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2011-09-30 11:34 AM

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Subject: marathon long run question
For those of you who have run marathons close to the 3hr mark, what did your long runs look like pace wise compared to race day?
ie the 20+ milers, how did pace per mile stack up compared to a well executed race?

thanks!


2011-09-30 11:40 AM
in reply to: #3706609

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Expert
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question

Typically on my 20+ training runs, I start pretty slow (9+ min miles) for the first 3-4 miles, then settle in at a comfortable pace for 10-14 miles (depending on total distance), somewhere around 1 min over race pace.  I always try to finish strong over the last 3-4 miles, with each quicker than the one before it.  Ideally, my last mile or two is quicker than race pace.

I don't know if any coaches or books out there support this type of effort, but it's worked for me.  I love the idea of finishing strong and faster than race pace - it's very confidence inspiring to me.



Edited by Patrick E 2011-09-30 11:41 AM
2011-09-30 11:44 AM
in reply to: #3706609

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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
My best marathon to date is 3hr 26minutes but my long runs I try to do between 8:30-8:45 miles pace. I do not like to do them much slower than 45 seconds from marathon pace. For my upcoming marathon, the MCM, I am doing my long runs at an 8:15-8:30 pace as I am trying to get a 3hour 20 minute marathon or better this time. I am no expert as this will be my 5th marathon and 3rd one for this year. I did my first two last year.
2011-09-30 11:48 AM
in reply to: #3706609

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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
I wish I was close to 3 hours!!

I did my first marathon in April. I had a 3:30 goal. I hit the wall at 20 miles and ended up with 3:44, so about an 8:34 pace. My 20 milers were just easy paces around 10/mile. My 3:44 finish put me at 8:34/mile. So I was about 15% faster in the race vs. my long runs. I've done a LOT of running since then. I would doubt my long runs would be over 9/mile now. But I'd bet my race time would be closer to or under 8/mile now too. So that puts my long runs closer to 10-12% slower than what I believe my race time would be.
2011-09-30 11:49 AM
in reply to: #3706609

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Runner
Subject: RE: marathon long run question
Based on what I can look back at and see, I was probably running around 8:30 - 8:50 pace. For one marathon, I averaged 7:43 pace. A month later, I averaged 7:20 pace. But those long runs are a poor indicator of where I actually was fitness-wise.
2011-09-30 11:54 AM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question

I was a good margin faster in my 17 mile training runs than on race day in my PR marathon. In that race (Chicago Marathon) I was on a 2:50 pace until the last four miles, then the wheels absolutely fell off and I lost a ton of time, eventually staggering in at 3:06. Cry

Later than year though, I did go 33:10 for a stand alone 10K.

That last few miles really does do something dastardly to you if you aren't accustomed to the distance. The difference between 17 miles and and 26.2 miles is apparently more than 9.8 miles of additional running...

Surprised

Somewhat oddly, as I have gotten older I now run 100+ miles at about the same pace as I would run 26.2 miles, in other words, pretty darn slow.



2011-09-30 11:56 AM
in reply to: #3706623

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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
Patrick E - 2011-09-30 11:40 AM

Typically on my 20+ training runs, I start pretty slow (9+ min miles) for the first 3-4 miles, then settle in at a comfortable pace for 10-14 miles (depending on total distance), somewhere around 1 min over race pace.  I always try to finish strong over the last 3-4 miles, with each quicker than the one before it.  Ideally, my last mile or two is quicker than race pace.

I don't know if any coaches or books out there support this type of effort, but it's worked for me.  I love the idea of finishing strong and faster than race pace - it's very confidence inspiring to me.



I've heard others say this about finishing strong on their long runs too. Usually, I hear it from the faster folks. I try to do this now too and it has seemed to help me. I've had coaches tell me that the last part of the workout is were it counts to see the biggest gains. Seems to be logical.

