause other issues, or may just taste bad to me.  Instead I shop as I go and prepare/cook as I go and I can avoid that stuff pretty easily.  It's the way I choose to feed myself and my family.

The HFCS (known as sugar/glucose-fructose in Canada) issue is also about processing and how that changes the way it's used in foods and the way it's used in our bodies.  I know it's controversial in some circles so I won't argue it here but *I* choose to avoid it completely.
 
Your last paragraph I completely agree with.  But I think your last sentence was the OP's question, don't you?  WHAT whole foods (other than bananas & fig newtons)?  God, I'd never do bananas - how gross would they be?  See, I'm picky too.  I'm extremely hard to please.  LOL. 
2011-02-21 2:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Paydays
PB+J
Lava Gel (hard to find but tasty)
Pre-packaged Nip Cheese crackers

I take in one of the above every 30 minutes on the bike.

I have seen people eating pre-packaged baked potatoes but I haven't tried that myself


Edited by pschriver 2011-02-21 2:23 PM
2011-02-21 2:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
I have experimented with tons of different nutritional supplements (both whole/natural and processed) for cycling over the years.  My favorite two natural things, by far, are PB filled pretzels and grapes.  Both are easily digestable and easily transportable and neither of them will melt.  For purchased items, I like Sharkies the best (organic chews that are smaller than shot blocks or the like).  I don't like liquid nutrition when cycling - I need something solid in my stomach and most commercial drinks are too sweet for me anyway.  For electrolytes, I use Nunn tablets in my water when needed.

Disclaimer: I have no idea how any of these things would work for me on a run.   I'm not yet running distances that require nutrition and my longest tri's so far have been sprints. 

Good luck finding what works for you!
2011-02-21 3:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
newbz - 2011-02-21 1:07 PM
jogo - 2011-02-21 10:33 AM

I have nothing against chemical and fully realize they are in many things. I just don't like the taste of powdered drinks. I can't plan on just getting over it as someone suggested. I am not new to tri's or marathons. I know what my body doesn't react well with. I can't stomach the aftertaste. Ick! Sorry, I have a spoiled palate. I am a very good cook. I have also had some bad experiences using gu, heed, recoverite. Really after you have a bad experience you don't necessarily want to "simply get over it". My HIM is in June so I am playing with options now. Cliff shot blocks are tolerable to me. I'll look for cliff gels.

Thank you lamb and Tracy for the links. I'll check them out.

Ok, I dont want to sound like an here, but at the risk of doing so, i'm going to say what i'm thinking. first, being a good cook/knowing about food/etc, HAS ZERO TO DO WITH IT. I've worked as a chef, both of my parents are chefs, as are a great many of my friends (and some very very good ones). A lot of them race, and their tastes in gels/drinks vary as much as anyone else. second. YOU CAN for the most part learn to stomach, and then like, a lot more drinks/gels than you think. That's not to say you want to put in the effort required, but if you use something enough *most* of the time you'll grow to tolerate and hten at least not mind it. I personally used to HATE heed. hate, gag, puke. But, i like living off the course, its easier and much less risky for me, and it was wildly easier for me to get and use it (race company i worked for, friends, etc, all had/got rid of it often so it just made sense). I still dont love the taste, but 3 hours into a workout, when its hot out, the drink tastes the same. and it works for me. so i've grown to not mind it at all. Its just like with food. if you eat something enough you'll often grow to eitherl ike, or not mind it. If you dont want to go that route, its perfectly ok. Personally, if i were making my own drink, i'd head into a brewing store and pick up a big bag of maltodextrin and mix that with whatever flavoring you liked best


i agree with the living on the course...eventhough i was burned by this on a 70.3 race.  overall its SO much easier.  takes all the thinking and carrying crap out of the equation....


2011-02-21 5:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
brownies...
2011-02-21 5:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
newbz - 2011-02-21 5:06 PM brownies...


pft..
2011-02-21 5:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM

Bananas, salt, water, honey, maple syrup.

Avoid high fiber in the race, especially if you are going to be out there for 8 hours.

2011-02-21 5:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
trix - 2011-02-21 4:16 PM

newbz - 2011-02-21 5:06 PM brownies...


pft..


You know you want to...........






On topic, my real issue with real food in a race has nothing to do with not wanting to take it, but not being able to carry it all.
On long training rides i do take some real food, or whatever will fit in my pockets, but in a race i've got no where to put it all, the gels/drinks offer me a much easier way to carry it.
2011-02-21 5:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
I like maltodextrin & EmergenC in my water bottles -- 250 cals + electrolytes w/ a very mild flavor.   I started using the mix last spring during a half marathon and I was amazed that I had no stomach upset & I PR'd.  Usually I feel quite sick during a race if I have gatorade/heed/clif bars/gus/chews which forces me to slow down.  I think both citric acid and fructose cause me problems.  For me, practicing in training wasn't enough -- it's when I go all out in a race that I have issues with nutrition.

