Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Question for teen parents Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2011-04-07 3:04 PM
in reply to: #3434792

User image

Expert
1456
10001001001001002525
Central New Jersey
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
LOVE that mother - if only more parents well PARENTED their kids vs expecting the schools to do that (not directed at anyone here - anyone who has posted obviously is trying to do the right thing, but way too many out "there" are not!)


2011-04-07 3:12 PM
in reply to: #3434769

Extreme Veteran
861
5001001001002525
Northbridge, Massachusetts
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
Tri Take Me Away - 2011-04-07 12:42 PM

This is the first time I am responding to a thread without reading the other responses first. I think if I read what others have said, it will change my answer.

My 15 year old has been like this since he left private school after 5th grade. He gets advanced grades in all of his standardized tests and is in honors classes. Reads all the time at home, is very bright and values his intellect and discussing ideas. His grades suck. Just got his last report card and got one D, a couple of Bs and and one A (in a gimme class like Health or something). It's all because he doesn't do all of his homework and his teachers know that his work ethic sucks. I used to care a lot more than I do now. We used to fight about it a LOT and I grounded him. But at the same time, I know that I can't force him to care about his grades. Now that he is in high school he does seem to care more, as he can see that his future might be affected by the grades he is getting. And he enjoys the high school setting more than middle school.

When he was in private school, they expected more from him. There was an environment of mutual respect between students and teachers that made the kids want to please the teachers. That doesn't exist in the public schools he has attended since middle school. They teach to the lowest common denominator, and my child began to do only the bare minimum. No, I don't like that he has become a slacker, but I do believe that when he actually feels like he is engaged and what he does matters to someone, he will find his way.

I guess in the end, I don't care much what his grades are. I care that he finds a passion in life, that he learns a good work ethic, and that he learns how to earn money, what to do with that money, and how to start a business or be a good employee. Ultimately, I think good grades are not at all a good indication of success after school, and books like "The Millionaire Next Door" seem to validate that. What you do to encourage good grades might not matter as much as what you do to encourage effort and with ethic in the things your child is passionate about.

Growing up, I had the same experience.  Left private school after third grade and never felt enough of a challenge until high school.  While I never went below a B, my motivation was severely lacking in the homework area.  Of course, the attitude actually started in Kindergarten.  My mom was told I didn't know my ABC's near the end of the year.  She knew that wasn't true so she told me to recite the ABC's, which I did to their amazement.  When asked why I didn't say them before, my response was "I told them once.  If they don't know them by now, I can't help them!"

Even in high school, if I got the concept, participated in class and was getting 100% on the exams, then I felt like homework was a waste.  I even bet my Pre-Calc teacher that if I aced his test, then he would give me the A and ignore the missing homework.  I got the A.

On the flip side, I question why homework can drive down a score so much or raise the score that high.  A co-worker's daughter graduated high school with a 3.7 GPA, but doesn't test well, so she made sure to do all the homework when she could look up the answer.  Fast forward two years and she has flunked out of the state university and barely scraping by at the JC in the remedial classes.  She is struggling without homework being the bulk of her score.

 

 

2011-04-07 3:16 PM
in reply to: #3434278

User image

Master
1440
100010010010010025
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 12:07 PM

1stTimeTri - 2011-04-07 10:44 AM I'm just going to use the guilt trip and tell them that if their grades don't stay up, then the privileges will be taken away.  I hope to not use bribery.

I've heard this sentiment before and am wondering why, or what is inherently wrong with this tactic from your point of view?

As a little one potty training, my mom said M&Ms motivated me, and toys motivated my sister. She hung a basket of either M&Ms or stuffed toys in the bathroom and every time we would potty on our own, we could have one. I think a lot of parents of little ones do this...

I know I am not a parent, but it seems like the same concept, no?

 

There are two issues i have with the "bribery method" First off to carrry over to college and career a person needs to be intrinsically motivated. and while money or priledges does provide extrinsic motivation what will carry you through when times are tough?

