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2011-08-04 5:16 PM

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Expert
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Subject: Drafting Violation Question

Doing my first WTC event in a few weeks and I want to be sure I understand the drafting rules. I have two questions:

1. Under rule "d" below, it says you can't back out of the passing zone once entered. Does that mean if you attempt to pass someone, and can't complete the pass, you can be issued a violation? What if the rider in front of you speeds up so you can't pass them?

2. Also under rule "d", it says you have 20 seconds to pass. Are you allowed to be in the drafting zone during those 20 seconds, or do you have to move to the left as soon as you reach the 7 meter zone?

Thanks!

Position Rules:

a. Absolutely NO DRAFTING of another bike or any other vehicle is allowed.

b. Athletes must keep 7 meters (~4 bike lengths) distance between bikes except when passing.

c. A pass occurs when the overtaking athlete’s front wheel passes the leading edge of the athlete

d. Overtaking Athletes may pass on the left for up to 20 seconds, but must move back to the right side of the road, after passing. Failure to complete a pass within 20 seconds will result in a drafting violation. Athletes may not back out of the 7 meter draft zone once it is entered

e. Overtaken Athletes must immediately fall back 7 meters (~4 bike lengths) before attempting to regain the lead from a front running bike. Immediately re-passing prior to falling back 7 meters will result in an overtaken violation

f. Overtaken Athletes who remain within 7 meters (~4 bike lengths) for more than 20 seconds will be given a drafting violation 

g. Athletes must ride single file on the far right side of the road except when passing another rider, or for reasons of safety. Side-by-side riding is not allowed and will result in a position violation

 

h. Athletes who impede the forward progress of other Athletes will be given a blocking violation 

i. Athletes committing rules violations will be notified “on the spot” by an official.

j. Do not attempt to discuss the penalty with the official.

 



2011-08-04 5:23 PM
in reply to: #3629571

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Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
1) Yes, once you start to pass you need to complete it or you are in violation.

2) You can be in the draft zone for the 20s, so as long as you execute the pass saefly, you can ride right up behind the other rider and then pass.

Shane
2011-08-04 5:33 PM
in reply to: #3629571

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

1)  You should know if you will be able to complete the pass or not prior to entering the passing zone.  If you can pass them, do so.   If the person is riding the same speed as you and it is questionable...then hold off for a minute to see how their pace changes.  Since you caught up with them in the first place, they will most likely slow down. If they try to prevent you from passing them, then they are in violation per section d.

2)  That is an allowance.  It usually takes about 4-7 seconds to fully overtake somebody.  If you are going to stick around in the passing zone for the remaining time, you are wasting your time.  Just get it overwith and move on



Edited by lifejustice 2011-08-04 5:35 PM
2011-08-04 5:44 PM
in reply to: #3629586

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
lifejustice - 2011-08-04 6:33 PM

1)  You should know if you will be able to complete the pass or not prior to entering the passing zone.  If you can pass them, do so.   If the person is riding the same speed as you and it is questionable...then hold off for a minute to see how their pace changes.  Since you caught up with them in the first place, they will most likely slow down. If they try to prevent you from passing them, then they are in violation per section d.

Just to clarify -- if they try to prevent you from passing by moving left then they are not violating the drafting rule but rather the blocking rule.

If they try to prevent you from passing by speeding up then you better speed up too and get past them or you run the risk of drafting.

2011-08-04 6:01 PM
in reply to: #3629596

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Master
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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
Experior - 2011-08-04 6:44 PM
lifejustice - 2011-08-04 6:33 PM

1)  You should know if you will be able to complete the pass or not prior to entering the passing zone.  If you can pass them, do so.   If the person is riding the same speed as you and it is questionable...then hold off for a minute to see how their pace changes.  Since you caught up with them in the first place, they will most likely slow down. If they try to prevent you from passing them, then they are in violation per section d.

Just to clarify -- if they try to prevent you from passing by moving left then they are not violating the drafting rule but rather the blocking rule.

Correct, as I understand the rule.