I start out slower too and do some walking to warm up and cool down. All of that slows down my overall pace for the training runs vs. the race. If recall correctly, Higdon recommends your slow runs to be 1-1:30 per mile slower than race pace
2011-09-30 11:58 AM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
  • I ran a 3:09.28 (7:14 pace) mary and my 20 miler was around 7:55 pace on hilly terrain.  The mary was less hilly than my training ground.  My long runs I tried to stay sub 8 min pace.  hope this helps.
2011-09-30 12:20 PM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question

My average pace for 20 miles in the spring was a 7:02 which was pretty much identical to my marathon pace.  I had no food or water for that 20 miles though and I have one very large hill that I hit around 16 miles.

My marathon time was 3:04:25, so I was pretty much on.  I had plenty of gas in the tank at the end of the marathon.  My last 6 miles were around 6:30 average.  

2011-09-30 1:00 PM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
I go with the 3/1 formula for long runs, although I'm not doing 3 hr marys... more like 3:30.  3/4 is about 45 seconds slower than race pace, final 1/4 is race pace.  So my long runs will usually be about 8:45s for the first 3/4 of the run, then 8:00 for the last 1/4.
2011-09-30 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
I am at around a 3:15-3:20 mary and typically do longs around 8:15-8:30 so meh 45 seconds to 1 minute slower is decent.  You can do long run speed work in that you do the last 5 miles at race pace or do a progresive build for the last 5 miles or any number of fun things.  I found mile repeats at faster than race pace to be fun...  Hopefully I can drop some time I have only done the 3 stand alone maries.  The 20 miler pace isn't the hill you want to die on.  The main thing is to have your pace not drop off the last 3-5 miles of your long run.  Pick a pace you can hold the whole way.  If you can hold it, drop it 5-10 seconds and go again the following week.  Your HR should also give you feedback for where you should be.  Don't hold a pace that is going to be burning LT for a long run, it will fry your recovery. 


2011-09-30 4:16 PM
in reply to: #3706609

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Subject: RE: marathon long run question

I have yet to run a marathon, but my first will be MCM in Oct. I did my 18mi last weekend at a 10:09 pace and felt decent. I sorta blew up a little at the end, but that's how I'm learning.

I'd love to finish the full at a 9:30 pace and actually finish it feeling well. Based on my training, my predicted marathon pace is 9:36/mi.

I'll hit 21 next week then start tapering down.

2011-09-30 4:56 PM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question

30-40 seconds off race pace for the majority of the run and my running group picks it up for the last 4 miles. It can get pretty fast for the last mile or two as we go back and forth about needed to back off, but no one wants to be the first to drop. The idea is to finish at or faster than race pace.

Unless we are doing hills, then it's survival mode



Edited by moldoverb 2011-09-30 4:56 PM
2011-09-30 5:08 PM
in reply to: #3706609

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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
thanks guys!
2011-09-30 5:11 PM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
1 minute per mile slower in training, but always with negative splits in both racing and training.
2011-09-30 9:06 PM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question

There are three types of long runs that you do during your marathon prep. 

The first type is a straight long run at somewhere between :40-:60 above your planned marathon pace. 

The second type of long run starts out at :40-60 above MP, but you push the pace well below your planned marathon pace during the last 20-25% of the run. 

The third type of long run other starts out at :40-:60 above MP, but transitions to marathon pace somewhere during the second half of the run (increase the MP mileage each time).

You don't have to do a long run every week during your marathon build, but if you mix in these three type of runs during your training you'll do great.

As for me, I'm headed back to NYC to do my first marathon in 16 years.  I'm shooting for a sub 3hr effort.

Good luck David

 

 



2011-09-30 10:29 PM
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Subject: RE: marathon long run question
I'll be at the MCM as well.  I'm just running. I have no idea about my time as I haven't worn a watch for a few months while running.  My long run so far has been 18.  I suppose I'll run 20 tomorrow.  I don't know if I'll run further then that or not. I want to ride long on Sunday.  As I've said, I really enjoy this time of year.  I'm just having some fun. I think I'll be about 3:45, but who knows? I can see me looking around alot on that course and just enjoying the day. It may take longer.
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