latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.

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2011-02-23 1:43 PM

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Subject: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
I'm getting ready for some upcoming races, just got a 404 front to pair with my rear disc covered PT.  3 questions

1.  Crack pipe.  I bought this from my LBS.

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/silca-presta-adapter-for-disc-wheels.html

It works fine with my floor pump...but I noticed it doesn't work with a C02 chuck.  Are these not meant to be used with C02?  Not really a problem though...my C02 head fits fine over the valve in the little hole cut out in the disc cover.  I really just bought it for my floor pump because the head doesn't fit in the cover hole.  Just curious about the C02 though.

2.  Valve Extenders.  The 404 I picked up came with a 80 mm stem tube.  But since I'm also using a 30mm deep PT wheel with a cover as my rear, I didn't want to use 80mm tubes as my spares.  The 80mm tube with my disc cover would make it a tight squeeze to get my C02 head onto the valve given the size of the hole cut out in the cover.  I would much rather use a 48mm tube as my spares.  But if I have 48mm tubes, I need to use an extender for the front.  I don't want to carry both 48 and 80 mm tubes.  What if the front or back flats twice and I run out of the one I need?

I'm shying away from those extenders that require you to remove the valve core simply because I've never seen a tube with a removeable core before.  Just browsing the section of my LBS where tubes are on the shelf...never seen them. I've looked around and decided on the topeak valve extenders that screw on to the existing stem, then uses a plunger to unscrew and screw down the existing valve tip.  No teflon tape required.  Problem solved...right?  Which goes into my next question...

3.  Latex tubes.  I'm willing to give these guys a shot given the positive discussions they've had recently (spares will still be butyl though as I heard you need to be more careful when installing latex to avoid pinches).  The problem I see is that almost all latex tubes I've looked at have smooth valve stems.  Which leads me to believe that it won't be possible to screw the topeak valve extenders onto them.  Is this true?  Or is it still possible to screw the topeak extenders while creating a air tight seal when inflating them?

I presume the Zipp extenders will work...but I've heard much better things about the topeak extenders.

Thanks

2011-02-23 2:16 PM
in reply to: #3369046

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Expert
1322
1000100100100
Savannah
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
I've gone through the exact same thought process when my race setup was 808 front/27mm rear with cover.

1.  I didn't need a crack pipe because my c02 chuck fit inside the wheelcover cutout without a problem.

2.  Spare tire setup.  I used 50mm butyl tube with teflon tape wrapped around the valve and a spare zipp valve extender, unattached.  So if the back blew, I just throw on the tube.  If the front blew i'd twist the extender on (took about 2 secs) and replace the front. 

3.  My latex tubes have removable cores (Challenge Corsa) so I like the Topeak extenders with removeable cores for the latex. 

Just a side note.  Since you run two very different rim depths your spare setup needs to be flexible enough to accomodate a front or rear blowout.  So the 80mm stem and removable cores options are out because they won't leave you clearance on the rear to inflate.  Removing an extender, removing the core from an extender, placing it back in the original valve stem is not something I want to do during a race.  The only option left is the 50mm stem and extender.  Sounds like you've already thought it all though.

Edited by mktoson 2011-02-23 2:21 PM
2011-02-23 2:29 PM
in reply to: #3369117

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
The Zipp extenders aren't too bad if you tighten them with an allen wrench.  If you try to hand-tighten them, they almost always fail to get a tight seal.
2011-02-23 2:32 PM
in reply to: #3369046

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Elite
3315
20001000100100100
Miami
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.

- i used to run almost identical setup....FP60 / PT with cover and had similar issues...so here goes

1) 

- never used a crack pipe, usually i leave 1 screw undone prior to the race and just tighten it in transition morning of race once i pump up the tire put the screw in and ta da ready to go
- never used a crack pipe with co2 

2)
- i used an 80mm latext tubbie for front and rear, no extended was needed....
- carried 80 mm spare

hope that helps makes some stuff easier.


now here is some info you might find interesting....during my HIM i had a flats, since i used the 80mm i had to unscrew the cover to change the tube....it took me about 7-8 min....normally it will take about 2-3 min on a clincher for me.

