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2011-12-27 11:26 AM

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Subject: consistent runners -> marathon plan

In 11 days I will run my second full marathon.  Both times I've run a marathon I've come from an extended period of non-running and trained for ~ 6 months, building something of a base for a couple of months and then starting at the beginning of a marathon training plan.  That got me wondering, for the consistent runners out there who are doing 30+ mpw, how do you transition into a marathon training plan? 

Let's say you are always at a place where you are doing 13-mile long runs, do you just pick up at that point in an established plan?  Or do you not follow an established plan and rather just follow specific theories (step-back every 3rd of 4th week, don't go too far over 20 miles, don't do too many 20+ milers, etc)?

For consistent runners, is the marathon-specific training before a specific race a much shorter period of time than the standard 16 or 20-week plans you see for novices?



2011-12-27 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan
I just kinda ease into a plan based on my current fitness level.  I would NOT recommend MY plan for anyone else.  They would probably die of boredom.
2011-12-27 11:59 AM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan
michael_runs - 2011-12-27 11:26 AM

In 11 days I will run my second full marathon.  Both times I've run a marathon I've come from an extended period of non-running and trained for ~ 6 months, building something of a base for a couple of months and then starting at the beginning of a marathon training plan.  That got me wondering, for the consistent runners out there who are doing 30+ mpw, how do you transition into a marathon training plan? 

Let's say you are always at a place where you are doing 13-mile long runs, do you just pick up at that point in an established plan?  Or do you not follow an established plan and rather just follow specific theories (step-back every 3rd of 4th week, don't go too far over 20 miles, don't do too many 20+ milers, etc)?

For consistent runners, is the marathon-specific training before a specific race a much shorter period of time than the standard 16 or 20-week plans you see for novices?

 

I have used a plan for all of my 'racing' marathons. The few I've done without a plan, I've run nowhere even close to as fast. At least for me, there is simply no way I would otherwise push myself week after week to run so much mileage. Once your over 55mpw running, it's pretty easy to just say 'well I've been going hard enough' and back off. 

 

The Pfitz plans are meant for folks who have built upto about 40mpw - they transition in from around there and go up in mileage to 55, 70 or beyond. There is no way in hell I would have run that much by just doing 'instinctive training', and it also led me to run far faster than I ever dreamed possible for someone of my mediocre-below ability.

2011-12-27 12:08 PM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan
I just followed my own plan.

My approach has been that a "training plan" is more formal and regimented than maintenance stuff. During the actual training, I am more diligent about hitting target distances and efforts, and far more ordered in what workouts out I do and when.

The length of time depends, but it would probably be along the lines of 18-20 weeks.

When planning the training, I generally base it on how much time I have available to run, and plan backwards from the race date. I give myself 3-6 weeks of higher intensity workouts with the last week being race week; 8-12 weeks of stengthening work, which is usually hills and tempo-type runs, and then the rest is building volume as high as I can get it. The volume build can extend into the strengthening phase as well.

Maintenance running is generally about focusing on being relaxed, and recharging the mind.
2011-12-27 2:18 PM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan

I'm at ~47 mpw for the last 15 weeks.  That inculdes B2B 140.6 and a 26.2 with a 3wk & 2wk taper and recovery week.  I have another 26.2 next weekend and another 5 weeks later.  My logs are up to date.

    I write my own marathon plan following principles I learned from reading Jack Daniels' Daniels' Running Formula, P. Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning, Sandler's Consistent Winning (book about proper tapering,) and bits & peices from Endurance Nation.  If you are a runner, read Dr. Daniels' book at the minimum.

My basic week is 7 days of running as 1 threshold day, 1 tempo day, and 1 long run.  My long runs alternate between 2:30 & 1:30-2:00.  Every other day is a 6 mile easy run.  I typically do my threshold day as a brick and my tempo day as a 2/day run/bike.  I like the idea of the 4th week being a recovery week, but my schedule usually puts me onto a rest/taper week for a race so I dont have to force a recovery week.

During tri-season, I follow Endurance Nation's training plan and add as much run volume as my lifestyle tolerates and as little swimming as I can justify.  As a cyclist, I love running.  Go figure.

Pre-B2B, I was running 33mpw non-marathon specific.  Post-B2B I made a conscious effort to build marathon fitness for 4 weeks with a 2 week taper for an attempt at a sub-3 marathon (race report link in my signature.)  For the upcoming marathon, I will most likely have 4-7 easy days leading up to the race as opposed to a true taper. 

