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2012-04-17 9:46 AM

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Subject: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

So, my post says it all, I'm so freakin frustrated by these repeated injuries, is there a shoe out there that would help me? I've been sticking with a 12m heel to toe b/c I feel that would be less likely to cause strain on achilles/calf, am I wrong?

I've been running in Brooks Adrenaline and everything has been fine until my "long" 8 mile run on Monday where at about 6.5 things started going very wrong, I just wanted to get home so ran very easy for the rest.

I put compression socks on right away and iced on and off for about 1.5hrs, went about my day and iced b/f bed last nite. I'm walking ok but can feel the ache there. Naturally I have to do the hateful aqua-jogging the rest of the week but now I would really like some answers. My friend recommened the book "Chi running" or something to that effect.. said it de-emphased pushing off too hard using calf, maybe I should read that but I was also wondering if there was a shoe that would better suit me...what about those crazy Hooka's, I don't know, all I know is I have a half-ironman in 8 weeks and this is bad, please help me if you can but be nice, I'm a sad pup right now.

Patsy



2012-04-17 10:15 AM
in reply to: #4155449

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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

I would suggest no more than a 1/4 inch heel lift to begin with then work your way up from there.  Make sure your shoes are flexible at the ball of your foot too.  I have consistent achilles problems from trail running, and have found if I do push ups before I run as well as my stretching, it has a major impact.  

I had to adjust when I went to a trail running shoe because it actually forced me to operate in a more lengthened position.  I didn't realize I had been balancing myself in a plantarflexed position causing me to shorten my use of my achilles in regular running shoes.  



Edited by ecozenmama 2012-04-17 10:16 AM
2012-04-17 10:27 AM
in reply to: #4155449

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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

I am over a year in to an achilles injury.  I never needed to miss running as a result of it and at the moment it's quite manageable and still improving.  Obviously it would have improved by now without running, but I wanted to keep running and believe I did the right thing.

Here's what I did.  First off I STOPPED running outside.  Strictly treadmill for a good 6 months before reintroducing outside running.  it goes without saying I had to stop my weekly long trail runs.  It's quite hilly in my area, but even if it weren't running outside would require I jump up curbs and down from curbs and over potholes or other obstacles.  The treadmill removes all that bother.

I also made sure to remain in my high lift training shoes for all runs.

I iced and soaked in hot water at least once each per day, but usually two.

Once the pain subsided enough to allow stretching, I made sure to stretch the calves.  But made sure to avoid that up until it was well enough not to make matters worse.

I stopped getting out of the saddle on training rides opting to spin a higher cadence.  I also moved my cleats all the way back on my cycling shoes.

I modified my running form slightly, it was invisible to someone watching, but I kept my ankle joint (calf) relaxed while running.  Didn't use any toe off.  This is important.  The ankle joint is kept 'dead' during all phases of the stride.  It results in a flat-foot landing but it's not like running in ski boots--the toes stay on the ground behind you.  it LOOKS like you are toeing off.  You are really just picking up the heel before the toes.

 

So I was able to maintain 40+ miles per week of running all year through the achilles problem.

 

2012-04-17 10:54 AM
in reply to: #4155449

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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??
I have no affiliation with them but CEP had some sort of heel support sleeve specifically for achilles tendinitis sufferers at the marathon expo over the weekend. It looked interesting to me. I thought about buying one if my Achilles acts up again.
2012-04-17 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

I've had constant Achilles injuries (both legs) the last two years.  With varying success, I used compression, massage, heel lifts, icing, no-running, etc.  The injuries would heal (slowly!), but would come back.

Then in the Fall, I went for a gait analysis (http://pursuitathleticperformance.com -- Kurt and Al REALLY know their stuff), and the diagnosis was poor pelvic position from (1) a weak core, and (2) tight hip flexors / quads.  So I worked at a prescribed program of strengthening and stretching over the winter, and not only did all injuries go away, but my run sped up.

In the last few weeks, I've been busy at work, neglected the program, and had a small Achilles relapse.  But I was able to recognize the cause right away -- lots of biking leading again to overly-tight hip flexors -- and nipped the issue in the bud quickly.

So, here's what works for me (sorry if its too much info, but I sympathize with a fellow Achilles sufferer):


1) The Achilles is just a connector to the calf muscle.  So Achilles issues are rooted in the calf.

2) I foam-roll my calves after EVERY run to remove any tightness.  I will quickly foam-roll before a run if my calves feel tight.