2011-02-23 2:32 PM
in reply to: #3369046

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Expert
1322
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Savannah
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
When using teflon tape, I've never had a problem with the Zipp valve extenders.  And I've always just used my hands to twist them down.  But of course n=1.  I've heard a the stories with people having problems with them.
2011-02-23 3:08 PM
in reply to: #3369046

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Master
2327
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Columbia, TN
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.

Great questions.

First, that crack pipe is meant to be used with your floor pump.  It's actually a shrader end it looks like.  So if you really wanted, a CO2 inflator compatible with Shrader could be used...but of course, don't bother.

Here's what I did for valve extenders, and I feel so good about my choice that I highly recommend this to everyone:

I got the topeak extenders.  I bought 2 but didn't need to.  I found that I like it best when I DO NOT LEAVE THEM ON the wheel. 

1 screw it on to the valve
2 use the plunger to open the valve
3 air it up
4 use the plunger to close the valve
5 unscrew the valve extender


Now move on to the other wheel.

This lets you buy just one valve extender, unless you need one long enough for your front wheel, but shorter for the rear
wheel cover.  But you can easily pack these extenders in your flat kit and use them if you need to fix a flat.  You will
now be buying less expensive (probably...or at least more readily available) tubes.  If you do flat, you save time because
you don't have to remove the valve extender from the flat tire.  This may be trivial, but I like knowing I don't have a valve
extending into the air stream when I ride too...I know, I'm obsessive. 

 

2011-02-23 3:14 PM
in reply to: #3369117

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Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.


Just a side note.  Since you run two very different rim depths your spare setup needs to be flexible enough to accomodate a front or rear blowout.  So the 80mm stem and removable cores options are out because they won't leave you clearance on the rear to inflate.  Removing an extender, removing the core from an extender, placing it back in the original valve stem is not something I want to do during a race.  The only option left is the 50mm stem and extender.  Sounds like you've already thought it all though.


Yeah...this is why I was leaning towards the topeak extenders.  48-50 mm stem tubes with a 43mm extender.  Not the ones that require you to remove the valve tip and replace it into the extender...these ones.

http://www.trivillage.com/toptir0100.html

I was reading about them in some archived ST forums.  My initial impression was that they screwed on the original valve...meaning it needed to be threaded.  But that may not be the case...it may work like the Zipp valves that just go right over them.  Can anyone who's used them clarify?

The topeaks seem more appealing because it has the option to close the valve where the valve stays open in the Zipps.  It's also about 40% cheaper.
2011-02-23 3:19 PM
in reply to: #3369215

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Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
JeffY - 2011-02-23 10:08 AM

 

I got the topeak extenders.  I bought 2 but didn't need to.  I found that I like it best when I DO NOT LEAVE THEM ON the wheel. 

1 screw it on to the valve
2 use the plunger to open the valve
3 air it up
4 use the plunger to close the valve
5 unscrew the valve extender




Ahh...see...here's my question.  Do these extenders require you use tubes with threaded stems?  The latex tubes I've been looking at all have smooth stems. 

But since I only plan to use latex for my initial tubes in the tires, I suppose I could get a 80mm latex for my 404 front and a 48mm latex for my rear.  If I flat, I'm using butyl, and all my butyl tubes are threaded.  I don't plan to change a flat and replace with a latex.

2011-02-23 3:29 PM
in reply to: #3369242

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Master
1572
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Baltimore
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
tri808 - 2011-02-23 4:19 PM
JeffY - 2011-02-23 10:08 AM

 

I got the topeak extenders.  I bought 2 but didn't need to.  I found that I like it best when I DO NOT LEAVE THEM ON the wheel. 

1 screw it on to the valve
2 use the plunger to open the valve
3 air it up
4 use the plunger to close the valve
5 unscrew the valve extender




Ahh...see...here's my question.  Do these extenders require you use tubes with threaded stems?  The latex tubes I've been looking at all have smooth stems. 

But since I only plan to use latex for my initial tubes in the tires, I suppose I could get a 80mm latex for my 404 front and a 48mm latex for my rear.  If I flat, I'm using butyl, and all my butyl tubes are threaded.  I don't plan to change a flat and replace with a latex.



