General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think? Rss Feed  
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2011-05-23 4:09 PM

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Subject: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
Last year I finally bit the bullet and bought a set of Look clipless pedals and bike shoes. I was quite a chicken, but fought past my fears and had no problems picking up the rhythm of clipping and unclipping out of the pedals. However, over the past 5 months I have been having serious second thoughts about continuing to use these wonderful little devices. We have had dozens of bike vs. car accidents and at least 6 of them have been fatal since Jan. (One poor woman was rammed completely over a bridge and drown in the water with her bike still clipped to her feet.)

I have since come up with every excuse to not ride my bike (I'm currently not training for anything). But, I've grown to realize that I just flat out don't feel safe riding in clipless pedals anymore. The whole concept of "judging" distance to your stopping point to unclip flies completely out the window when you're having to constantly have to slam your breaks on for some a**hole who considers you a target. Twice, I've had some pretty close calls of having to frantically try to wrench my foot free and slam on my breaks as some dimwit drifts in front of me while I'm biking. Honestly, I just don't want deal with that kind of threat anymore. However, I keep hearing the unending lecture about how I'll "never survive the run" in a half or whole IM if I don't use clipless. I'm considering getting the combo clipless pedal with the regular pedal on top, but have been warned about how heavy they are.

So, if I get rid of my clipless entirely, what are the odds of finishing a half or whole IM with regular pedals? Anyone out there ever do a half or whole without foot cages or clipless pedals? Thoughts? Comments?


2011-05-23 4:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
Sounds like you need to find a safer place to ride.  Changing your pedals won't keep you alive, it sounds like.
2011-05-23 4:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
Clipless pedals more than likely had nothing to do with the tragedies you mentioned. I would and do take a different approach. I never ride in town. I put the bike on the car, drive 15 min to a very lightly traveled section of frontage road next to the interstate. The exits are 3 to 10 miles apart and traffic is very minimal. If you have the option get out of town then ride the bike. This will not make you 100% safe but you no longer have to worry about cars turning in front of you or red lights. Good luck.
2011-05-23 4:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
I am new to clipless pedals, and kind of share your concerns.  For me it is not traffic, but rather just the inability to free myself from the bike at will.  Can you just use regular pedals when you are in town, and switch to clipless when you race or ride outside of town?
2011-05-23 4:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
rwolf - 2011-05-23 5:34 PM

I am new to clipless pedals, and kind of share your concerns.  For me it is not traffic, but rather just the inability to free myself from the bike at will.  Can you just use regular pedals when you are in town, and switch to clipless when you race or ride outside of town?



I was thinking about this. What are you're thoughts on the combo flat pedals/clipless pedals? Too heavy? Not worth it?

Edited by cafenervosa 2011-05-23 4:41 PM
2011-05-23 4:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

Honestly, it sounds like it's more an issue of riding in traffic than anything else, and I agree it can be nerve wracking.  And the more nervous you are, the less control you will have. 

Perhaps consider riding a trainer during the week and driving somewhere more bike friendly for long weekend rides.  That's how I trained for my last HIM

Good luck



2011-05-23 4:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

We take a risk anytime we get out and ride on the road.  Clipless is something that needs to be practiced, but once learned, should not be a saftey concern. 

ETA: I think you could also make the arguement that riding on platforms could be even more dangerous.  The threat of your foot slipping off the pedal is more likely to cause a crash than you not being able to unclip while braking hard.

 



Edited by tri808 2011-05-23 4:53 PM
2011-05-23 5:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

Shimano PDM324 Single Sided SPD

They weigh a bit over a pound. I've been using them on my mountain bike for a while and I think they are great. That much weight is nothing when you are concerned about safety. You can always switch to your lightweight pedals for race days.

2011-05-23 5:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
rwolf - 2011-05-23 4:34 PM

I am new to clipless pedals, and kind of share your concerns.  For me it is not traffic, but rather just the inability to free myself from the bike at will.  Can you just use regular pedals when you are in town, and switch to clipless when you race or ride outside of town?