 

I hope that helps.

2011-12-27 3:54 PM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan

There is only a month out of the year where I'm below 25mpw. That's in December after the final marathon of the year which comes last Sunday before Thanksgiving.

I have my own plan I've been using for the last 4 years. It gets tweaked some based on specific race goals. I do incorporate a 22 mile run and 2-3 20-milers. One tempo and one interval run per week, 5 runs total per week. I do have a "recovery" type week every 4th week.

If I am doing a spring marathon I build back to 30mpw and then 16 weeks out start actual training. For a fall marathon after a full season of SBR and a spring marathon I find that I can train for 12 weeks I am just fine. But I am already running >35mpw at that point. It's the end of tri season so I swim and bike less and run more. I definitely am a believer in cross-training though, not so much for any physical benefit as for providing variety.



2011-12-27 4:31 PM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan

All runners are different but a couple tools and rules that I have fallowed for my marathons are

1. I have never covered a full 26.2 for a training run.  My biggest long run is usually between 18-20 miles increasing gradually each week up to that point.

2. Always incorporate some speed work (one mile repeats x 5-6), hills, and at least one tempo run slightly faster than race pace per week.  You have to get your body used to running fast on tired legs for the last 4-5 miles.

3. Start your taper 3-4 weeks out depending on how much mileage you have worked up to.  Never race in new shoes, and by the time you need energy and are feeling spent, it's too late and you miscalculated your nutrition while racing. Good luck and crush it!!!



Edited by Trilambs 2011-12-27 4:32 PM
2011-12-27 4:48 PM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan

Scout7 - 2011-12-27 10:08 AM I just followed my own plan. My approach has been that a "training plan" is more formal and regimented than maintenance stuff. During the actual training, I am more diligent about hitting target distances and efforts, and far more ordered in what workouts out I do and when. The length of time depends, but it would probably be along the lines of 18-20 weeks. When planning the training, I generally base it on how much time I have available to run, and plan backwards from the race date. I give myself 3-6 weeks of higher intensity workouts with the last week being race week; 8-12 weeks of stengthening work, which is usually hills and tempo-type runs, and then the rest is building volume as high as I can get it. The volume build can extend into the strengthening phase as well. Maintenance running is generally about focusing on being relaxed, and recharging the mind.

^^ Almost exactly this, esp. the bolded statements.

I try to keep myself in what I consider "half iron fitness" year round...i.e., I'm generally doing long continuous swims of 2000-2400 yards, long rides of 40-50 miles, and long runs of 10-14 miles on a routine basis.  So for marathon training, it becomes a matter of a fairly manageable build in the length of the long runs, paired with a gradual increase in intensity on those long runs over the course of the "marathon-specific" training.

I'm right in the middle of that transition right now...long run is up to 17.3 miles, but I haven't really started to up the pace on long runs particularly yet (marathon in in mid-March)...I'll likely get in two 20 milers (2nd one at 90% of race pace or better) before the mary if my health holds up.

2011-12-27 4:59 PM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan

I just run run run.  I know the theories, and base my ramp up to a marathon off of the hal higdon beginner marathon plan just to make sure I'm running enough.  If you looked at my logs (garmin, not here) you probably wouldn't say it looked like the hal higdon plan.  But my winter (before my ironman training begins) is run focused, and I do run some 5k's competitively to make sure I get variety in my pace in there and I'm not slacking off. I pick up the plan where my usual running may fall short, so if I'm consistently doing 30 mpw with a longest run of 12 miles, then where the training goes higher, that's when I pick up the plan.

For the most part, I feel it.  If I don't feel like running one day, I don't, but I don't skip long runs.  I don't want to not like running.  I'm still usually left with 30-35 miles each week.

FWIW, I'm hoping to run my next marathon 3:30-3:55.

2011-12-27 6:33 PM
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Subject: RE: consistent runners -> marathon plan
firegirlred - 2011-12-27 4:59 PM

FWIW, I'm hoping to run my next marathon 3:30-3:55.

Good luck!  I'm running my next one in 11 days and I'm shooting for 3:52 (not to get too specific).  My strategy is to go out at an 8:54 pace for the first half and then run by feel the second half.  I ran a 1:43 half marathon a couple of weeks ago, so this should be doable.

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