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2011-03-17 10:05 PM
in reply to: #3401821

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)

First talk to your child about what you would like him or her to be reading recommend some books you liked at that age.  Net ask the school Librarian principal and Superintendent to explain what educational value these books had and how they fit the school curriculum?



2011-03-18 6:39 AM
in reply to: #3401821

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)

Are you right to be angry?  Your call, but I didn't get "angry" when faced with very similar situations as my kids were growing up. 

You never mention the grade range of the school.  K-5?  K-8?  If you insist that there be nothing inappropriate for the youngest kindergartner, what will the 8th graders read?  (And it IS frustrating and I did get angry when my advanced readers were stymied by a very thin selection of advanced books.

There's been talk in the thread about databases, etc.  Here's the way to structure the library to accommodate everyone's concerns: 

The school sends home the list of ALL books in the library. 
You (the parent) check Y/N for every book on the list and return the list to the library.
The library puts it into their database. 
Your child cannot check out a book you haven't approved. 
Your child's classmate can check out that same book because the classmate's parents chose differently. 
You could edit your list at any time and the library will update the database within 2 school days. 

Now to deal with your child taking a book off the shelf to read without checking it out, Redesign the library so each book is locked into it's own safety-deposit-box with a biometric scanner.  Your child puts a thumb on the scanner, opens the door, and retrieves the prize.  To avoid sharing, the reading area is separated from the bookshelves and nobody else can check out a book until a released book has moved out of the bookshelf area.  

What will you do in 6 months or a year, when your child decides he does want to read these books?  Like it or not, he will hold different views than you and his mother and he will, at some point, assert that independence.  We've had similar issues with scouts at camp.  As a leader, I tell the scouts and their parents to have a discussion about shooting guns.  Whatever the family decides, it's the scout's responsibility (NOT mine) to honor that decision.  I am not going to spend my week chained to the range to make sure their son abides by their wishes. 

2011-03-18 8:04 AM
in reply to: #3402567

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)
Aarondb4 - 2011-03-17 4:40 PM
lisac957 - 2011-03-17 2:34 PM
Aarondb4 - 2011-03-17 3:31 PM

 

You could make it like Netflix. The parent creates and organizes the "queue" the child gets to check out from said queue. The only problem left would be how to communicate the queue's contents to the child so they pick out a book that they will be able to check out. I suppose that could be left to the parent.

 

I still think that if the book wasn't there in the first place this wouldn't be a problem. "Scary Stories" doesn't seem to hold much educational value to me, and it is obviously controversial as noted earlier. I don't have kids but I don't like my tax payer dollars going to books that are not educational. Now who decides what is "educational" is of course a whole 'nother thread. But I am reasonably sure "Scary Stories" wouldn't make the cut.

Yes I read the arguments about "some kids won't read educational books" well then there is a really spiffy thing called a public library. The parent of the child who will only read fiction with gory images can feel free to take their kid to the public library and check them out whatever book they want.

I would be much more comfortable knowing the school library only contained strictly educational books. Perhaps the kids won't like it as much, but perhaps we should expect a little more out of the kids rather than taking everyone down to the lowest denominator of the child who will only read fiction.

So, the child would have absolutely no creative choice in what books they wanted to read? Sad.
And also, there would be nothing in the school library but textbooks and encyclopedias? Sadder.

Talk about stifling a child and steering them away from reading/learning.

 

Never said the parent had to lock their child in the closet while they decide on what goes in the queue. Heck if it were my kid I would let them create their own queue then I would approve it.

Apparently you missed my point about the definition of "educational book" as well, I never limited it to encyclopedias. It just didn't include the particular book in question.

Sorry but nothing I said would "steer a child away from learning". What it does is to keep the responsibility where it belongs, with the parent. It would give the parent the tools to control the situation when need be, rather than the school controlling the situation.

Last time i checked reading itself is an important skill in and of itself that we learn as part of our education system.  We spend an awful lot of time focused on reading to increase our comprehension and learning skills - it's about more than the contents of the books in the library ....

 

2011-03-18 9:36 AM
in reply to: #3402983

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)
CBarnes - 2011-03-17 11:05 PM

First talk to your child about what you would like him or her to be reading recommend some books you liked at that age.  Net ask the school Librarian principal and Superintendent to explain what educational value these books had and how they fit the school curriculum?

I wholeheartedly agree with your 1st sentence.  You lost me after that.  Does every book in a school library have to have "educational value"?  How would you define educational value?  What if my definitiion is different?  Does Harry Potter have educational value?  How about Nancy Drew (thanks lisac)? Hardy Boys? Goosebumps?  Choose-your-own-adventures? (my personal favorite).  My view of the school library is that its a place that has an age-appropriate reference section, but also that provides entertaining material to help foster a love and appreciation of reading from a young age.  