FYI - I could never find an 80mm latex.  i went with the extenders for the latex and have spare 80mm butyl.  if I flat in the back I can either take a screw out of the cover as someone suggested or just make the cutout deeper into the wheelcover.  I haven't actually checked the clearance with the 80mm and my Co2, so not sure how deep that would be yet.
2011-02-23 3:30 PM
in reply to: #3369233

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Elite
3315
20001000100100100
Miami
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
tri808 - 2011-02-23 3:14 PM


Just a side note.  Since you run two very different rim depths your spare setup needs to be flexible enough to accomodate a front or rear blowout.  So the 80mm stem and removable cores options are out because they won't leave you clearance on the rear to inflate.  Removing an extender, removing the core from an extender, placing it back in the original valve stem is not something I want to do during a race.  The only option left is the 50mm stem and extender.  Sounds like you've already thought it all though.


Yeah...this is why I was leaning towards the topeak extenders.  48-50 mm stem tubes with a 43mm extender.  Not the ones that require you to remove the valve tip and replace it into the extender...these ones.

http://www.trivillage.com/toptir0100.html

I was reading about them in some archived ST forums.  My initial impression was that they screwed on the original valve...meaning it needed to be threaded.  But that may not be the case...it may work like the Zipp valves that just go right over them.  Can anyone who's used them clarify?

The topeaks seem more appealing because it has the option to close the valve where the valve stays open in the Zipps.  It's also about 40% cheaper.


i used them but they requir to be screwed on.  they work very well.
2011-02-23 3:48 PM
in reply to: #3369256

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Elite
3315
20001000100100100
Miami
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
jsiegs - 2011-02-23 3:29 PM
tri808 - 2011-02-23 4:19 PM
JeffY - 2011-02-23 10:08 AM

 

I got the topeak extenders.  I bought 2 but didn't need to.  I found that I like it best when I DO NOT LEAVE THEM ON the wheel. 

1 screw it on to the valve
2 use the plunger to open the valve
3 air it up
4 use the plunger to close the valve
5 unscrew the valve extender




Ahh...see...here's my question.  Do these extenders require you use tubes with threaded stems?  The latex tubes I've been looking at all have smooth stems. 

But since I only plan to use latex for my initial tubes in the tires, I suppose I could get a 80mm latex for my 404 front and a 48mm latex for my rear.  If I flat, I'm using butyl, and all my butyl tubes are threaded.  I don't plan to change a flat and replace with a latex.



FYI - I could never find an 80mm latex.  i went with the extenders for the latex and have spare 80mm butyl.  if I flat in the back I can either take a screw out of the cover as someone suggested or just make the cutout deeper into the wheelcover.  I haven't actually checked the clearance with the 80mm and my Co2, so not sure how deep that would be yet.


trust me if you have a pt w/cover just pray you don't flat.  there is clearance but it becomes a real pain.

2011-02-23 3:54 PM
in reply to: #3369242

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Master
2327
200010010010025
Columbia, TN
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
Yes, it must thread on to threads on the valve stem.  But they all have them.  Look at this photo and notice the threads near the top that are SILVER.  While your valve stems may not have the other threads in the brass, they do have the threads above that.   topeak extenders (and all others) use those threads so you are good.



2011-02-23 5:30 PM
in reply to: #3369046

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Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
Jeff,

Thanks for the clarification.  Yes, the latex tubes I have been looking at online have that threading near the valve head...it's just the rest of the stem that's smooth.  So looks like it will work with the topeak extenders.
2011-02-23 6:06 PM
in reply to: #3369046

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Pro
3804
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Seacoast, NH!
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
Glad this discussion has come up.  I have always ran HED3's so I never have had to use extenders.  If I have an 808 front, should I be looking for a short stem and longer valve extender and just leave it on??
2011-02-23 6:16 PM
in reply to: #3369046

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Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
Ok...last question...I promise.  But also relating to the question above.

If I use a 48mm tube, and pair it with a 43mm extension...does that mean my valve is now 91mm long.  Or is it closer to 75mm because of the "overlap" where the two valves connect?