3) After longer runs, I'll wear calf compression sleeves for a few hours.

4) During the day, I lightly stretch the calves out.  I don't stretch calves much after running because I have found that this strains the Achilles.

5) For me, hip-flexor/quad stretching is key.  If I'm too tight, my pelvis tilts forward, which strains the calves, and leads to Achilles strains.

6) Once the Achilles is healed, eccentric calf-drops seem to help keep it healthy.

7) If an Achilles is sore, I stop all running.  My goals then are (1) to remove all calf tightness (I do this with compression sleeves, rolling, massage, and gentle stretching), and (2) to get gentle calf exercise to promote healing (I've found that hiking for a few hours at a time works great).

Good luck!

2012-04-17 12:27 PM
in reply to: #4155906

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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

rockymtnhigh - 2012-04-17 1:01 PM
I've had constant Achilles injuries (both legs) the last two years.  With varying success, I used compression, massage, heel lifts, icing, no-running, etc.  The injuries would heal (slowly!), but would come back.

Then in the Fall, I went for a gait analysis (http://pursuitathleticperformance.com -- Kurt and Al REALLY know their stuff), and the diagnosis was poor pelvic position from (1) a weak core, and (2) tight hip flexors / quads.  So I worked at a prescribed program of strengthening and stretching over the winter, and not only did all injuries go away, but my run sped up.

In the last few weeks, I've been busy at work, neglected the program, and had a small Achilles relapse.  But I was able to recognize the cause right away -- lots of biking leading again to overly-tight hip flexors -- and nipped the issue in the bud quickly.

So, here's what works for me (sorry if its too much info, but I sympathize with a fellow Achilles sufferer):


1) The Achilles is just a connector to the calf muscle.  So Achilles issues are rooted in the calf.

2) I foam-roll my calves after EVERY run to remove any tightness.  I will quickly foam-roll before a run if my calves feel tight.

3) After longer runs, I'll wear calf compression sleeves for a few hours.

4) During the day, I lightly stretch the calves out.  I don't stretch calves much after running because I have found that this strains the Achilles.

5) For me, hip-flexor/quad stretching is key.  If I'm too tight, my pelvis tilts forward, which strains the calves, and leads to Achilles strains.

6) Once the Achilles is healed, eccentric calf-drops seem to help keep it healthy.

7) If an Achilles is sore, I stop all running.  My goals then are (1) to remove all calf tightness (I do this with compression sleeves, rolling, massage, and gentle stretching), and (2) to get gentle calf exercise to promote healing (I've found that hiking for a few hours at a time works great).

Good luck!

Great info here.  Do you have any links or descriptions of good hip flexor stretches for the OP and other Achilles sufferers such as myself? 

And to the OP: are you sure you are wearing the correct running shoes for your gait/foot shape?  A gait anaylsis may be a good idea if you haven't done so already. 



Edited by melbo55 2012-04-17 12:29 PM


2012-04-17 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

Thanks all so much for your suggestions, I think they may help! I'm gonna rest,compress and ice for a few days and see where I'm at but will be doing aqua-jogging in the morn to get some "running" in.  I think maybe I need to be more intent on warming up my legs b/f the run with maybe a light spin on the bike and stretching and rolling to allow for more flexibility right off the bat. Wow, Jeffy you are so diciplined, I think I would have to kill myself if I did treadmill for 6mo!   but I can choose a route that's relatively flat and stay in the bike lane, no curbs and such to deal with for me.

Well, I guess it's nice to know some of you were able to train thru the injury, I know I have to be careful with that but would like to give it a try next week and see how it goes.  You give me hope!

Thanks again gang!

Patsy

2012-04-17 12:47 PM
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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

Patsy, whatever you do remember that achilles issues require patience.  You can get through even the worst but resign yourself to making changes that may last for months.

I have suffered for the last three years from chronic tendonitis and in the past few months am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.  I employed many of the suggestions above but derailed myself many times because of my lack of patience and pushing things too hard, too soon.

2012-04-17 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

 

This one is good -- my yoga group groans whenever we do these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmqoV87xvQM

 

My other favorite is done lying on your back along the edge of a bed or couch.  I haven't found a video/picture of it, but you let one leg dangle to the ground, then hook your foot on the ground to hold that leg in place -- it helps if the bed/couch is kind of low -- a weight bench is perfect.  This is the leg that will be stretched.  Now take your other leg and GENTLY pull it toward your chest.  You'll feel the stretch in the quad/hip flexor of the leg touching the ground -- try not to let your back arch as this negates the stretch.

