General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Estimating swim time for pool swim tri Rss Feed  
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2011-03-14 10:26 AM

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Subject: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri

I know I have read a few places to take about 15 sec of what you think you will swim, and I was going to do this, but I don't want to slow people down who are legitimately that fast.

The tri I'm looking at has a 300 yd pool swim and usually has about 300 people, not sure what the intervals will be. Does anyone know about what they usually use, 10 sec maybe?

Right now I'm looking at swimming about 4:45 but I was thinking about signing up as 4:29 to get ahead of all those 4:30 people, but then I realized I could see what everyone else put for there estimated swim time on the sign up roster, I saw a handfull of people that put down 4:30 and now I don't want to be in there way if they are really that fast.

I wonder what everyone else does for estimating times, I noticed one person from my tri team put down what she really will swim, and another name I recognized from a race last year, well he put down 3:30 for his time and last fall (I went and checked) he swam 1:55/100 for a 750yd swim. Maybe he is faster thru improvement/shorter distance, but 3:30 is pretty fast for this small town tri.

What does everyone else do?



Edited by cstoulil 2011-03-14 10:26 AM


2011-03-14 10:54 AM
in reply to: #3396807

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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
Put down a legitimate swim time.  Those around you will thank you.  Wouldn't you want the others to do the same?
2011-03-14 10:56 AM
in reply to: #3396807

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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri

I've always put down what I thought I'd swim it in. With the exception of my first race (when I guestimated my time 1 mo after I started swimming & 2 mo prior to race), I've finished the swim withing 5 seconds of my predicted time. Triathlon is an individual sport; quit worrying about what everybody else is doing and  focus on YOUR plan. If you have to pass people, so be it.

Also, in my experience, it's much better when you get under 5:00 for a 300yd swim. The range of swimmers near the 6:00 time mark are completely all over the place.

2011-03-14 11:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
camy - 2011-03-14 11:56 AM

I've always put down what I thought I'd swim it in. With the exception of my first race (when I guestimated my time 1 mo after I started swimming & 2 mo prior to race), I've finished the swim withing 5 seconds of my predicted time. Triathlon is an individual sport; quit worrying about what everybody else is doing and  focus on YOUR plan. If you have to pass people, so be it.

Also, in my experience, it's much better when you get under 5:00 for a 300yd swim. The range of swimmers near the 6:00 time mark are completely all over the place.

x2

If you have any question, do a 500 m TT and the figure it out based on that time. If you put a faster time then you can swim, you should feel bad about slowing up swimmers who put down their actual times.

2011-03-14 11:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
X2 for signing up for your actual pace. This is such a short swim so that it really won't make that much of a difference overall. I would focus gaining time by really getting the transition dialed down. Know how to exit the pool and how T2 will work and then set up to really benefit.

On a side note, make sure you don't blow too much energy trying to pass or frustrated by someone who seeded themselves wrong for the swim. Plan on it happening and keep your cool, I've seen people waste a bunch of energy being frustrated by others.

Best of luck!
2011-03-14 11:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri

If you put a faster time then you can swim, you should feel bad about slowing up swimmers who put down their actual times.

x2.



2011-03-14 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri

Yeah I'm going to put down what I think I will swim, I'll do a 300 sometime this week to see how I come out, I've changed a few things recently and should be a few seconds faster.

I said I was going to put down 15 sec faster, but I can't consciously do it when I sign up, so I'll put down what I get for my time in the pool this week.

I looked at some old results though and one guy that swam it 6:14 last year put down 4:29 and another person pooped out at me with a 3:30 so I googled her, found her blog, and this will be her first triathlon ever.

But in all there are only about 15 or so out of 105 signed up that put down a time faster than me, so hopefully not too many get in my way, and I certainly don't want to hold anyone up either.



Edited by cstoulil 2011-03-14 11:10 AM
2011-03-14 11:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
japarker24 - 2011-03-14 12:05 PM

If you put a faster time then you can swim, you should feel bad about slowing up swimmers who put down their actual times.

x2.

OTOH- A large (8-900) local pool swim sprint I've done is well-done for the Liar's Poker that goes on in estimating swim times.  One year as an honest 8:45/400M swimmer- despite time trial (5-10sec) starts I had 23 (yes23-my wife took picture from natatorium balcony) swimmers backed up waiting to make one lane switch.  Cost me over 2 min & much frustration. Next yr I dropped my self-reported swim time & STILL was held up by many overoptimistic swimmers.

I would look at prior year results to see how you might fit in among those participants (fast-medium-slow), then report accordingly.

2011-03-14 11:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
In my experience, people almost always put down a faster time than what they can really do. So, I basically do the same and have had minimal problems with passing/being passed. The more you race, especially in a given city/region, the better you get at figuring out where you should be in line. I generally start about 10-15 spots back from the front with pretty good success.
2011-03-14 11:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
cstoulil - 2011-03-14 11:08 AM

Yeah I'm going to put down what I think I will swim, I'll do a 300 sometime this week to see how I come out, I've changed a few things recently and should be a few seconds faster.

