my first swim video (be nice :)) and a few questions (Page 2)

Um, and this fingertip drill thing is kinda confusing the heck out of me.

So elbow high on the recovery, and my fingertips drag across the water....until I put my hand back in the water? And when and where does that happen?

I need very specific instructions or else I try to put things into practice and they look like....the video you just saw. Fail.

Watch this video where it is explained: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U4gCxJFoso

Have you looked to see if there are any masters swim groups in the Cincinnati area?  (don't be put off by the name - you don't have to be a "master" - in age, experience or gender!!).   They cater to all experience levels/speeds, but are not there to teach you to swim, but generally offer good coaching and a lot of motivation. 

There are three or four masters groups around here and they aren't too expensive.  Most also offer several free sessions to check it out and see if you like it.

Just a thought.  Good luck!

I found a list of all the masters classes in the area, but none of them fit into my schedule well. Most are either very early in the morning or very late in the evening, when I really need something like an 8 or 9 AM. There's one that would work well, except you have to be a Y member. I'm not, and I'm locked into a contract at my gym (which has no masters program). There is another that has a pay-per-class option and I may try to drop in there every once in a while.

Great job on the video, that's a really good way to solicit feedback.

I'm not a fan of completely deconstructing a technique and starting over, I'm more about finding one or two things that will move in the right direction without disrupting what's good. I'm no coach, so my advice can be taken with a grain of salt, but here's what I thought looked good:

1) your arms <in the water> have a nice position and long stroke.

2) your breathing looks natural to you

3) there's nothing rushed or awkward in your stroke

It's been said already but pointers:

1) Your arm never really comes out of the water

2) Your head is up slightly (I've seen a lot worse)

I don't know that your kick is actually something that's a problem or not, simply because in swimming one flaw can create so many others. If you were to get your arms out of the water more and 'spear' your entry back in front of your body, you wouldn't be creating as much vertical (meaning up and down from the bottom of the pool to your abdomen) resistance. Vertical resistance pushes your chest and head up and your feet down, making for a more drag inducing kick and a higher head. Most get this from pushing water down instead of back (think windmill arms), but by dragging your arm in the water you are probably doing it earlier than at re-entry. As an experiment, do a few laps with a pull buoy, focusing on getting your arm out of the water and spearing your hand re-entry.  It *might* bring your head down just that last bit and lift your legs more naturally. As you get more used to the arm motion, lose the buoy and kick as you were before and it may not be that much of an issue.

A variation on the finger tip drill to practice getting your elbow high is to finish your stroke with your thumb off your hip (as you're doing already) and then drag your thumb up to your armpit, then spearing into the water ahead on that path. It's *just* a drill, as it keeps your arm too tight to your body to be practical in the long term, but it's good for getting your elbow up more.

I bought finding freestyle and didn't find it very useful, but YMMV. There is one or two drills in there that might click for you, might not, but the majority of it really feels like it's on comfort in the water and feeling for resistance rather than zeroing in on a particular mechanic. 

The recommendation in an earlier response on the deep-end kicking drill is a great one in my opinion. (I'll be doing that, thank you! it takes me several laps to find my kicking rhythm, but that drill will work on race day in about 2 minutes!)

Ok, before giving my advice you should know, I'm not a very good swimmer, and haven't been doing it for more than a few months so feel free to discount my advice.

That being said.  I find that two drills that both help me a lot are the catch-up drill and the finger tip drill.  I find that when doing the catch-up drill I have to keep one hand out front at all times and so I reach a lot more.  I also roll side to side a lot easier when I'm reaching that much.  Then, If I am reaching and rotate easily by dragging my fingertips and keeping them close to my side I have to get that shoulder up in the air to do it forcing me to roll on my side.  So really the purpose is to get tall and long and roll all the way up on each side.  Does any of this make sence?  I have found that thinking about specific drills or trying to do them without any understanding of exactly what I'm trying to accomplish just messes me up.  But if I can think about what I am trying to do for my stroke, Longer reach, Keep a hand out front all the time, Roll onto the side, ect, then it works much better. 

A few people have brought up the finger-tip drill and rolling more and your low reach in the video.  You may want to just keep filming, don't need to share every one if you don't want, and watch how your reach is working out.  You don't want to bring your elbow up high per say. If you lay on the floor on your stomach (you don't have to if you don't want to, I'm just using it for imagery.) and put your right arm strait out to the side you wont be able to put your right elbow up in the air and your fingers next to your body.  Wont work unless maybe your gumby.  But now roll onto your left side.  If you put your right arm strait out it will be sticking strait up in the air.  Now let your elbow go limp.  Your elbow will be strait up in the air and your fingertips will be hanging down by your side.  Bingo, you got it!  Now if your left are were to be reaching strait out in front of you, over your head, you would have it!