Second as mrbrad pointed out it cost him $400. This is a serious piece of change to be giving a high school student.

Years ago when a friend of mines daughter entered high school his wife asked what reward/ money the child would get for getting good grades. He looked at her in utter amazement and said, if she doesn't get "A's" she will do extra chores etc...

She never brought home a grade less than a "B"

The trick is you need to find out what the right consequence will be.

2011-04-07 3:31 PM
in reply to: #3434825

User image

Champion
4835
2000200050010010010025
Eat Cheese or Die
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
SGriepsma - 2011-04-07 3:12 PM

On the flip side, I question why homework can drive down a score so much or raise the score that high.  A co-worker's daughter graduated high school with a 3.7 GPA, but doesn't test well, so she made sure to do all the homework when she could look up the answer.  Fast forward two years and she has flunked out of the state university and barely scraping by at the JC in the remedial classes.  She is struggling without homework being the bulk of her score.

 

 



On the flip side of your flip side...

How often in life are we required to do work without having access to reference material? Even though I am very good at test taking, I think tests are the less realistic scenario.

I thought it was crazy that my SAT scores got me into college despite my poor grades. My thinking was that it was a clear indication of my laziness. If I was so smart the only reason to have such poor grades was lack of motivation. Though I am glad that I was given the chance to come around. I was a D/A student in high school (A's in classes I liked D's in classes I didn't like). In college I was an A with the occasional B student. The B's were always hard earned B's, not from a lack of trying.

However, I do agree with your sentiments that if you can show you know the material, homework is a waste of time.

Even after going on ADD meds and not having to struggle through homework, I still thought it was a waste, if I could do well on tests, participate with knowledge in class and show that I understood, why did I have to reprove it on homework.

In my ideal classroom, if kids could prove they knew the material without doing homework, I'd let them skip the homework. If kids were poor test takers, but other work showed that they knew the material, I'd let their other work be the bulk of the grade. It's all about doing what is right for each kid and giving each kid what they need to succeed.
2011-04-07 4:31 PM
in reply to: #3433568

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

Special privileges are revoked, i.e. video games, t.v. watching, going out to see a friend or when a friend wants to come over, etc.  It needs to be done, and be consistent.

Is it possible the child is "acting out" and showing a way of control or regret, or testing the "boundaries", or just showing no respect?

A sitdown discussion with him needs to be done, and I do not mean a dictatorship talk, or "talking down" talk, or yelling discussion.

2011-04-07 6:47 PM
in reply to: #3433695

User image

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

Meerkat Surprise - 2011-04-07 6:30 AM
Hugh in TX - 2011-04-06 11:16 PMThe only option I can think of is escorting him to each class and forcibly making him turn in homework.  That would be fine except I have to work and I don't think a parent following their kid around would go over so well at school.


As a high school teacher, I can tell you that this would go over just fine. I encourage it.

A lot of other people are going to tell you he's bored, he isn't challenged enough, etc. Those are excuses. Whether he's challenged enough or not, the reality is that he's lazy. High school is a time when you learn to accept the realities of the world, and that often means doing things that don't want to do. Even if they don't challenge you. Take his cell phone away. Take his computer away. Take his TV away. He can earn them back by turning in his work. Take some personal days from work and go to school with him. After a day or two of having to walk around with his parents, he'll do anything to get rid of you. Make sure he knows that you're going to be very affectionate while you're there, particularly in front of girls. The threat may be enough to affect a change without you having to actually go there.

 

Meerkat!  Awesome post!  I'd also add to the OP, don't let the situation drive you nuts.  Calmly explain what's going to happen, and be firm with expectations and consequences.

