General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Power meter question! Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 4
 
 
2011-10-26 3:30 PM

User image

Expert
1194
1000100252525
Subject: Power meter question!
Getting my year end bonus soon and I think I'm gonna use part of it to buy a power meter. Been trying to study up on different types and prices, I'm leaning towards the quarq/crank rather than the powertap mainly because I'll be changing out wheels to race with. Just wondering if anyone here uses the quarq pm and if its a quality product? Also if there are any issues with it fitting my current bike (felt b12)...would hate to shop online for something like this and have a problem!

Thanks


2011-10-26 3:33 PM
in reply to: #3739351

User image

Veteran
262
1001002525
Subject: RE: Power meter question!
I'm the same position... i really wish the new garmin vector was coming out sooner, rather that after winter training is over!
2011-10-26 3:43 PM
in reply to: #3739351

User image

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

I have a quarq on my tri bike and love it. The swapping of race wheels, training wheels and even a trainer wheel is really convenient.

Quarq customer service is amazing. I called them to ask how to swap it between two bikes, they told me I would need an extra magnet, put one in the mail for me and followed up to see if I had received it. This week I sent them a question, they responded within minutes

I also have a PT that I keep on another bike in another city. It has been very dependable. I don't race with it, don't need to swap wheels, tires, so it's fine.

Both are equally accurate.

If I had to start over and only buy one, it would be the quarq.

2011-10-26 3:51 PM
in reply to: #3739351

User image

Master
1376
1000100100100252525
Chicago
Subject: RE: Power meter question!
I have a quarq and have had no issues with it and really love it.  Being able to easily switch wheels is nice, in addition if you want to switch it between bikes it is actually pretty simple to take it off and put it on a different bike.  There is a Youtube video out there someplace of a guy switching it from bike to bike in less than 2 minutes.  
2011-10-26 3:52 PM
in reply to: #3739351

User image

Elite
3498
20001000100100100100252525
Laguna Beach
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

Quarq has come a long way since being acquired by SRAM.

That said, it is still a crank based power measurement unit, much better than a rear wheel based unit like PowerTap since the accuracy of the data isn;t at all modified by the transmission of force through the drivetrain. Quarq and SRM measure power at the crank.

The new Garmin device takes it a step further and measures power at the pedal, and can provide accurate power measurements for left and right feet independently, so you can see assymetry in your pedalling.

Garmin- being an enormous company- has a massive infrastructure to support this effort also, including upgrades to their Garmin Connect online interface. That is another big advantage to the Garmin unit.

http://sites.garmin.com/vector/#power

Image Detail



Edited by Tom Demerly. 2011-10-26 4:11 PM
2011-10-26 4:19 PM
in reply to: #3739421

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.


2011-10-26 4:23 PM
in reply to: #3739351

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2011-10-26 4:44 PM
in reply to: #3739480

Elite
3498
20001000100100100100252525
Laguna Beach
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

"First, could you explain what "Quarq has come a long way since being acquired by SRAM" means?"

Yes.

Firstly, they have acquired the infrastructure of the SRAM family of brands, the SAP customer service and accounting software, the customer service staff, the rep force and all the things that make buying and owning a product easier for a consumer and easier for a dealer to sell and service.

Secondly, Quarq now has some working capital for warranty service, development and product placement. They can sponsor pros to a larger degree, integrate marketing with SRAM, conduct new projects for product development. Before the SRAM acquisition their belt was a lot tighter.

"This will also be Garmin's FIRST foray into the power meter business. Quarq had a lot of 'first-user' issues that took years to iron out.... you don't think it's possible Garmin will have several of these types of problems early on?"

Not likely since the technology has matured significantly, largely on the backs and at the expense of guys like SRM and, to a lesser degree, Quarq.

This is, actually- and strictly, not Garmin's first foray into power measurement, and I can't speak publicly about that too much, but you can read between the lines. Other power measurement brands were recently on the block. Garmin shopped carefully before acquiring the Vector technology from its developer, and they did evaluate other technologies along the way, over the years... They went with Vector.