Use the pedals enough and you can do it at will. Even when you're 8 feet off the ground and realize you need to eject from your mountain bike because things are not going to end well.
2011-05-23 5:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

lifejustice - 2011-05-23 4:18 PM Sounds like you need to find a safer place to ride.  Changing your pedals won't keep you alive, it sounds like.

^^I was thinking the same thing

Seriously though, I think it's more getting used to the pedals to the point where your as comfortable with them as regular pedals.  For example I just got my new Tri bike a few weeks ago with clipless pedals and I went on a long ride and had to stop at an intersection.  there was a car coming, but i had plenty of time to get across, but after I started I tried clipping my second foot in and i missed and my foot slipped off, then it slipped off again and I started pushing on the ground to get across the street and it was a little scary.
Now, was it the pedals fault?  not at all, it was my fault for not being used to/comfortable with the clipless pedals.  I learned real quick that I can push and pull on my already clipped in pedal and get across the street just fine with one leg if i can't get the second one clipped in.



Edited by tuwood 2011-05-23 5:37 PM
2011-05-23 5:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?


2011-05-23 5:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
??
cafenervosa - 2011-05-23 2:09 PM So, if I get rid of my clipless entirely, what are the odds of finishing a half or whole IM with regular pedals?Anyone out there ever do a half or whole without foot cages or clipless pedals? Thoughts? Comments?

.....about the same odds as using clipless pedals.  Just like it's possible to do the entire swim with one arm, or do the entire ride on a fixed gear bike, or do the entire marathon with one of those things I call a "moon boot", finishing a HIM or IM is completely possible with platform pedals.

I can't figure out if you are seeking opinions to continue using clipless or if you have already decided you're scrapping them.  Either way, I don't think platform or clipless have measurable safety benefits over the other.  If riding platforms helps put you at ease then rock the platforms. Sounds to me like your issue is riding with traffic though. You can get over it (no recomendation on how unfortunately) or you can stop riding with traffic.  Trainer, stationary, don't ride at all, etc....

2011-05-23 6:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

Use the pedals enough and you can do it at will. Even when you're 8 feet off the ground and realize you need to eject from your mountain bike because things are not going to end well.

Exactly my thoughts - use them until they are second nature. With enough experience unclipping is a reflex and you don't think about it anymore. I haven't had a accident in years where I blame my clips.

2011-05-23 6:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

cafenervosa - 2011-05-23 3:41 PM
rwolf - 2011-05-23 5:34 PM I am new to clipless pedals, and kind of share your concerns.  For me it is not traffic, but rather just the inability to free myself from the bike at will.  Can you just use regular pedals when you are in town, and switch to clipless when you race or ride outside of town?
I was thinking about this. What are you're thoughts on the combo flat pedals/clipless pedals? Too heavy? Not worth it?

Useless... the only thing you will get good at is riding without being clipped in. Clip-less has nothing to do with crashing or getting run over. How do you think Mt. Bikers ride clipless??? I can do all the stunts I want in the most technical terrain there is without a second though to my pedals. Time in saddle.

And I have wiped out plenty too clipless and the bike has always "magically" separated from me. Never once have I ever had any injury because I could not get out of the pedals... never even think about it.

You don't need to un clip and prepare to stop... you just need to smear your foot off your pedal as you step down. Granted you first do learn to twist.... lossen up your pedals till you get comfortable.

I realize we all have our different levels of comfort. However... if you always prepare to not use your clipless in certain situations... then eventually all you will learn is not to use your clipless pedals. From the sounds of it, it sounds like you are very uncomfortable riding in traffic. I would work on that problem and keep using your pedals. You have much much more control of your bike clipped in than out.

2011-05-23 6:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

If you are not going to win your age division, use any equipment you want.  The race is against the clock and it's all relative for an individual participant.