 



2011-04-07 6:48 PM
in reply to: #3433568

User image

Veteran
928
50010010010010025
Columbus, Ohio
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
As a high schooler (and college) I was less than a stellar student. I was lazy and immature. It didn't help that I had 4 siblings that all did very well at school. It got to the point in high school that I had to bring a note home each Friday from my teachers regarding my progress that week. A bad report meant I was staying in for the weekend. It worked from the standpoint that I tried hard enough to get a good report, which is better than flunking and staying in for the weekend.

In college I was politely asked to leave THE Ohio State University because of poor grades. Again I was lazy. I worked my way back in but still struggled. It wasn't until my wife of 27 years told me one day, no diploma no marriage. That set me on the straight and narrow and I have my diploma framed and in my office and the greatest wife around.

I look back on my high school and college career with some regrets, but I am also able to speak from experience when I advise my daughters who both do very well at school (they got their mom's genes).



Edited by jacasa 2011-04-07 6:50 PM
2011-04-08 8:24 AM
in reply to: #3433568

User image

Expert
1215
1000100100
Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

Perhaps some of my frustration with my son has to do with what I learned the hard way.

I did well enough on high school that I got a full ride scholarship to college.  My sophomore year in college I was asked to sit out.  I came back with a vengeance but no scholarship.

When I graduated college, I noticed those few extra percentage points in grade average translated to a $5-10k difference in slaries offered.

My son's passion is art, specifically graphic novels and video game art.  He has found the leaser's in those industries and they love his work.  But if he dosn't get decent grades, can he go to a decent art school?

Plus I am frsutrated with his work ethic and not taking responsibility.  I see the latter in many of his peers and it terrifies me.

His cell phone has been gone for awhile.  He says grounding him does nto work as he NEEDS to be on the computer.  It amazes me that he is grounded from seeign his girlfriend, the computer, etc. adn he still won't get his #$%% together.

I may check in with the school and see what I have to do to follow him.  As for beign overly affectionate at school like someone suggested, it may creep out his classmates since I am his dad.

2011-04-08 8:49 AM
in reply to: #3435791

User image

Champion
4835
2000200050010010010025
Eat Cheese or Die
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
Hugh in TX - 2011-04-08 8:24 AM

When I graduated college, I noticed those few extra percentage points in grade average translated to a $5-10k difference in slaries offered.


I have never been asked for college transcripts or about grades. So I don't know how it would help get a better salary. I think it depends on the field though.
2011-04-08 8:55 AM
in reply to: #3435845

User image

Champion
14571
50005000200020005002525
the alamo city, Texas
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

graceful_dave - 2011-04-08 9:49 AM
Hugh in TX - 2011-04-08 8:24 AM When I graduated college, I noticed those few extra percentage points in grade average translated to a $5-10k difference in slaries offered.
I have never been asked for college transcripts or about grades. So I don't know how it would help get a better salary. I think it depends on the field though.

 

My GPA is on my resume, and it most certainly made a difference in my salary offer for my first job after college (compared to the guy that started the same day as me, with the same degree, and no GPA on his resume).

2011-04-08 9:18 AM
in reply to: #3435857

User image

Champion
4835
2000200050010010010025
Eat Cheese or Die
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
meherczeg - 2011-04-08 8:55 AM

graceful_dave - 2011-04-08 9:49 AM
Hugh in TX - 2011-04-08 8:24 AM When I graduated college, I noticed those few extra percentage points in grade average translated to a $5-10k difference in slaries offered.
I have never been asked for college transcripts or about grades. So I don't know how it would help get a better salary. I think it depends on the field though.

 

My GPA is on my resume, and it most certainly made a difference in my salary offer for my first job after college (compared to the guy that started the same day as me, with the same degree, and no GPA on his resume).



Like I said, I think it's related to field. I can see it having an impact in engineering or some other technical field.

Do you really think someone looking to hire an artist is going to care more about their grades then their portfolio?




2011-04-08 9:41 AM
in reply to: #3434278

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 11:07 AM

1stTimeTri - 2011-04-07 10:44 AM I'm just going to use the guilt trip and tell them that if their grades don't stay up, then the privileges will be taken away.  I hope to not use bribery.