2012-04-17 12:49 PM
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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??
popsracer - 2012-04-17 12:47 PM

Patsy, whatever you do remember that achilles issues require patience.  You can get through even the worst but resign yourself to making changes that may last for months.

I have suffered for the last three years from chronic tendonitis and in the past few months am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.  I employed many of the suggestions above but derailed myself many times because of my lack of patience and pushing things too hard, too soon.

 

Amen to this!

2012-04-17 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??

Aaaarrgh. Mine too.  No- the hooka's would make it worse, and you won't be able to change your stride all that much in 8 weeks.

I've had achilles issues for all my life.  I had them in summer camp when I was a kid.  when running XC in high school, and on and off every since.  Over the last 3 years of running I've developed a little system.

1.  changed stride to 180 bpm.  that helped a lot of problems.  especially my hips.  Create playlist of 180bpm music.

2.  less push off- as perscribed above.  But not always.  sometimes I want to use them to keep them strong.

3.  If I stopped running every time I had a little achilles pain... I'd never run.  So, I rate the pain on a scale of 0 (no pain) to 10.  -if it gets past 5 I'm shuffling and at 6 I'm walking.  at 7 I'm limping.   If the pain is a 0-2, I start my run.  Sometimes it goes away, sometimes it finishes where it started, sometimes it increases- in which case I slow down and jog home.  I've been amazed where sometimes my achilles starts at a 2, goes to a 4 by mile 8, and then by mile 12 the pain is gone.  After a 20 mile run- my achilles don't hurt at all, nor the next day.  Then- sometimes, like after a 12mi run on Sunday (up hill), I can't run at all right now. 

4.  last year- I brought my running up slowly, mixed with a lot of cycling, and then pushed through the fall for marathon training 60-75mpw.  The achilles held up great- but then they've never fully recovered from my January marathon.  Been hurting ever since- on and off, but I managed to bring it back up to 45mpw.

5.  I haven't gone low-drop.  still 12mm or so (depending on my various shoes).  Perhaps that helps a little, but a quick calculation indicates for every 1 degree of incline- that's 3.5mm of reduced drop.  So those 12mm shoes help a little on the flats, but a few degrees of incline and it's all gone anyway. 

6.  rolling.  calf stretches.  lot's of self massage.  eccentric calf stretches- when it feels good, not when they hurt.

7.  cold-heat-cold-heat. 

8.  active recovery.  yeah- sorry about that, but pool running, cycling, elliptical, etc.

I'm looking down the barrell of an uphill marathon (6000ft vert) in 11 days.  Not sure if I'll make the starting line myself.  that's life.

 



2012-04-17 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: My achilles is toast yet again, urrr! Shoe recommendation??
PatsyID - 2012-04-17 12:36 PM

Thanks all so much for your suggestions, I think they may help! I'm gonna rest,compress and ice for a few days and see where I'm at but will be doing aqua-jogging in the morn to get some "running" in.  I think maybe I need to be more intent on warming up my legs b/f the run with maybe a light spin on the bike and stretching and rolling to allow for more flexibility right off the bat. Wow, Jeffy you are so diciplined, I think I would have to kill myself if I did treadmill for 6mo!   but I can choose a route that's relatively flat and stay in the bike lane, no curbs and such to deal with for me.

Well, I guess it's nice to know some of you were able to train thru the injury, I know I have to be careful with that but would like to give it a try next week and see how it goes.  You give me hope!

Thanks again gang!

Patsy

That's something I completely forgot to mention!  For quite some time I NEVER ran without a non-running warmup first.  One of my favorites was to ride the bike to the park where I would run.  Running shoes were in a backpack, I'd put them on and lock up the bike and run.  The ride home was a great cool down too.

Since running is stressful on certain connective tissues, how can starting to run cold be a gentle way to warm up those tissues?  It really can't.  So a non-running warmup is good. 

In your specific case, if you don't want to ride a bike first, you can walk, stretch a tiny bit, do calf raises (flat surface, both feet, up to tip-toes and down 30 or so times), stretch a little more then begin the slowest jog possible and try to ease in to your training pace without triggering any of the usual tenderness you've probably begun to associate with beginning a run on your sore achilles.

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