If they try to prevent you from passing by speeding up then you better speed up too and get past them or you run the risk of drafting.

Also correct as I understand it.  And to add, that the moment your front tire passes theirs, it is then their responsibility to fall back out of the drafting zone.  So if they speed up (kinda d-bagish BTW) then its like a sprint for the line... just get your tire to nudge out theirs and "you win"

2011-08-04 6:01 PM
in reply to: #3629571

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West Michigan
Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
Interesting reading the rule.  I had some rider SCREAM at me that I was drafting (last year).  A rider had passed me and moved over instantly (almost hitting my front wheel but okay). Well i was directly behind him for about 10s as we passed a rider. Then moved out of draft zone.  Another rider caught up with us and he just went crazy at me.  I just told him to kiss....I went on my race.   


2011-08-04 6:03 PM
in reply to: #3629596

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
Experior - 2011-08-04 3:44 PM
lifejustice - 2011-08-04 6:33 PM

1)  You should know if you will be able to complete the pass or not prior to entering the passing zone.  If you can pass them, do so.   If the person is riding the same speed as you and it is questionable...then hold off for a minute to see how their pace changes.  Since you caught up with them in the first place, they will most likely slow down. If they try to prevent you from passing them, then they are in violation per section d.

Just to clarify -- if they try to prevent you from passing by moving left then they are not violating the drafting rule but rather the blocking rule.

If they try to prevent you from passing by speeding up then you better speed up too and get past them or you run the risk of drafting.

What I've heard from a local RD at a race was even if they just speed up when you try to pass they can be called for blocking even if they dont move to the left directly in front of you.

2011-08-04 6:08 PM
in reply to: #3629620

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

guppie58 - 2011-08-04 4:01 PM Interesting reading the rule.  I had some rider SCREAM at me that I was drafting (last year).  A rider had passed me and moved over instantly (almost hitting my front wheel but okay). Well i was directly behind him for about 10s as we passed a rider. Then moved out of draft zone.  Another rider caught up with us and he just went crazy at me.  I just told him to kiss....I went on my race.   

At my race last week I saw a full on peloton of ~15 riders going back (the course was an out and back and they were part of the sprint who just had a sooner turn around). Pissed me right off and checked the results and didn't see any violations given out. Makes me wonder the point of the violation if it isn't enforced

2011-08-04 6:11 PM
in reply to: #3629627

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
I understand that, but I had no where to go since we were passing a rider.  I think this guy thought I should slam on my brakes to get the distance between us.  I'm doing no such thing. 
2011-08-04 6:14 PM
in reply to: #3629571

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

At a couple WTC races that I have done that I attended the athlete meeting, the head referee has spoken about point 1 you make.  It is common that some folks speed up when you are passing them.....they specifically mentioned that women complain when passing men that they speed up to not be passed.

It is a pain when it does happen so you need to either push hard to get by them or know you might get a penalty.

I watch where I pass folks, if coming to an up hill I will not pass as most folks push it hard at base of the hill and I don't want to ride that way.

2011-08-04 6:28 PM
in reply to: #3629571

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

At my first tri last month there was a guy drafting me towards the end of the leg for about a 1.5 miles. I wasn't really sure what to do and the motercycle official never drove by so no penalties were ever given. 

What is the correct thing to do in this situation?



2011-08-04 6:30 PM
in reply to: #3629631

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

guppie58 - 2011-08-04 4:11 PM I understand that, but I had no where to go since we were passing a rider.  I think this guy thought I should slam on my brakes to get the distance between us.  I'm doing no such thing. 

Oh I don't think you were in the wrong.

2011-08-04 6:34 PM
in reply to: #3629620

Master
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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

guppie58 - 2011-08-04 4:01 PM Interesting reading the rule.  I had some rider SCREAM at me that I was drafting (last year).  A rider had passed me and moved over instantly (almost hitting my front wheel but okay). Well i was directly behind him for about 10s as we passed a rider. Then moved out of draft zone.  Another rider caught up with us and he just went crazy at me.  I just told him to kiss....I went on my race.   