I read a lot as a child, and I know that very little of what I read would be termed as "educational".  But it helped me develop a life-long love for reading and writing.  What more would you expect from an elementary school reading program?  Reading how to rebuild a fuel pump? 

2011-03-18 11:07 AM
in reply to: #3403365

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)
madcap95 - 2011-03-18 9:36 AM
CBarnes - 2011-03-17 11:05 PM

First talk to your child about what you would like him or her to be reading recommend some books you liked at that age.  Net ask the school Librarian principal and Superintendent to explain what educational value these books had and how they fit the school curriculum?

I wholeheartedly agree with your 1st sentence.  You lost me after that.  Does every book in a school library have to have "educational value"?  How would you define educational value?  What if my definitiion is different?  Does Harry Potter have educational value?  How about Nancy Drew (thanks lisac)? Hardy Boys? Goosebumps?  Choose-your-own-adventures? (my personal favorite).  My view of the school library is that its a place that has an age-appropriate reference section, but also that provides entertaining material to help foster a love and appreciation of reading from a young age.  

I read a lot as a child, and I know that very little of what I read would be termed as "educational".  But it helped me develop a life-long love for reading and writing.  What more would you expect from an elementary school reading program?  Reading how to rebuild a fuel pump

That is a great read, but I really prefer Changing Break Pads 101

2011-03-18 11:46 AM
in reply to: #3401847

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)
dewybuck - 2011-03-17 10:56 AM

not quite into burning books....

So you think the educators of my child, the guardians of my child through times that are very influential in his life, should not be held accountable for the material he is allowed to select......so, no restrictions on web sites he browses from the school IT room?    I'm sorry, I think the school have the responsibility to guide a child away from inappropriate material.  and in my mind this isn't close to appropriate.

Teachers have little to no influence over what books are in the school library.  No, teachers should not be held responsible.  Ask the administrators.  They won't know.  Ask the librarian.



2011-03-18 11:59 AM
in reply to: #3401821

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)
Since we live in the 60's it would be impossible to use technology to assist parents in screening anything their children have access to. I mean what's next, putting someone on the moon?
2011-03-18 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)
kns57 - 2011-03-17 3:47 PM

So, a solution similar to this would be to have the school library catalog available online to the parents and allow the parents to have access to their students card and be able to see what has been checked out.  That way, if he checks out the book, but keeps it in his desk because he knows his parent would not approve, you would know because you are online everyday checking up on him.  Most library systems are set up to erase from the account the book once it is checked in.  The library is not Big Brother.  The library is a vessel in which to share knowledge among the masses and to allow people to read for recreational use along with educational.



I was going to suggest this as well. It doesn't seem like, with all of the technology available, it would be terribly difficult for an email to be automatically generated to the parents "Your child, Billy, checked out the following books today" and then it's on the parents to look up the book to determine if they think it is appropriate or not. Yes, maybe the child will look at it before they get home but he could also look at it in the library without checking it out and you would never know.
2011-03-18 1:22 PM
in reply to: #3401821

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)
Any decent library software can generate a list of what any patron has checked out, (often as a reciept) perhaps if the school sent that sort of list home that would be a satisfactory solution?

The problem with providing the list on-line is that many of the systems in elementary school libraries are stand-alone systems that do not provide/require a web interface. That may be changing as broadband is more prevalent in schools, but it certainly is not 100% yet.
2011-03-18 2:39 PM
in reply to: #3401821

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)

I have just received a call from the principal, to sum up the discussion:

As a dad, he agrees 100% that the books are not appropriate for a 7 year old.

As my sons principle, he thinks my son has the comprehension to understand the content, but maybe not the capacity a 9 year old has to differentiate fiction from reality.

He discussed the books with the librarian who said if anyone from K-2nd grade had tried to take those books she would council them to more appropriate reading material, regardless of ability.

I have the ability to go in to the school and place filters on what I deem appropriate, as my sons card and books are scanned, if any tags hit the filter the librarian will then council my son to chose a more appropriate book, we discussed this last one in detail as it will need to be managed carefully to ensure the restrictions on content that could possibly be in place do not restrict his ability to chose books at the correct reading level etc.  We are going to work together to look at this, whether to implement that, or whether there is another way. 

A point worth noting.....although he feels they're "too gruesome" for his 3rd grade child, he has had no complaints from any other parents on these books, maybe because the students that are allowed to take them are in the right age group for 3rd grade...I don't know, but it seems accepted that for 3rd grade these books are fine.....

 

ETA: He also spoke to other Elementary schools in the region, most carry these books and allow 3rd grade up to read them.



Edited by dewybuck 2011-03-18 2:41 PM
2011-03-18 2:56 PM
in reply to: #3401821

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Subject: RE: Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid)
All of that is exactly what I am hoping for from my child's school.  And I would not be angry if something slipped through.


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