I've heard this sentiment before and am wondering why, or what is inherently wrong with this tactic from your point of view?

As a little one potty training, my mom said M&Ms motivated me, and toys motivated my sister. She hung a basket of either M&Ms or stuffed toys in the bathroom and every time we would potty on our own, we could have one. I think a lot of parents of little ones do this...

I know I am not a parent, but it seems like the same concept, no?

Re-reading and re-thinking what I typed at that time, and responding to your question, LEEEEE SAAAAAAH, I believe I associated the term "bribery" with simply "money" for some reason, and not other methods/means.  I used the term "I hope", which means to me that "I really hate to simply just give money for each good grade they get, but, instead, hope they understand that this is all about "learning" and understanding the material, instead of forgetting the material, not caring and just get paid".

Now, this does conflict and contradict with what I posted in a different post that Lady Swole caught me on.  I, specifically, do not pay money to the boys for good grades.  My wife may have done that in the past, but as of the last several quarters or semesters, etc., I haven't seen or heard her do that.



Edited by 1stTimeTri 2011-04-08 9:41 AM
2011-04-08 11:42 AM
in reply to: #3435910

User image

Expert
839
50010010010025
Central Mass
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
graceful_dave - 2011-04-08 7:18 AM
meherczeg - 2011-04-08 8:55 AM

graceful_dave - 2011-04-08 9:49 AM
Hugh in TX - 2011-04-08 8:24 AM When I graduated college, I noticed those few extra percentage points in grade average translated to a $5-10k difference in slaries offered.
I have never been asked for college transcripts or about grades. So I don't know how it would help get a better salary. I think it depends on the field though.

 

My GPA is on my resume, and it most certainly made a difference in my salary offer for my first job after college (compared to the guy that started the same day as me, with the same degree, and no GPA on his resume).

Like I said, I think it's related to field. I can see it having an impact in engineering or some other technical field. Do you really think someone looking to hire an artist is going to care more about their grades then their portfolio?

 

In my semi-technical, semi-art field, GPA doesn't mean a damn thing.  You are paid crap out of college no matter what.  Where you got the degree matter a whole lot more.  And your portfolio matters a lot too.

2011-04-08 12:02 PM
in reply to: #3433568

User image

Expert
1207
1000100100
Parker, Co
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
Here's an off the wall idea for you...read the book " 5 languages of love for Kids" or something to that effect..have your son read it and take the test....this should identify what his primary and secondary "languages" are..meaning what he really wants from you.....then you can "give" those to him on a more regular basis in response for good grades...

Example - if its quality time..then tell him you will take him to a game, movie, camping ..whatever..but it will be time spent with him...offer them if he raises his grade or meets a grade you set...

Different approach....haven't tried it so dont know if it would work but good luck!
2011-04-08 12:13 PM
in reply to: #3435845

User image

Expert
1215
1000100100
Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

graceful dave, when I was graduating from college, employers asked for transcripts.

After you get the first job, grades do not matter anymore.  IMHO, early in life, good grades open more doors.

2011-04-08 12:22 PM
in reply to: #3436247

User image

Expert
1215
1000100100
Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

Scorpio, did you need good grades to get into preferred art schools?  This is a sincere question.

I am pretty confident he can produce a great portfolio.  His art teacher has recommended him for honors art.  Guys like Tim Shafer and Doug TenNapel (my son's hero) have also given him positive feedback on his art and posted links on their website to my son's.



2011-04-08 1:17 PM
in reply to: #3436338

User image

Champion
10018
50005000
, Minnesota
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
I think this is a great path to go down - look at the requirements for what he wants to do in the future and make it very clear what he needed to do to achieve that.  This worked for Naomi on 90210, anyway  

My initial thought when I read your thread, and still remains, is whether he has an issue that makes doing the homework difficult.  I tested well and didn't have to study (so I learned too few study habits), but I did the homework because it was very easy to me.  Writing essays, doing math problems, etc, should be a breeze for a smart kid.  I often did my homework during class, all of the way through my master's degree, just to finish it.   I also lived in fear of disappointing my mother, another important element of course...  But he could be covering up another problem (reading comprehension, time management, something more serious)?