Should've said "doesn't count if you don't get caught".

2011-08-04 7:51 PM
in reply to: #3629623

Master
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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
ubersteiny - 2011-08-04 6:03 PM
Experior - 2011-08-04 3:44 PM
lifejustice - 2011-08-04 6:33 PM

1)  You should know if you will be able to complete the pass or not prior to entering the passing zone.  If you can pass them, do so.   If the person is riding the same speed as you and it is questionable...then hold off for a minute to see how their pace changes.  Since you caught up with them in the first place, they will most likely slow down. If they try to prevent you from passing them, then they are in violation per section d.

Just to clarify -- if they try to prevent you from passing by moving left then they are not violating the drafting rule but rather the blocking rule.

If they try to prevent you from passing by speeding up then you better speed up too and get past them or you run the risk of drafting.

What I've heard from a local RD at a race was even if they just speed up when you try to pass they can be called for blocking even if they dont move to the left directly in front of you.

That's not how USAT interprets it.  Speed wise, they can do what they like (until you pass them).  They just can't get in your way.  It's possible that was a rule at that race, but it not generally how it's interpreted.



Edited by brigby1 2011-08-04 7:52 PM
2011-08-04 7:54 PM
in reply to: #3629647

Master
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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
chris-alfonso - 2011-08-04 6:28 PM

At my first tri last month there was a guy drafting me towards the end of the leg for about a 1.5 miles. I wasn't really sure what to do and the motercycle official never drove by so no penalties were ever given. 

What is the correct thing to do in this situation?

There is nothing that you really "should" do in this situation.  Riding on and ignoring him is fine.  You ask or tell him to quit it, mention about drafting being illegal if you like.  Someone may have a suggestion on a way to get rid of him, but if you get caught doing something that looks intentional a DQ is very possible for you.

2011-08-04 7:57 PM
in reply to: #3629620

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

guppie58 - 2011-08-04 6:01 PM Interesting reading the rule.  I had some rider SCREAM at me that I was drafting (last year).  A rider had passed me and moved over instantly (almost hitting my front wheel but okay). Well i was directly behind him for about 10s as we passed a rider. Then moved out of draft zone.  Another rider caught up with us and he just went crazy at me.  I just told him to kiss....I went on my race.   

Yeah, you're fine.  You were out of the zone in the allotted time.  In that situation it's more likely he'd get called for blocking if you had to slow down.



2011-08-04 7:59 PM
in reply to: #3629633

Master
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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
KathyG - 2011-08-04 6:14 PM

At a couple WTC races that I have done that I attended the athlete meeting, the head referee has spoken about point 1 you make.  It is common that some folks speed up when you are passing them.....they specifically mentioned that women complain when passing men that they speed up to not be passed.

It is a pain when it does happen so you need to either push hard to get by them or know you might get a penalty.

I watch where I pass folks, if coming to an up hill I will not pass as most folks push it hard at base of the hill and I don't want to ride that way.

I heard one head referee make a similar situation, but where the guy does get passed by a girl, but does an immediate pass-back when he realizes it.  Something about MAMIS, Middle Aged Men In Spandex.

2011-08-04 8:34 PM
in reply to: #3629742

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
brigby1 - 2011-08-04 8:57 PM

guppie58 - 2011-08-04 6:01 PM Interesting reading the rule.  I had some rider SCREAM at me that I was drafting (last year).  A rider had passed me and moved over instantly (almost hitting my front wheel but okay). Well i was directly behind him for about 10s as we passed a rider. Then moved out of draft zone.  Another rider caught up with us and he just went crazy at me.  I just told him to kiss....I went on my race.   

Yeah, you're fine.  You were out of the zone in the allotted time.  In that situation it's more likely he'd get called for blocking if you had to slow down.

It's blocking only if the rider moves left.  Alas, a rider can pass and then immediately slow down.  It happens.  Too often.  You (the one who was passed) have to suck it up, drop out of the draft zone, then repass.  If the rider moves left, then yeah, it's blocking.