Also, it's a question of deep pockets too. I chuckled yesterday when I read a tech article that menitoned Garmin "had some consumer GPS's available". We know Garmin as their consumer GPS models. The bulk of their business is maritime, defense and large commercial GPS. Garmin has very deep pockets and buys companies wisely and can throw a lot of cash at a product to "make it good".

It was only a matter of time before an 800lb gorilla got in the power measurement game. SRAM with Quark is about a 350 pound gorilla. Garmin has a big capital and infrastructure advantage over them, and an easier to use and own product too. It's promising.

2011-10-26 4:49 PM
in reply to: #3739487

Elite
3498
20001000100100100100252525
Laguna Beach
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

"I would stay away from brand new power meters like the Garmin at least until the first 6 months are passed after release"

The technology Garmin bought with Vector is about three years old now. Next year will be its fourth year. Specifically, working units were developed about 36 months ago and have been in use since then. A number of trade and technology (and business) constraints meant a run at the consumer market wasn't viable prior to Garmin's acquisition. Additionally, Garmin wasn't the only company trying to buy Vector, and that whole rigamorol took about a year to sort out.

2011-10-26 4:55 PM
in reply to: #3739487

Elite
3498
20001000100100100100252525
Laguna Beach
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

"The ultimate gold standard is still SRM, but by far the most expensive and poorer customer service."

I thought the calibration routine, necessary with about every use, was a big limiter. Also, no user-replaceable batteries (you have to return the unit to the U.S. service center for battery replacement) is a huge stumbling block.

Additionally- and this is a BIG factor, SRM, Quarq and PowerTap all use a foil strain gauge susceptible to the environment. The new Garmin unit uses a proven (in industrial power measurement applications) silicone strain guage. It produces more precise, repeatable power measurement across a wide temperature range. The unit is also more weather and corrosion resistant, a big issue with earlier PowerTap (although the new PowerTaps for 2012 are greatly improved for weather seal having adopted a lot of technology similar to, well, Garmin Vector...)

2011-10-26 5:06 PM
in reply to: #3739351

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.


2011-10-26 5:08 PM
in reply to: #3739526

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2011-10-26 5:12 PM
in reply to: #3739534

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2011-10-26 5:18 PM
in reply to: #3739550

Elite
3498
20001000100100100100252525
Laguna Beach
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

"But again, how many consumers were using Vector in real world situations in those 3 years?"

Fred, that's an accurate observation. It's correct.

The current versions were used by professional cycling teams including in a competitive setting, training, maintenance and extended poor weather use. Additional units were provided to individuals for use real world as part of Garmin's evaluation process prior to the acquisition. Garmin shopped this hard before cutting a check.

Now- as you correctly mention, when you throw this is the barrel of monkeys known as consumers will there be problems? Yup. The same problems with every new product launch from brassieres (did you know consumers have filed a class-action lawsuit against Victoria's Secret?) to baby food. Someone will have a problem with the product. Guaranteed.

I will suggest that the newer power measurement devices- from any and every brand- are improved generationally over previous versions. The early ones were not ready for prime time. Some really still aren't. The Garmin Vector is a consumer product. It is as ready for prime time as a product ever gets. Their current work is devoted to ramping up manufacturing and distribution in anticipation of reasonable demand.

Given the $1500 price point, light weight (lightest power measurement in the industry by a huge margin), ease of use, durability and user serviceablity (battery changes are infrequent and easy by the user) along with a couple other introductions to a smaller scale that Garmin has coming this unit may be worth waiting for.

2011-10-26 5:51 PM
in reply to: #3739351

Champion
19812
50005000500020002000500100100100
MA
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

I have had power meters since 2006....3 different PTs, Quarq that had spider replaced. My first PT was wired and in time it broke and they could not fix it as no more parts but they offered a nice discount to replace it with a wireless version.

I've had issues with both brands but found both Quarq and Sarris customer service to fantastic. Both companies have cyclists and/or triathletes who do customer service. They use and know their products well and will help you.