Have you considered taking him to something like Sylvan Learning Center?  They can assess learning needs and also help with homework follow through, study habits, etc.   It's not just for kids with learning disabilities, per se.

Edited by BikerGrrrl 2011-04-08 1:18 PM
2011-04-08 3:25 PM
in reply to: #3433802

User image

Expert
1203
1000100100
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

wwlani - 2011-04-07 7:32 AM Refusing to do vs turning in is 2 very different problems. My son has Aspergers - like yours VERY smart - standardized tests off the charts. Does the homework but forgets to turn it in if not reminded. He may be bored, but he also needs to understand that there are consequences. I concur with the HS teacher - follow him one day. I would - utter humiliation - he will NOT want it to happen - had a friend of mine whose teenager was always missing the bus. Went out and bought the UGLIEST robe she could find. Slippers, curlers and hair net. Son didn't get up in time. She got ready. Bus pulled down the street - she ran out waving for the bus to stop - *"Jimmy will be right out - please wait". he NEVER EVER missed the bus again. What has the school done if anything to help you? We have a plan in place for my son that he can email the homework if he forgets to turn it in at school but it has to be by 4 pm (just after he gets home and I can check).

Haha, that is awesome.

On board with the Teacher.  My son switched to a traditional program in 6th grade and got a rude awakening when the Teachers expectations and student accountability where inforced.  He is a hard working 9th grader now and understands what is expected of him.

2011-04-08 4:01 PM
in reply to: #3436338

User image

Expert
839
50010010010025
Central Mass
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
Hugh in TX - 2011-04-08 10:22 AM

Scorpio, did you need good grades to get into preferred art schools?  This is a sincere question.

I am pretty confident he can produce a great portfolio.  His art teacher has recommended him for honors art.  Guys like Tim Shafer and Doug TenNapel (my son's hero) have also given him positive feedback on his art and posted links on their website to my son's.

It depends .  I'm an architect, so a combination of an artist and an engineer, and went to what today is the #1 architecture school in the country.  GPA was the #1 thing they looked at for admission.  A portfolio was recommended, but was 4th or 5th they looked at.

Right now, my wife wants to finish up her schooling by getting a BFA at a top 10 art program at a  public school (research uni per Carnegie classification, not art).  To get into the college, GPA is #1 followed by test scores, but to get into the art program, portfolio is #1 followed by GPA and scores. 

Now straight up private art schools might be different, I'm not too familiar with private schools in general.  Yeh, I kinda avoided the question... 

If you take a look at MassArt's "admissions standards" they require a 2.3, but anything below a 3.0 needs some killer test scores before they even look at the portfolio.  EDIT: MassArt is UMass's art school, a very rare public specialized art school.



Edited by scorpio516 2011-04-08 4:02 PM
2011-04-08 6:00 PM
in reply to: #3436313

User image

Champion
4835
2000200050010010010025
Eat Cheese or Die
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
Hugh in TX - 2011-04-08 12:13 PM

graceful dave, when I was graduating from college, employers asked for transcripts.

After you get the first job, grades do not matter anymore.  IMHO, early in life, good grades open more doors.



When I graduated, no employers asked. I've never been asked by a potential employer. Until last year when I applied for a job two levels above what I was qualified for, I've never not been offered a job I've applied for. Certainly, I had to provide high school grades to get into college, but my stellar test scores made up for my lackluster grades.