2011-08-04 8:58 PM
in reply to: #3629571

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
My only option was to break my groove and slow down, but like I said, that wasn't going to happen. He was the one passing, so he's the one that should do the work.  I'm not there to accommodate his race.  I have a road bike so that would have meant leaving the aero position to brake.  Negative on that Idea.  But for the other guy to throw a tantrum was pretty stupid. 
2011-08-04 9:30 PM
in reply to: #3629816

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

guppie58 - 2011-08-04 9:58 PM My only option was to break my groove and slow down, but like I said, that wasn't going to happen. He was the one passing, so he's the one that should do the work.  I'm not there to accommodate his race.  I have a road bike so that would have meant leaving the aero position to brake.  Negative on that Idea.  But for the other guy to throw a tantrum was pretty stupid. 

(Almost) Everyone has to leave the aero position to brake.

You don't have to slam on the brakes when someone passes you (unless, technically, they do, and this is a little bobble in the rules IMO), but you do have to back off out of the drafting zone with some expediency.  If you don't like to do that, don't get passed.  When someone passes you, he or she is under no obligation to 'do the work' to put the requisite distance between the two of you to prevent you from drafting.  Doing so is entirely the responsibility of the person who was passed.  It sucks if you are the person who was passed and the passer slows down, but the rules are very clear on this point.

2011-08-04 11:57 PM
in reply to: #3629571

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Denver
Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
Coming from other sports where "gaming" the system is part of the sport - it seems to me training partners and team mates would take advantage of this by sending strong riders to pass then slow down a quite bit to effectively block competition ( pass then slow down to force them out of draft then wait out the bike length before they can pass & repeat) . Over a long course an a-hole rider could legally take more than a few minutes out of someone and put them in a situation for many penalties.


2011-08-05 7:41 AM
in reply to: #3629571

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2011-08-05 10:10 AM
in reply to: #3629970

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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

vagus - 2011-08-05 12:57 AM Coming from other sports where "gaming" the system is part of the sport - it seems to me training partners and team mates would take advantage of this by sending strong riders to pass then slow down a quite bit to effectively block competition ( pass then slow down to force them out of draft then wait out the bike length before they can pass & repeat) . Over a long course an a-hole rider could legally take more than a few minutes out of someone and put them in a situation for many penalties.

Trail blocking is an issue with mountain biking.  Two years ago, a certain local team did it a few times.  Once I learned, if I saw them blocking, they would get in elbow into a tree.  99% mountain bike racing is awesome and passing on tight trails is made easy by riders willing to move over.  But you get those 1% (which is same for every sport) who think it's their race and we are just spectators. 

2011-08-05 10:56 AM
in reply to: #3629789


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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question
Experior - 2011-08-04 9:34 PM 

It's blocking only if the rider moves left.  Alas, a rider can pass and then immediately slow down.  It happens.  Too often.  You (the one who was passed) have to suck it up, drop out of the draft zone, then repass.  If the rider moves left, then yeah, it's blocking.

 

Happened to me earlier this year, guy passed me right at the base of a hill then as soon as he got back over, slowed SIGNIFICANTLY as the grade increased.  I about plowed into him, had to take evasive maneuvers which put me right beside him, so I said screw it and completed the pass.  I know it was illegal, but it was a pretty steep hill and I wasn't about to all but stop to get out of the draft zone, then have to grind the hill.  FWIW, I never saw him again, so I was faster for the remainder of the course.

2011-08-05 11:03 AM
in reply to: #3629571

New user
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Subject: RE: Drafting Violation Question

I am new to the sport  and am back of pack biker.  I don't know all the drafting rules like most people here.

Say four people come out of the water all at once, the leaders.  They all hop on their bikes.  Must they immediately form a line of bikes? The last guy will have to be 63 feet behind the first guy.  Its basically a single file race except for passing under very strict conditions?

If he wants to pass, the last guy would have to pass all three people in front of him?

I can see in an Ironman that this is less of a problem, but in a sprint tri, it could be a huge disadvantage.

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