It's better to have fun and feel safe, even if others think it's silly.

2011-05-23 7:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
Indiana_Geoff - 2011-05-23 7:32 PM

If you are not going to win your age division, use any equipment you want.  The race is against the clock and it's all relative for an individual participant.

It's better to have fun and feel safe, even if others think it's silly.



exactly.

If the pedals are keeping you from riding -- switch them


2011-05-23 8:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
Seeing as guys not too long ago regularly finished a little 2000+ mile called the TdF (and all others for that matter) with clips and straps, I think you can swing 112 miles.
2011-05-23 9:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

Have you tried backing the tension way down? When my wife was learning I set them really loose so it hardly took any effort to release. Once her confidence was up we adjusted the tension up so she didnt accidentally unclip.

2011-05-23 10:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

1. Find a better bike route with less traffic, it sounds like the traffic is the real source of nerves. I watched a good friend of mine get run over and killed and after that I stayed off the bike for almost a year because of nerves. 

2. Practice, practice, practice. I have been riding clipless pedals for 15 years and now I don't even think about them and frankly get nervous on flats. 

3. Back the tension off on the pedals. You will be able to get in and out a lot easier and if you are having to "wrench" your foot out they are set too tight now.

4. Maybe you need a different pedal setup, look at Shimano SPDs or my favorite Speedplays. They all work and feel a little different. Yes you dropped some cash on the LOOKs but if you had a different setup that you where more comfortable with you might ride more.

5. Fall! Everybody falls once while still clipped in at the beginning, so get it over with and realize it is not that bad. Also practice getting out of the pedals while laying on your side. I simply pull my foot out of the shoe on the ground side rather than trying to unclip, be prepared for a fall while alone so you know what to do.

2011-05-24 9:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

Sous - 2011-05-23 6:05 PM Seeing as guys not too long ago regularly finished a little 2000+ mile called the TdF (and all others for that matter) with clips and straps, I think you can swing 112 miles.

Pro riders with clips and straps clamped the straps down tight, far tighter than any amateur would.  Not comparable at all.  And all pros today ride clipless. 

To the OP: as others have said, it's not the pedals that are makng your ride dangerous.  And with more experience, you can unclip at will.  Planning not required.

Riding an IM or HIM with platform pedals is certainly possible.  You're leaving a whole bunch of riding efficiency behind with platforms, but it's your race do what you want.



Edited by brucemorgan 2011-05-24 9:34 AM
2011-05-24 9:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
Indiana_Geoff - 2011-05-23 7:32 PM

If you are not going to win your age division, use any equipment you want.  The race is against the clock and it's all relative for an individual participant.

It's better to have fun and feel safe, even if others think it's silly.

Feeling safe is nice.  Being safe is more important, IMO.  Riding in dangerous traffic conditions will be no safer without clipless pedals than with them.  If OP gets a false sense of security riding without clipless pedals, I say that's a step in the wrong direction.



2011-05-24 11:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
brucemorgan - 2011-05-24 10:33 AM

Sous - 2011-05-23 6:05 PM Seeing as guys not too long ago regularly finished a little 2000+ mile called the TdF (and all others for that matter) with clips and straps, I think you can swing 112 miles.

Pro riders with clips and straps clamped the straps down tight, far tighter than any amateur would.  Not comparable at all.  And all pros today ride clipless. 

To the OP: as others have said, it's not the pedals that are makng your ride dangerous.  And with more experience, you can unclip at will.  Planning not required.

Riding an IM or HIM with platform pedals is certainly possible.  You're leaving a whole bunch of riding efficiency behind with platforms, but it's your race do what you want.

Agree 100%... but the OP also stated that they have become comfortable ridding with clipless pedals and it is only the traffic/congestion of his regular route that is causing a safety concern.  There is no reason why they couldn't use clips and straps loosly set up for training and then clamping them down for races, which will most likely have far less concern from the "safety" perspective.  Thus since the OP was talking about finishing an iron distance race with clips and straps, I'd say that my point is very comparable.