Like I said, I really think it depends on where you want to go and what you want to do. I do think it's a great idea to find out what the requirements are for what he wants to do and work to those. If that includes good grades, then so be it.
2011-04-08 8:31 PM
in reply to: #3433568

User image

Member
208
100100
Longview, Texas
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

I was a average student, didn't like to do homeworks and remember me finishing or copying from some friend his homework just before the school started. inside the classroom, I would pay more attention than anyone else and it was enough for me to score C's and B's to pass. Got accepted by both colleges that I applied for. My mom never had to go spend a day at school with me, but she did go to all parent/teacher meeting and new all teachers and school staff by first name.

I'm sorry to say that this isn't because the school didn't challenged me or because my mom was a bad mom, it was because I was lazy, and smart so I know that if I only paid attention I could get the grades to pass and did just that.



2011-04-14 2:07 AM
in reply to: #3433568

User image

Regular
125
10025
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents

Disclaimer: I haven't read through all the posts here, so sorry if I repeat something already said, but after reading the first post I wanted to add something, since I had similar academic troubles in the past.

Up until college I didn't have to work much to pull A's in my classes and I scored well in the SAT's, so I was pretty complacent and developed some bad study habits. I didn't worry much about the homework since I knew I could cram the night before and ace my tests. This came to a screeching halt when I got to college and began my engineering and honors classes. The transition was tough, but what made the big difference for me was my motivation for going to school. Once I realized how important my studies were to my goals I began to put in the hard work. 

I guess this depends on how old your son is, but if he's a smart kid you should be able to have a serious conversation with him about his future. He needs to find a reason for doing his school work, since if he wants to go to college he's going to need his own motivation and not rely on someone else to push him. I wish I had learned this in high school.

Also, there could be a specific reason why he doesn't want to turn in homework. I've known a few people who seriously have a perfectionism complex. If they don't feel like it's perfect, they don't want to turn it in and be judged on it. Or sometimes people who are having problems with depression have homework issues. Not saying either is the case here, just some things I've observed.

On that note, I am now getting off of BT and finishing my physics homework!

2011-04-14 10:53 AM
in reply to: #3434157

User image

Master
2356
20001001001002525
Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Question for teen parents
Chaderbox - 2011-04-07 9:05 AM

 I needed major help.  The second letter said I'd scored in the 99th percentile in my standardized testing, and that I was one of the most gifted kids in the district, and that they wanted to pay for me to take the SAT's as part of a study John's Hopkins was doing. 

I never saw the point of doing homework to practice or reinforce what I was taught.  If I payed attention in class, I learned the info, and the rest was wasting my time.  Honestly, while I did start turning in some work, I still feel that way.  Where it got to be a problem was in college, because I'd never needed to learn how to study, or take notes, or manage my time in regards to studying, so I had a difficult time when I really needed to know how to do that stuff.  So now, looking back, I see the point of HS and Middle School homework not so much as learning how to do the "work" but learning how to learn.  That's a tough lesson to learn until the teachers quit caring if you learn or not, which I really think isn't, nor should it be the case until you're in college.

I could have written that.  Exact same scenario, it wasn't Hopkins paying the bill, it was someone else.  I took the SAT and ACT several times before I "officially" took it.  I literally flunked out of college though.  

graceful_dave - 2011-04-07 11:19 AM I was/am bright, very good at tests. Didn't do homework. Homework was torture for me. I couldn't focus and it would take me hours to finish. My parents tried everything short of following me around at school, though I doubt that would have worked.  I went on ADD meds my senior year, could focus and do my homework quickly. For the routine stuff, what I didn't finish at lunch usually took less then a half hour at home. I'm not saying your kid has ADD, just that finding the root cause is critical.

There is a sub-type to typical ADHD, referred to as "inattentive type".  My 11 yo daughter was just diagnosed with it.  Seeing her struggles, remembering my own, and framing it up with the folks at Univ of Mich, it makes so much sense now.  There appears to be hereditary links too.

Do a quick online survey and see if makes any sense.  



Edited by matt3liv 2011-04-14 10:59 AM
New Thread
Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Question for teen parents Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2