General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How sore it too sore? Rss Feed  
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2006-02-03 11:43 AM

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Subject: How sore it too sore?
I finally caved and joined a gym. The wet and dark finally forced me indoors. I met with a trainer and she gave me a weight routine to go along with my cardio. As per usual, I went all out and really paid the price a few days later. My arms were so sore that I thought twice about lifting a coffee cup.

I know I'm going to be sore as I get used to new exercises, but at what point am I doing more harm than good? And is there anything I can be doing to cut down on the post weight-training soreness?


2006-02-03 11:54 AM
in reply to: #338216

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Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?

"Suck it up, buttercup"

 Just kidding, that's stolen from somebody's blog title and seemed appropriate.  Serious answer - if you're taking that approach with weights just wait until you wreck your knees/hips by running too far too soon.  Change your approach.  Mental discipline is at least as important as physical. 

As far as alleviating the soreness people more knowledgeable than I will chime in with advice about stretching and lactic acid.  Listen to them.

Side note - is your trainer aware you are specifically training for a tri and gearing your excersizes toward that? 

2006-02-03 12:19 PM
in reply to: #338216

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COURT JESTER
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Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?

Just stretching will may not take care of that lactic acid soreness you feel the days following weight training.

After weight training, do some very easy cooldown stuff like an easy jog or brisk walk on a treadmill, or do an ellipical runner.   Something to get the blood flowing....then stretch out.  

I've found that if time is limited and there's a choice between post weight training stretching OR some easy cardio.....I choose the cardio and don't feel the pain nearly as much.

That's my $1.05 worth of opinion.

Have FUN!!

2006-02-03 12:23 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Expert
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Sarnia, Ontario
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
If you are more weight training oriented than aerobic, the rule I have heard is "2-3 days".
If you wake up the next day and can't tell you have trained = not enough weight
2nd day should still feel it.
3rd day better be pretty close to recovered or you are working too hard
4th day if you are still sore = worked too hard for sure

This assumes that you eat right, and excersize with proper form.
This includes pre and post workout meals etc.

When I am aerobic training (bike, run, swim) I can't weight lift as hard, or my other training suffers. Weights have to be toned down a bit, and/or adjusted to more core body than legs for example.

COLD showers or soaking in COLD water will help recovery.
2006-02-03 1:15 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Expert
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Livermore, Ca
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
You can never be too sore, unless you're hurt. If you haven't lifted weights before you are shocking your muscles. It may take a long time for your muscles to get use to getting shocked. It took my legs 8 months to get use to squating.
2006-02-03 1:35 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
I don't think there's much benefit to killing yourself when starting a weight program. For the first few weeks at least, you're going to get "stronger" due to developing muscle memory for the exercises, rather than purely developing strength. As a second thought for you, if you're lifting weights primarily as a way to help train for triathlons, you probably want to do sets of more reps with lighter weight, rather than higher weight and fewer reps. You don't really need the maximum power output, you need a lesser output over a longer period. Personally, I lift much differently now than I did training for sprint swimming in college... Just my two cents, good luck with your program.

-Matt


2006-02-03 1:42 PM
in reply to: #338304

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Expert
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St. Louis
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
My advice is to be careful about training when you're sore. It's your muscles' way of telling you that they are still being repaired (with quality protein and quality fat as the 'brick and mortar' if you will.)
DOMS - Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness - can hit you 2, or even 3 days, after working out a specific muscle group. Adequate rest is far too often overlooked when people lift weights for strength and size. let a muscle group rest sufficiently before hammering it again.

Bottom Line: Listen intently to your body, build up slowly with your workouts (you'll be happier in the long run) and remember that NOT lifting on your day OFF is just as important as lifting during your workouts.

Have fun!
~B
2006-02-03 2:00 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Provo, UT (my heart is in Seattle)
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
Be careful about listening to trainers. Umm... maybe I should tag a disclaimer on this post first: I'm not taking a shot at any personal trainers on here. I support and respect you. Ok, that said, make sure that you study weight lifting on your own as well. I know a few trainers at the gym that I belong to that are idiots. I really mean that. You don't have to do much to be certified by some programs now. In fact, there is one that you can basically just sign up for online, pay a fee, and voila... you're a trainer. As far as lactic acid buildup, make sure that you undercompensate the first week or two. Work on your weight lifting form before you actually add lots of weight. It may look silly for a while, but you will improve your strength in leaps and bounds if you have proper form. Also, it will help you to gauge what an appropriate weight would be for you to start with. Finally, make sure that you are stretching after your workouts. I don't stretch before; I just make sure that I warm up completely. Afterwards though, I don't leave until I have stretched all of my muscles, especially the ones that I used for my workout. Hope that helps somewhat!
2006-02-03 2:03 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Master
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Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
All I can say is that everyones body is different. I have been lifting weight for a long time and anytime I don't workout a particular bodypart for awhile it gets sore as heck. Take it slow.
2006-02-03 2:03 PM
in reply to: #338317

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Provo, UT (my heart is in Seattle)
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
Drewwhite - 2006-02-03 12:00 PM

Be careful about listening to trainers. Umm... maybe I should tag a disclaimer on this post first: I'm not taking a shot at any personal trainers on here. I support and respect you. Ok, that said, make sure that you study weight lifting on your own as well. I know a few trainers at the gym that I belong to that are idiots. I really mean that. You don't have to do much to be certified by some programs now. In fact, there is one that you can basically just sign up for online, pay a fee, and voila... you're a trainer. As far as lactic acid buildup, make sure that you undercompensate the first week or two. Work on your weight lifting form before you actually add lots of weight. It may look silly for a while, but you will improve your strength in leaps and bounds if you have proper form. Also, it will help you to gauge what an appropriate weight would be for you to start with. Finally, make sure that you are stretching after your workouts. I don't stretch before; I just make sure that I warm up completely. Afterwards though, I don't leave until I have stretched all of my muscles, especially the ones that I used for my workout. Hope that helps somewhat!