I have Garmin 305, 310XT, Edge 500. Customer service is okay and was better back when I bought my first Garmin product. Folks that answer the phone are reading off some computer screen and go find a unit to help figure it out. I often ask complicated questions that they don't really help much with.

Customer service for Quarq and Saris is far better from my real world experience than Garmin.

It would be nice if Garmin would hire some cyclists and have a unique phone number to have customers contact those folks as opposed to typically answers the phone when I call Garmin in last couple of years.

To part of Fred's point, when PTs first came out that were wireless many if not most folks had major issues. In time they were resolved but is is frustrating to buy something expensive and not have it work right out of the box and take months to get it fixed.

2011-10-26 5:52 PM
in reply to: #3739351

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

Additionally- and this is a BIG factor, SRM, Quarq and PowerTap all use a foil strain gauge susceptible to the environment. The new Garmin unit uses a proven (in industrial power measurement applications) silicone strain guage. It produces more precise, repeatable power measurement across a wide temperature range. The unit is also more weather and corrosion resistant, a big issue with earlier PowerTap (although the new PowerTaps for 2012 are greatly improved for weather seal having adopted a lot of technology similar to, well, Garmin Vector...)

I want to know how it holds up after you dig one of those pedals into the concrete



2011-10-26 6:02 PM
in reply to: #3739600

Elite
3498
20001000100100100100252525
Laguna Beach
Subject: RE: Power meter question!
That was one of my first questions. Firstly, it's darn near impossible to get the power meter to hit the pavement even at very steep lean angles. Secondly, it survived crash tests well.

Edited by Tom Demerly. 2011-10-26 6:02 PM
2011-10-26 7:00 PM
in reply to: #3739351

Pro
5892
5000500100100100252525
, New Hampshire
Subject: RE: Power meter question!
Have used numerous PowerTaps in the past and they work well. Switched to Quarq this year and that is honestly the best power meter I have ever used. I use the same crank for both my road bike and tri bike and it only takes a couple of minutes to switch from one to the other. Love the freedom to choose what ever wheel I want for that specific ride/race.

Quarq customer service is near legendary as well... never had a company being that caring and just concerned about doing the right thing.
2011-10-26 7:38 PM
in reply to: #3739421

Expert
1194
1000100252525
Subject: RE: Power meter question!
Tom Demerly. - 2011-10-26 4:52 PM

Quarq has come a long way since being acquired by SRAM.

That said, it is still a crank based power measurement unit, much better than a rear wheel based unit like PowerTap since the accuracy of the data isn;t at all modified by the transmission of force through the drivetrain. Quarq and SRM measure power at the crank.

The new Garmin device takes it a step further and measures power at the pedal, and can provide accurate power measurements for left and right feet independently, so you can see assymetry in your pedalling.

Garmin- being an enormous company- has a massive infrastructure to support this effort also, including upgrades to their Garmin Connect online interface. That is another big advantage to the Garmin unit.

http://sites.garmin.com/vector/#power

Image Detail

Looks interesting...when is this available?
2011-10-27 12:43 AM
in reply to: #3739695

Extreme Veteran
1175
1000100252525
Langley, BC, 'Wet Coast' Canada
Subject: RE: Power meter question!
skipg - 2011-10-26 5:38 PM
Tom Demerly. - 2011-10-26 4:52 PM

Quarq has come a long way since being acquired by SRAM.

That said, it is still a crank based power measurement unit, much better than a rear wheel based unit like PowerTap since the accuracy of the data isn;t at all modified by the transmission of force through the drivetrain. Quarq and SRM measure power at the crank.

The new Garmin device takes it a step further and measures power at the pedal, and can provide accurate power measurements for left and right feet independently, so you can see assymetry in your pedalling.

Garmin- being an enormous company- has a massive infrastructure to support this effort also, including upgrades to their Garmin Connect online interface. That is another big advantage to the Garmin unit.

http://sites.garmin.com/vector/#power

Image Detail

Looks interesting...when is this available?