2011-05-24 5:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

Sous - 2011-05-24 9:32 AM ... There is no reason why they couldn't use clips and straps loosly set up for training and then clamping them down for races, which will most likely have far less concern from the "safety" perspective.  Thus since the OP was talking about finishing an iron distance race with clips and straps, I'd say that my point is very comparable.

I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Loose toeclips are not very effective, and tight toeclips are much more dangerous than clipless pedals as well as require more skill to disengage. 

Fundamentally there's a reason why no pro uses toeclips anymore - they're just obsolete technology.  I don't quite understand why anyone in 2011 would want to bother with them. 

2011-05-24 6:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?

Clipless pedals were invented by Jean Beyl as a safety device that enabled riders to escape from their pedals in the event of a crash more readily than from toe clips and straps.

Jean Beyl invented the first spring release ski binding, the "Look" binding, and went on to develop a similar stirrup for equestrian (horse jumping) training and then the famous Look cycling pedal in 1984.

Now, Beyl's invention assumed a few things:

1. It would be an alternative to a toe clip and strap system with no empiracle provision for escape.

2. It would reduce the incidence of knee injuries from accidents when the lower leg remained engaged in the pedal after the fall as the upper leg twisted.

3. It would allow the natural anatomical alignment of the foot on the pedal for neutral power transfer to the pedal without twisting forces on the leg, commonly known as "float".

For most users who experience anxiety surrounding clipless pedal use there are a few factors in place:

1. Less than optimal choice of pedal for their experience level: New clipless users are frequently (and incorrectly) recommended to a Shimano SPD sport level or MTB pedal because of the recessed cleat in the shoe that facilitates walking. This is a bad recommendation. Cycling shoes, especially for beginners, should be optimized for the intended use: Cycling. Not for walking. They should also have large platform for easy engagement and disengagement (clip in and clip out) and adjustable binding tension.

2. Incorrect shoes. Shoes that do not fit snug enough or have a stiff enough sole do not disengage readily. The shoe sole flexes when that energy should be transfered through the sole to the binding system, contributing to disengagement. "Walkable" shoes do not do this.

3. Lack of familiarity with system: Is the binding tension adjusted to the minimal level for new users so they can escape easily? Have they practiced engaging and disengaging in an indoor trainer to develop a high level of profieciency in a controlled setting prior to real world use? Are the cleats correctly installed by a trained installer to facilitate easy escape?

These and other factors contribute to difficulty in acclimating to clipless pedals.

Ultimately, the safest pedal system is always a properly adjusted, optimally selected clipless pedal system. It is what they were designed for. There is an incumbent necessity on the user to select the optimal system for their use and then exercise dilligence in training with the equipment so as to become familiar with its safe/optimal operation. Also, it is a good idea to have an experienced mechanic install and adjust your cleats and verify the safe operation of your system and your familiarity with it before you leave the store.

2011-05-25 7:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Thoughts on clipless pedals...what do u think?
Tom Demerly. - 2011-05-24 6:00 PM

1. Less than optimal choice of pedal for their experience level: New clipless users are frequently (and incorrectly) recommended to a Shimano SPD sport level or MTB pedal because of the recessed cleat in the shoe that facilitates walking. This is a bad recommendation. Cycling shoes, especially for beginners, should be optimized for the intended use: Cycling. Not for walking. They should also have large platform for easy engagement and disengagement (clip in and clip out) and adjustable binding tension.

On this point, I had a question. I am having similar issues with clipless to the OP. In trying to overcome it, I was looking at different systems. I feel VERY unstable even with my foot down with a road shoe/look-style cleat. I thought that going to a SPD with a recessed shoe would help with that but then I saw this post. Can you clarify a bit why that would be a bad choice? Input appreciated.

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