So I guess what I'm asking is if an extender is listed as 43mm, does that mean it effectively makes your valve 43mm longer...or is 43mm the actual length of the extender...and the effective increase in valve length is shorter?

Edited by tri808 2011-02-23 6:16 PM
2011-02-24 1:11 AM
in reply to: #3369046

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Master
1433
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Calgary, AB
Silver member
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
I am going to be in exactly the same boat as you. I have decided to carry butyl 80mm spare tubes, and cut my opening in the disc a little bigger. I will also carry a topeak extender in case have to borrow a tube.




2011-02-24 8:23 AM
in reply to: #3369046

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Veteran
503
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Bedford, NH
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
I havent been able to find any 80mm latex tubes.  Is there a reason why they dont seem to make these?  I would think that a good majority of the people who are using latex tubes are using aero wheels.  Sounds like the next best option is to get an topeak extender and use 43mm latex (but carry 80mm butyl for a spare).  This would for 404's with a rear wheel cover.
2011-02-24 8:46 AM
in reply to: #3370121

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Master
2327
200010010010025
Columbia, TN
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
mjengstrom - 2011-02-24 8:23 AM I havent been able to find any 80mm latex tubes.  Is there a reason why they dont seem to make these?  I would think that a good majority of the people who are using latex tubes are using aero wheels.  Sounds like the next best option is to get an topeak extender and use 43mm latex (but carry 80mm butyl for a spare).  This would for 404's with a rear wheel cover.


Your logic is perfectly correct.  They would sell a lot of them.
In fact, latex tubes in general see to be in short supply.  Why doesn't supply catch up with demand?

You are right about using the shorter valve latex with an extender.  If you use the topeak extender, you can also use a short valve butyl tube as your spare if you want.  Although your plan might save you 10 seconds during a flat repair.
2011-02-24 10:54 AM
in reply to: #3370170

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Master
1433
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Calgary, AB
Silver member
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
JeffY - 2011-02-24 7:46 AM
If you use the topeak extender, you can also use a short valve butyl tube as your spare if you want.  Although your plan might save you 10 seconds during a flat repair.


Or your race. Dudes have split the extenders in their rush to get them on. No reason not to carry 80mm spare if you have 60mm or shorter wheels, just less crap to go wrong/break IMO.

2011-02-24 11:22 AM
in reply to: #3370468

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Expert
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Savannah
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
Khyron - 2011-02-24 11:54 AM
JeffY - 2011-02-24 7:46 AM
If you use the topeak extender, you can also use a short valve butyl tube as your spare if you want.  Although your plan might save you 10 seconds during a flat repair.


Or your race. Dudes have split the extenders in their rush to get them on. No reason not to carry 80mm spare if you have 60mm or shorter wheels, just less crap to go wrong/break IMO.



What about when you have a 60mm front and a 27mm rear with a wheelcover on it?  An 80mm valve stem on the rear extenders higher than the wheelcover cutout, which gives you access to the  valve stem.  That's the whole point of the thread.

2011-02-24 12:56 PM
in reply to: #3369046

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
@op....the silver crack pipe will screw into a can of Fast Air if you want to try the quick fix if you puncture latex.
http://www.amazon.com/Hutchinson-Fast-Tubeless-Bicycle-Sealant/dp/B...



2011-02-24 9:02 PM
in reply to: #3370520

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Master
1433
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Calgary, AB
Silver member
Subject: RE: latex tubes, valve extenders, and crack pipes.
mktoson - 2011-02-24 10:22 AM
Khyron - 2011-02-24 11:54 AM
JeffY - 2011-02-24 7:46 AM
If you use the topeak extender, you can also use a short valve butyl tube as your spare if you want.  Although your plan might save you 10 seconds during a flat repair.


Or your race. Dudes have split the extenders in their rush to get them on. No reason not to carry 80mm spare if you have 60mm or shorter wheels, just less crap to go wrong/break IMO.



What about when you have a 60mm front and a 27mm rear with a wheelcover on it?  An 80mm valve stem on the rear extenders higher than the wheelcover cutout, which gives you access to the  valve stem.  That's the whole point of the thread.



Cut the cutout 2 cm bigger.


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