General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths. Rss Feed  
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2011-10-07 3:08 PM

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Elite
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Subject: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/the-gist/Open-Water-Triathlon-Swim-Deaths.html

It's an interesting read. Worth a look.

Excerpt:

"Drowning was declared the cause of each of those deaths, but of the nine bodies autopsied, seven had cardiovascular abnormalities."



Edited by Tom Demerly. 2011-10-07 3:14 PM


2011-10-07 4:26 PM
in reply to: #3715556

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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.
Great article Tom. Thx
2011-10-07 5:25 PM
in reply to: #3715556

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Folsom, CA (Sacramento Area)
Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

"the Ironman World Championship, a mass start race with strict entry standards, has never had a swim death"

Did they mean the Kona Race only? becasue there is no standard for Ironman Races that I know of and if so, that is not a fair comparison.

"The form will be a step up from screenings that took place at this year’s event, which included 10 psychologists combing through race participants looking for panicked athletes and race officials looking for swimmers wearing wetsuits that we’re too tight or new"

seriously ? I always see a lot of people to the brink of crying,  what a stupid way to screen.  In my opinion, ALL OF US  KNOW Exactly what we are getting into it. When we sign the release of liability, it should really free the organizers or liability unless it is clearly negligence ( I can't even think of a ridiculous example).  Lawyers and politicians are going to ruin not only our sport but all physical sports IF we let them.   Just my opinion

 

 

2011-10-07 5:42 PM
in reply to: #3715736

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.
There is only one Ironman World Championship, and that is in Kona, Hawaii.
2011-10-07 6:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

The rub, and we see this issue here on BT every single week it seems:

 "If you’re going to race in a triathlon, make sure that you’re mentally and physically ready to do so. “People need to take triathlons seriously,” said Dr. Kevin Harris, author of the study on triathlon deaths. “Get in some open water swims, and talk with your physician before competing.”"

2011-10-07 6:22 PM
in reply to: #3715556

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

“It’s the least forgiving of all three events,” Marcus said. “If something happens on the bike or run, you just pull over. In the water, you can’t be seen as well by race organizers.”

Not just a hypothetical point:  A friend of mine realized he wasn't feeling right near the end of the bike at Malibu last month and pulled over and got down on the side of the course until paramedics were summoned.  Turned out he was having a heart attack (I believe he's only in his 30's, btw) and from what I've heard, his decision and the ability to get him to the hospital quickly saved his life.  Obviously if he gotten into distress during the swim, the outcome might have been very different.

Now this is someone with no previous history of cardiac symptoms, so not sure there's anything to be learned from this...other than that the swim really is less forgiving than the bike or run and treating it cavalierly on any level is foolish.



2011-10-07 6:52 PM
in reply to: #3715773

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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

I had a stroke while running and finished the run.

If it had happened in the water I don't know how the disorientation you suffer during a stroke would have affected me.

The next time I got in the water (a poolafter my stroke and heart surgery I promptly lost consciousness.

2011-10-07 6:56 PM
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2011-10-07 8:49 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

While the article Tom cites is sobering & we need to respect the physical test of triathlon.  But some perspective may be useful to consider.  The cited mortality rate for tri (1.5/100,000/yr) is actually LESS than annual participation mortality rates for hockey, football, and basketball reported in the National Registry of Sudden Death in Young Athletes (high school & college). 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/3/966.full    (See Figure 1)

And most (not all) US high school & collegiate athletes now undergo some "medical screening" prior to participation in competitive sports. 

 

 

 

 

 

2011-10-07 11:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.
From a scientific causality perspective, none of the suggested 'solutions' make any sense. We are all aware of how many new triathletes do very little swim prep, we see postings all the time. We encounter people during the swim start who say how nervous they are because this will be their first OWS. However, it is not these type of individuals who are having heart issues during the swim. I can recall two deaths of first year triathletes, and only one of these was a first triathlon for the individual, the others were experienced and would have easily passed any screening or qualification requirements. In the spirit of 'somebody has to do something, even if we don't know what', we are getting all these meaningless solutions. In the future, look for us having to wear some sort of emergency floatation device, something that inflates and sends up a flag. Bike helmets are mandatory safety equipment, so some sort of mandatory swim safety device will probably be proposed. Since the root cause has not been determined (and a post heart analysis showing abnormalities is the standard answer when the true root cause is unknown), it will be nearly impossible to come up with a solution that effectively addresses this terrible situation.

2011-10-08 5:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

I find it interesting that participants are not required to supply a doctor's approval but are encouraged to talk to their physician about competing in sports events.

Here in France, for any event, you are required to hand over a medical certificate signed by your Dr stating that you have been examined and are capable of participating. The certificate has to have been issued in the past year and sometimes even less (3 months for some races). No certificate, no race.



2011-10-08 5:36 AM
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Edited by Fred D 2011-10-08 5:37 AM
2011-10-08 11:40 AM
in reply to: #3716026

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Central France
Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

To be honest, my post was more about the cultural difference. Here in France the certificate makes it so that you can blame the doctor and takes responsibility away from the race organizer. Even my GP says it's a shifting of responsibility. However, a thorough medical visit isn't a bad idea (when you find a good GP). My personal experience is as follows:

It was the doctor at work (another particularity in France - employees must have annual medical visits with the company's physicians) that gave me my first certificate. As she thought she heard a heart murmur, and though my EKG was fine, she sent me to a cardiologist who did the full works. Only then would she sign off for my race. Now all my GP does - and he is much more thorough than most - is a 30 minute visit with a squat test, blood pressure before during and after, etc. And all that for $30 (yep, that's the going rate in France).