For solids, Justin's almond butter w/ honey or maple syrup is tasty & easy. 


2011-02-21 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Make and eat your own energy bars and freeze some juice in a bottle the night before then put it on your bike before your wave starts.
2011-02-21 5:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
newbz - 2011-02-21 5:35 PM
trix - 2011-02-21 4:16 PM
newbz - 2011-02-21 5:06 PM brownies...


pft..
You know you want to........... On topic, my real issue with real food in a race has nothing to do with not wanting to take it, but not being able to carry it all. On long training rides i do take some real food, or whatever will fit in my pockets, but in a race i've got no where to put it all, the gels/drinks offer me a much easier way to carry it.


i was thinking of just making sandwiches in my next HIM...just take some pb and j and toast and have a picnic...
2011-02-21 6:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
skarl - 2011-02-21 5:41 PM I like maltodextrin & EmergenC in my water bottles -- 250 cals + electrolytes w/ a very mild flavor.   I started using the mix last spring during a half marathon and I was amazed that I had no stomach upset & I PR'd.  Usually I feel quite sick during a race if I have gatorade/heed/clif bars/gus/chews which forces me to slow down.  I think both citric acid and fructose cause me problems.  For me, practicing in training wasn't enough -- it's when I go all out in a race that I have issues with nutrition.

For solids, Justin's almond butter w/ honey or maple syrup is tasty & easy. 


I am going to try the above. I have stomach issues when I race running races. I figure it can't hurt to try something new.
2011-02-21 6:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
You're going to have two issues -- electrolytes and calories.  I know someone who solved the calorie issue with solely Larabars for a HIM -- they are dense, and their fructose and glucose come from fruits and the protein is from nuts.  He said he didn't want to LOOK at a Larabar again for months afterward, but it got the job done.  Peanut butter and honey in packets is another option for food.

That leaves electrolytes.  I cannot stand Gatorade, etc. either, and when I recently did a 4 hour ride the guy who did his HIM on larabars suggested NUUN tablets for hydration.  The flavor is mild and not chemical-y and it provides the electrolytes you need.  I had two water bottles and one had NUUN and the other had water.  It doesn't give you calories, though, so you definitely need to figure out the fuel aspect and can't count on your liquid to give you both.  

Good luck to you!  
2011-02-21 6:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
 My HIM is in June so I am playing with options now. Cliff shot blocks are tolerable to me. I'll look for cliff gels.

Do this, or bring bars if you prefer solid food.  There are plenty of recipes for homemade bars too - just wrap them in aluminum foil.  Then drink plain water from the aid stations and avoid the Heed if you can't stand it.


2011-02-21 7:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
I feel like a heathen eating red licorice and a spoonful of chocolate icing while I read this thread.
2011-02-21 7:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
trigal38 - 2011-02-21 6:09 PM

I feel like a heathen eating red licorice and a spoonful of chocolate icing while I read this thread.



dont worry i was eating pizza and ice cream.
2011-02-21 7:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
Great thread, and good question.
Aside from the debate over natural or chemical..
Not sure how you feel about snacks. I like a snickers bar on my bike in transition. If it melts, it is like a crunchy gel. Can't beat it with a stick for quick calories.
As others have said, you have to look for what your stomach can handle. Depending on the conditions, solid food may be too hard for you to digest.
That being said, go for calorie density over nutritional density during a race of that distance.
 You can do a fruit juice on the bike, as well as a PB&J or honey packets.
On the run, it depends. I don't like as much solids on the run, but if you get hungry, you gots to eat!
Banana and some more PB. You can put PB in those little ziplocs and rip off the corner with your mouth and then squeeze it out like a gel.
For electrolytes, check out some of the salt tablets or just have salt and lemon in your water.
Good luck, and enjoy the beer post race!
 
2011-02-21 7:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Non chemical nutrition during a HIM
jogo - 2011-02-21 12:33 PM

I have nothing against chemical and fully realize they are in many things. I just don't like the taste of powdered drinks. I can't plan on just getting over it as someone suggested. I am not new to tri's or marathons. I know what my body doesn't react well with. I can't stomach the aftertaste. Ick! Sorry, I have a spoiled palate. I am a very good cook. I have also had some bad experiences using gu, heed, recoverite. Really after you have a bad experience you don't necessarily want to "simply get over it". My HIM is in June so I am playing with options now. Cliff shot blocks are tolerable to me. I'll look for cliff gels.

Thank you lamb and Tracy for the links. I'll check them out.



I was going to suggest the shot blocks, Gu makes Chomps that are the same thing. To me they are like fruit snacks. I think most of these companies do a pretty good job of keeping things as close to "organic" as possible and gluten free, lactose free. They know who they are marketing to, a group of athletes who can be super picky about what they put in their bodies, so they are going to do their best to make a "natural" product.
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