I said I was going to put down 15 sec faster, but I can't consciously do it when I sign up, so I'll put down what I get for my time in the pool this week.

I looked at some old results though and one guy that swam it 6:14 last year put down 4:29 and another person pooped out at me with a 3:30 so I googled her, found her blog, and this will be her first triathlon ever.

But in all there are only about 15 or so out of 105 signed up that put down a time faster than me, so hopefully not too many get in my way, and I certainly don't want to hold anyone up either.

1. No one should ever poop at you, it's against the rules of conduct.

2. If she's a former competitive swimmer that should easily be her time.

2011-03-14 12:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
Oldteen - 2011-03-14 11:19 AM
japarker24 - 2011-03-14 12:05 PM

If you put a faster time then you can swim, you should feel bad about slowing up swimmers who put down their actual times.

x2.

OTOH- A large (8-900) local pool swim sprint I've done is well-done for the Liar's Poker that goes on in estimating swim times.  One year as an honest 8:45/400M swimmer- despite time trial (5-10sec) starts I had 23 (yes23-my wife took picture from natatorium balcony) swimmers backed up waiting to make one lane switch.  Cost me over 2 min & much frustration. Next yr I dropped my self-reported swim time & STILL was held up by many overoptimistic swimmers.

I would look at prior year results to see how you might fit in among those participants (fast-medium-slow), then report accordingly.

It is indeed a game of liar's poker.  I keep dropping my (not quite honest times) and still haven't gotten to the right place in line.  Last Olympic ocean swim I put down a very aggressive time and still passed 25+ people.  I haven't learned well enough, evidently.

No way I would put down an honest time.  Put down a time you think will slot you in about the right spot.  Two very different things.



2011-03-14 1:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
This might be a really stupid question.  But my first ever tri is in the first part of april and it is one of these pool swims.  How do they actually work?  They asked for the time that you are all discussing; but my problem is that I signed up prior to ever swimming.  I am going to contact the race organizers to adjust but I was wondering what is the typical mechanical nature of these indoor swims.
2011-03-14 1:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
Just a word of warning:  make sure you know how they are doing the swim.  I signed up for a pool swim sprint, assuming it would by a snake swim, and instead they did it in heats, 2 people per lane on a time-trial type start.  They let the slowest people go first to minimize the time the course was open.  I had no idea how this was going to work, so I put in a realistic time.  I am not fast, but not pathetic.  Come to find out, all the fast people knew what was going on, so they put ridiculously slow times so they could get in the pool first.  They finished the course before I even got in the pool.  The race "started" at like 8am, and I got in the pool at 9:30.  I was one of the last 7 people in the pool, and because I am not truly fast, I was one of the last people out on the course.  It kinda sucked.  The course was wide-open around me though!
2011-03-14 5:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri
In a tri I did last year they made you give a result from a previous tri or they had days that you could go and get a time for the race.  Those without a verified time started last.  This was the best run pool swim I've been in.  I know that this is usually not possible so why not have a penalty system.  If you swim at a certain rate (Say 10%) slower than you put down you may possibly get a two minute penalty (Or something like that).  For example someone who puts down 2 minutes/100 yards can actually take up to 2:12 without getting penalized (6:36 in a 300 yard swim).  But at least the next person probably won't catch up to them in the first 100 yards.  Then people might try a little harder to use a reasonable time.  I know this also leads to problems like "But the person in front of me held me up" and so might not be enforceable.   However this seems much more worthy of a penalty than not having your race number showing at the finish line.
2011-03-14 9:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri

Northern ivy - 2011-03-14 2:30 PM This might be a really stupid question.  But my first ever tri is in the first part of april and it is one of these pool swims.  How do they actually work?  They asked for the time that you are all discussing; but my problem is that I signed up prior to ever swimming.  I am going to contact the race organizers to adjust but I was wondering what is the typical mechanical nature of these indoor swims.

 

They vary, The one I did was a 'snake swim'. Up one side of the lane, back down the other side, cross under lane divider, repeat. Swimmers left at 10 second intervals IIRC. You started in the water and had to lift yourself out at the end (not at the ladder), the water level was on the low side and you couldn't touch bottom where you got out. So climbing out was an extra bit of challenge for some people. They also had all the 'beginners' go at the end at 15 second intervals.

My first pool swim I was like 30 seconds faster than what I put down but I was brand new to swimming when I signed up. Standing around the pool watching the faster swimmers it was obvious many people lied about their times, some people where passed by 2, 3 or more people. I think it is totally wrong that these people can mess up other peoples race with no penalty, it is very difficult to pass someone in the pool.

I was going to say you should be DQed if you are x amount slower than the time you put in but I like the previous posters idea of a time penalty. Edit - You could probably work something out to give more leeway if the previous swimmer was slow.

This year I am going to time myself when I train and use that time (IE as honest as possible) and I will not feel one bit of regret if I have to swim over the (liar) person in front of me.



Edited by Anachronism 2011-03-14 9:43 PM
2011-03-15 1:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Estimating swim time for pool swim tri

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Edited by tri808 2011-03-15 1:32 AM


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