 

Following the link to the 'More Info' tab says March 2012,  $1499.99

2011-10-27 1:16 AM
in reply to: #3739518

New user
5

Subject: RE: Power meter question!
Tom Demerly. - 2011-10-26 3:44 PM

"First, could you explain what "Quarq has come a long way since being acquired by SRAM" means?"

Yes.

Firstly, they have acquired the infrastructure of the SRAM family of brands, the SAP customer service and accounting software, the customer service staff, the rep force and all the things that make buying and owning a product easier for a consumer and easier for a dealer to sell and service.

Secondly, Quarq now has some working capital for warranty service, development and product placement. They can sponsor pros to a larger degree, integrate marketing with SRAM, conduct new projects for product development. Before the SRAM acquisition their belt was a lot tighter.

"This will also be Garmin's FIRST foray into the power meter business. Quarq had a lot of 'first-user' issues that took years to iron out.... you don't think it's possible Garmin will have several of these types of problems early on?"

Not likely since the technology has matured significantly, largely on the backs and at the expense of guys like SRM and, to a lesser degree, Quarq.

This is, actually- and strictly, not Garmin's first foray into power measurement, and I can't speak publicly about that too much, but you can read between the lines. Other power measurement brands were recently on the block. Garmin shopped carefully before acquiring the Vector technology from its developer, and they did evaluate other technologies along the way, over the years... They went with Vector.

Also, it's a question of deep pockets too. I chuckled yesterday when I read a tech article that menitoned Garmin "had some consumer GPS's available". We know Garmin as their consumer GPS models. The bulk of their business is maritime, defense and large commercial GPS. Garmin has very deep pockets and buys companies wisely and can throw a lot of cash at a product to "make it good".

It was only a matter of time before an 800lb gorilla got in the power measurement game. SRAM with Quark is about a 350 pound gorilla. Garmin has a big capital and infrastructure advantage over them, and an easier to use and own product too. It's promising.

 

FYI, not a lot has actually changed at the Quarq factory / headquarters since the acquisition with SRAM. The customer service team is comprised of the same folks that we had prior to the acquisition. Yes, we will now have more marketing and sponsorship opportunities as part of the SRAM umbrella. SRAM's rep force and distribution network will also be very beneficial for us.

I'd also like to make sure folks know the only Quarq model that we've discontinued since the acquisition is the Lightning model and that decision was already made prior to the SRAM acquisition. Actually, we still have a few of those floating around if anyone really wants one.

Mieke Meyer

Quarq Technology



2011-10-27 2:24 AM
in reply to: #3739941

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2011-10-27 2:30 AM
in reply to: #3739934

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2011-10-27 6:49 AM
in reply to: #3739949

Master
2563
20005002525
University Park, MD
Subject: RE: Power meter question!
Fred D - 2011-10-27 3:30 AM

To *me* I wanted a power meter that I could use for different bikes and also for race and non-race wheels. 

That's exactly my priority. And I'm not terribly handy, and would like something that I could easily put on bikes in different places. So I'm sitting tight waiting for the pedal/shoe-based power-meters (Garmin, Brim Brothers) to hit the market. ... And then I'll probably continue to sit tight for a while longer, dreaming of the time when competition or demand sends the price below $1000.

There are some good discussions of the development progress of the new power-meters on dcrainmaker.com (unsurprisingly). 

2011-10-27 8:48 AM
in reply to: #3739351

Veteran
203
100100
Traveling
Subject: RE: Power meter question!

Again, as you want it this winter Garmin is out. I own a quarq and a SRM. I had bought the quarq first but it did not fit my bike. It turns out it was a demo not quarq's fault. Their service was excellent but in the end in order to stick with my dura ace 7900 I opted for the SRM. Had quarq had something in a dura ace 7900 I would never have bought SRM. That said the unit from SRM worked easily has given me no problems what so ever and I am happy.

So make sure it fits your bike first and that you are buying from a reputable seller. Price big difference!

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Power meter question! Rss Feed  
 
 
of 4