 

2011-10-09 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

I live in Israel, and we also have to have a sports medicine doctor perform a physical assessment before competing in any tri. The assessment is a stress test - stationary bike while hooked up to an EKG machine, with blood pressure measurements. THere's a list of licensed doctor's who are allowed to perform the test.

I think the point of the test is good, though obviously doesn't simulate the OWS panic effect. It does seem to shift the burden of responsibility to the doctors, though. I'm pregnant, and the first 3-4 doctors I called on the list weren't even willing to give me the stress test! The second to last one said she would give me the test, if I brought a note from my doctor saying I was "allowed" to do the stress test...and the doctor I did do it with, couldn't have cared less that I was pregnant. EKG was normal, and he allowed for the higher HR since pregnant woman always have a higher HR. He said the test of fitness for me would be how fast my HR came back to resting level, and whether I could carry on a conversation at a 170 HR.

So I'm really surprised to find out that in super litigious America, no medical release is required....

2011-10-09 11:06 AM
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Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.
nursenoa - 2011-10-09 10:44 AM

So I'm really surprised to find out that in super litigious America, no medical release is required....

The races do not require a medical release, but do require the participants to sign a waiver of liability.  Giving the participants the liberty to accept the risk associated with their decision to race. 

2011-10-09 12:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.
Hook'em - 2011-10-09 12:06 PM

nursenoa - 2011-10-09 10:44 AM

So I'm really surprised to find out that in super litigious America, no medical release is required....

The races do not require a medical release, but do require the participants to sign a waiver of liability.  Giving the participants the liberty to accept the risk associated with their decision to race. 



The waiver we sign basically keeps people from thinking about suing, but you are not surrendering any ability to litigate. The most likely reason there hasn't been lawsuits is that there's the feeling amongst the family that the individual knew and fully accepted the risks (this was the case in our situation). I was in a triathlon where is was poorly organized and absolutely dangerous (bad water conditions, inexperienced and few life guards, and an emergency forced the fire and police departments to leave the race, so no traffic control). Fortunately, nothing happened. If an injury or death occurred during that race, then it would be difficult for the race organization not to be found negligent.

Hopefully triathlon doesn't follow the track record of product liability laws in this country. They aren't necessarily bad, but it does take the responsibility off the individual. USAT puts out the rules for race directors of what should constitute a safe race environment. I also think there's something in our USAT membership that states we agree to properly prepare and train ourselves before we attempt an event.

For the requirement of a pre-race medical exam: Over the last three years I raced in 10 separate "Memorial" races. All these were for athletes who died during an athletic event. Talking with their relatives, all were seasoned athletes with many years of hard physical activity (many sub-5 milers). They would have easily passed and pre-race qualification. My worry is that the focus on inexperienced athletes is clouding the issue.

It is the experienced athlete, with no previous symptoms, who is at the greatest risk of sudden cardiac death. Isn't that the majority of participants.





2011-10-09 12:46 PM
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2011-10-11 1:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

As triathlon grow in popularity, the risk of death will increase, mostly from the increase in # of participants, but also from the increase in # of unprepared participants.

As someone stated, the waiver is an attempt to dissuade people from litigating, but it won't stop people. 

Death at a recreational event is a tragedy, but aside from cases of negligence (cyclist in a car crash on a closed course) it is the participant who should be assuming the risks.

You cannot legislate the danger out of life.

2011-10-11 1:43 PM
in reply to: #3715556

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Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.
look on the bright side, if we start requiring pre race medical checks, i'm sure our new national healthcare program will cover the cost!!  lol....
2011-10-11 5:17 PM
in reply to: #3719525

Elite
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Laguna Beach
Subject: RE: Outside Magazine's Erin Beresini on Triathlon Swim Deaths.

You can't legislate the danger out of life, and I wouldn't want to.

I agree with that, but- respectfully speaking: That isn't the point.

Swim safety isn't the issue on the table. The only people who care if we die or survive is us, and the opinion on that is clear; you pay your money and take your chances. Big boy rules.

No problem.

The issue is cost of indemnification. Insurance. Calculated or argued risk. If we don't do something about that proactively, someone will do it for us. Chances are we won't like the outcome. Then the forum will be lit up with posts like, "My local sprint triathlon went from $65 to $90!"

People will complain vigorously when the liability insurance companies charge more and race promoters have to pass those costs on, along with national governing body. They'll cite "ballooning insurance costs" and "escalating liability coverage" from "recent swim deaths" and talk about "exposure to risk" and "perceived danger". The ski industry, motosports industry, personal watercraft industry, SCUBA industry and the step ladder industry have all experienced it.

We're not immune, we just haven't been "outed" yet by the liability insurance industry.  Once we are the costs will skyrocket faster than you can say "revenue stream".

Then, as if it is the first time we've ever heard of it, we'll all flood the forums and in one, loud, unified voice we'll proclaim, with mournful surprise:

YO DAWG, THIS SUCKS

The lesson of history is if we don't administer ourselves, someone else will, and we may not like the outcome- but we will have to accept it then.



Edited by Tom Demerly. 2011-10-11 5:19 PM
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