Any of this make sense?

Take it for what its worth, since my knowledge comes from YouTube and I freely admit to being a novice!

The low elbow recovery issue that many have pointed out is a symptom (not the cause) of your biggest issues.  When you look at the underwater angle, it's clear that you aren't generating any power from your stroke.  While you do need to address your low elbows on recovery, you can do all fingertip drills all the time and it won't correct the problem. 

Watch your elbows as you pull (underwater).  They come down and then pull straight back through the water.  The only part of your arm that's generating any propulsion is the back of your arm.  This is not uncommon and can be corrected--I've seen many, many beginners swim this way.  It's relatively easy to swim like this--you may even feel somewhat comfortable and relaxed.  Your arms are taking the path of least resistance through the water.  The problem with this is that you want your arms to get anchored in the water so you can pull/push your body forward.

When your hand enters the water, extend your arm forward and keep your shoulder rotated inward so that your elbow is pointing up.  (It won't be pointing straight up for most folks, but it should be angled toward the surface.)  When you start to pull, try to hold your elbow in place as you drop your hand and forearm down toward the bottom of the pool.  This position will feel awkward at first--here's a dryland scenario that is similar: If you're standing on one side of a large desk and are trying to reach an object that's sitting on a chair on the other side of the desk--think about how you'd reach for it.  You'd lean over the desk with your arm extended forward and elbow up.  Your hand would reach down for the object but you couldn't drop your elbow (because the desk would be in the way).  If you try this at your desk, pay attention to the inward rotation of your shoulder (kinda like you're shrugging/hunching) and the direction your elbow is pointing (upward).  

From that position (in the water), you'll be able to get your hand and forearm set in the water in order to propel yourself with power--always keeping your elbow high.  Once you have that position figured out, you can work on the rest of the issues.  But just fixing that single issue will give you more power, more time to breathe, and correct a number of other issues in your stroke.

If you're interested in a full analysis, I do remote video analysis.  I'd need to see some additional angles to give you a full breakdown.

Good luck!

I have not done their program, but I have heard nothing but good things about it.  

From what you have posted and watching the video I would do this and seek out advice. There are a lot of things you need to work on and having someone there to demonstrate and observe would do a lot of good. If there was a TI class or instructor near by I would be getting into that.

Well, I guess it depends on how long you've been teaching swimmers to swim. Going way back to the 80s even, correcting strokes was 'View it under water, pull them out of the water, try to demonstrate it, or get a better swimmer to demonstrate in water, and then work on this same flaw over and over'. Rinse. Repeat. 

Flash forward a few years. Video tape someone. SHOW  them what they are doing wrong. Then demonstrate what they are doing wrong, what they are doing correctly, and put them back in the water. The impact a video can make in 5 minutes is exponentially faster than anything I can go over day after day for a month. 

Trust me on this, you can spend a month correcting one flaw, but if someone can SEE what they are doing wrong they will be more likely to correct it. 

I'm not going to get into a debate over this. I've been doing it long enough to know what works. If you want to waste time/money on swim 'coach' (who may not even be able to demonstrate proper form) to teach you to swim, have at it. If you want results, do it with a video camera, get it analyzed and move on to the next flaw in your stroke. 

I've had swim video analysis done (both for free here, and for a fee), and got feedback from what I think were well qualified individuals.  It was helpful.  I've also had one-on-one coaching from a very good coach.  It was more helpful.  Just one data point...

Swimming is unnatural (for most if not all of us), so communicating how to do it well is, IMHO, extremely difficult.  I think that the best thing we adult-onset swimmers can do is look around relentlessly until we find some message that seems to work.  (Give each message some time, of course, as in weeks or months, not hours or days).  When it stops working, look around again.  IME, it is not easy to find a good solution.  When I first started, I looked online, in books, and for coaches of various sorts for a long time before I found one person who was genuinely helpful to me.

Odd debate....

Seems to me you can get great help and make progress with a good coach who doesn't do video and you can also throw your money away with a poor coach who does video but provides bad analysis and advice.  You can also get great help and make progress doing online/remote video analysis from a good coach or you can throw your money away to a bad coach. 

IMO the ideal situation is a good coach who can provide video analysis on the spot so the swimmer can get right back in the water and try things out.  In the end though, if your coach is no good, it doesn't matter if there is video there or not.

I was thinking the same thing as the first bolded part, because I was also thinking the same as the second.