LET ME CLARIFY ONCE MORE, I'M NOT TAKING A SHOT AT ANY PERSONAL TRAINERS IN THIS, I'M JUST ADVOCATING LEARNING ON YOUR OWN!
2006-02-03 2:38 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Extreme Veteran
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Seattle
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
Thanks for all the input. I probably should take it a little easier, and I definitely could add some stretching. It's bad that I remembered while I was racing home... "dope, didn't stretch my arms".

Confession time: The weights are an addition to my cardio/tri training, in an attempt not to be a pudgy bridesmaid this spring. The bride has informed me that we'll spend a good five hours with the photographer prior to the cerimony. I looked at the strapless dress she chose and thought "oh hell, I haven't been working my arms". Thus the overdoing it at the gym. Shake your heads at the silly vain girl.


2006-02-03 3:47 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Expert
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St. Louis
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
It's a common misconception that you can spot-reduce fat. You simply CANNOT do it. If you want to get more lean throughout your whole body, focus on the BIGGEST muscles in your body, not just the tiny little bi's and tri's.
For example, your hammies and quads are GIGANTIC in comparison to your bi's (in most people, at least! ). Work those muscles on a regular basis because they will consume the most calories in the repairing process.
I would suggest doing 'compound' excercises which include pull-ups, pushups, squats, dead-lifts, and dips. Do them with assistance if you need. Learn proper form FIRST.
Good luck!
~B
2006-02-03 4:23 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Extreme Veteran
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Seattle
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
LOL, so you're saying haul my sorry self out of the office, and into my running shoes a little more often. And yes, the quads and hamstrings are massive.
2006-02-09 10:45 AM
in reply to: #338216

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Atlanta
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
I'm a personal trainer and it's pretty common that during your first week of training you'll be very very sore fir 2-3 days after.

Soreness is different from pain.

My basic recomendation to clients is that you are feeling sharp pains that would come from a sharp object let me know and we'll find an alternative exercise and find out whats wrong.

If it's a dull aching pain as if from a blunt object --I don't want to hear about it -- you are supposed to feel that!

It gets a LOT easier after the first 1- 2 weeks!! If you can bicep curl 5lbs for 4 sets 15 reps the first week with 3 days of residual pain,
by the 6th week you should be at 12lbs 4 sets 15 reps 4-8 hrs soreness.

Drink LOTS of water, have some potassium & gatorade and a serving of protein within max 60min of you workout and you'll notice that the soreness becomes almost non-existant!

a good stretch afterwards, long hot baths with epsom salts and hydogen peroxide and massage -- even if must do it yourself, will all help remove lactic acid buildup


Edited by Ninababy 2006-02-09 10:49 AM
2006-02-09 10:52 AM
in reply to: #338216

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Champion
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Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?

Repeat after me. 

Lactic acid is gone within minutes.
Lactic acid is gone within minutes.
Lactic acid is gone within minutes.

2006-02-09 11:17 AM
in reply to: #338216

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Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?

There is an excellent book "Physiology of Ssports Training" by Tomas Kurtz az www.station.com and he also has a bunch of free articles, very detailed and scientific. This is a great read. His other great book is "Stretching Scientifically". According to Tomas Kurtz, if i understood well, that sorenes is not a lactic bildup but a torn filaments - but torn more then necesserily (excessive microtears followed with inflammation process). His rule of thumb is: if your sorrenes is better after you take an aspirin, than you worked too much and caused excessive inflammation. It is not only usefull but also dangerous. I know that statement goes contrary to usual misconceptions. But someone who does it all the time risks overuse injury. also, new tissue need some time to mature. otherwise it will be structuraly weak - again risk of injury.

so, never train sore muscle.

also, never stretch cold muscle.

my 0.02 would be: find a weight you can lift only once, and then lift only half of that weight (even if it means lifting empty stack), but don't go to the point of failure, there is no need for that. trust me, less is more: the fastest way is one without injury. don't ask me how i know. ;-)



2006-02-09 12:11 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Extreme Veteran
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Seattle
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
Maybe the most important thing I'm going to learn from this sport is to patience. I tend to be all or nothing, and expect immediate results. I can see progress in my level of fitness, but it's slow and steady, and I'm by no means the athlete that I'd like to be. The same goes for the weights. I need to learn to pace myself, and care for my body, rather than beating up on it, and then getting discouraged because it's less than comfortable.

Thanks for the reminders to drink, stretch and drink some more.
2006-02-09 12:22 PM
in reply to: #342371

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Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
Amen to that, sister! i'm in exactly the same boat! i just couldn't believe how unfit i was and still am, and how almost *everything* was too much, i just couldn't believe it. but it's going better. congrats for your visible progress!
2006-02-09 1:28 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Master
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A Prairie Home
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
Wow.. if you can't lift a coffee cup, then that's pretty serious. I have only gotten super sore under 2 occasions. 1. after a white water rafting trip, my arm was so sore, I couldn't even lift it. and 2. day after my first class for butterfly stroke, my abs (front and back) were so sore, I couldn't sneeze.

Those were good days.
2006-02-10 6:54 PM
in reply to: #338216

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Veteran
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Victoria, BC
Subject: RE: How sore it too sore?
Not sure if it helps you, but I love (well, hate and love) a good ice bath. And I recently discovered Traumeel cream (recommended to me by a chiro, found it at a compounding pharmacy). When I can get hubby to massage my sore muscles with Traumeel, the soreness magically goes away. It's all those herbs or something...
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