BT Forum

If your not bringing all your nutrition in bottle form-

I like a bottle between the aero bars (zip tied bottle cage and standard bottle) and 1 on the frame. That is more than enough to have at one time on the bike.

Would the suggestion be fill one with sports drink and the other with water?

Also, what is the best approach for bottle exchanges on the course?

Watching tons of people either reaching back to make sure their bottles were still there, or ejecting them high in the air over bumps, at Oceanside 70.3, I will never go back to rear mounted anything.  I use a frame bottle with water and an A2 on a stem mount with infinit.  I use a three hour concentrated mix for a HIM, so no bottle change/refill necessary.  Water in downtube cage, replaced at aid stations as needed. 

Easy to sip on the infinit while still in aero, just reach down and grab a sip of water, dump over head/arm coolers  if hot (used it at a Las Vegas tri a couple weeks back, that came in handy)

This setup works perfectly for me.

Aerobars + frame bottle should be good enough, but I don't think the behind-the-saddle carriers are that bad as long as you set them up properly and use a good cage/cages.

I did IM Western Australia last December with a single bottle on the aerobars (the P4 frame bottle was converted for my flat kit).  It was pretty hot out but I did ok.  A 2nd bottle would be insurance in case of a missed handup or whatnot.

Don't most all wind tunnel tests show that BTS is the least aero setup of all (or close to it)?  That's just what I recall reading.  Between that and first hand experience of the bottle carnage, not sure why people continue to do it.  But some pros do, so what do I know?

1 bottle behind the saddle isn't bad (ex: X-Lab Delta Wing).  2 bottles is more drag, and Speedfil is even more as I recall.  And as far as preventing launches, I'll also point to X-Lab cages as the only ones I like behind the saddle.  Worth the cost in this case.

A torpedo bottle on the aero bars is a slight decrease in drag compared to nothing at all.

I do longer hot races with two bottles, one on the down tube and one between the bars. I've tried a regular bottle between the bars, but prefer to have that straw sticking up reminding to take a gulp every few minutes. I've used the PD aero bottle for a number of years, and have been fairly happy with it. This year I gave the speedfil a2 a try. After a few training rides and a HIM, I'll be going back to the PD. Personally, I prefer the way the straw on the PD bottle sits. It may result in a little extra drag, but nothing compared to the position I'll be in after a few hours (sitting up) when it's hot if I don't drink enough.

Judging from what the pros were using in Kona last year, the aerobottle is still pretty popular, but it looks like most have shifted from PD to TorHans.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Tri_Bike_by_brand/Kona_2011_-_Top_15_men_on_the_bike_2416.html

1 bottle straight behind the seat didn't have much of an effect, it's in the slipstream of the rider. How far behind it can be depends on the wind angle (and the rider profile). More head on and the farther out it can be before it's noticeable. Cervelo only tested head on with their data, at least what they showed.

2 bottles does cause some drag. They're too wide to fit behind the rider very well.

When I still used behind the seat, a couple strips of duct tape provided enough extra grip so bottles would stay in. They were still easy to get out as well.

The Speedfil tank has the aerodynamics of a brick. It holds a good deal of water, but has a large drag penalty.

The Speedfill A2 (ChrisM's setup) goes with the torpedo mount and could be rather good. Torpedo mount without had the best wind tunnel numbers, actually helping aerodynamics. But the bottle has to sit in the gap created by the hands and forearms. Outside of that pocket and it creates a bigger Area, so more drag. If the A2 is used, the straw will create drag if it's not tucked in somehow. I can't remember how much off-hand.

All Speedfill options are meant to be refilled. You don't replace them, but refill them on the go.

I think I only see single bottle setups on pros.  Everyone here locally does the double bottle thing.

Yeah, there were some guys on ST debating how to put the A2 straw down.  I can't imagine 3 inches of flexible straw is causing that much of a penalty.  I was talking to the speedfil guys, they said A2 tunnel testing found the torpedo mount the best, but that having it lifted up off the stem actually breaks up the eddy in front of the rider's chest and improves aero slightly.  My A2 on the stem sits right between my arms and behind the hands since I have ski bends.

I also like the stem mount as there is no extra weight on the bars, which affects handling.

I had the frame mount for a few rides but didn't like it. Then again have a friend that's going to kona for the second time, he uses the frame mount

Both A2 and frame mount can be refilled via the flap.  But for HIM not an issue.  I'd have to figure it our for IM....  what I'd probably do is put a second cage on the seat tube, carry 2 three hour infinit bottles (did this at IMAZ) and fill the speedfill with water.

TorHans aerobottle has been aero tested and results are impressive. Google and you can find the testing of it compared to other bottles and methods.

I used it for IMFL and just filled as I went.  It comes with two covers and is well thought out. I have tried many other mounts, bottles, aero bottles (have 5), and like this best. I have both the 20 and 30 so I choose which size to race with based on aid stations, length of race, and weather.

This is my set up for IM...

I tend to see pros use two for long course. One will be a torpedo mount or aero bottle up front. The second will be a frame mount replaced at aid station. Things do vary though and some have the rear cages as well.

If the straw is only ~3" for you, I doubt it causes much either. Just one of those things to look at while we're at it. Making it all tidy if possible.

Did they say anything about how it compares between lifted off the stem vs more forward in the pocket of the forearms? As in attached down in the aerobars? I don't know that aerobar mount would help you as that would be under your forearms, but my pads are right on the basebar (for an example). That's an interesting thought on having it up out actually helping in a way, but I guess I can see that if it's back far enough to be near the chest. I also have a feeling it could be rather rider dependent.

Pro Michi Weiss used the Speedfill tank and was a very strong biker, but that still doesn't mean it was a good decision with regards to aerodynamics.

For long course, you could see about adding a single cage behind if you don't like carrying anything on the frame mount position (or the other nutrition there). Then you can put the aid station bottle there until you're ready to refill instead of rushing before the dump-off point. Have a few types of cages handy for the various types of bottles each race might have and swap it out with what works best. I haven't actually tried that though.

I did Racine last year and it was hella hot.  I mean, wow, hot, humid.  BUT the bike was quite nice.  It was warm when I road but the real heat issues came on the run.  Good news is it won't (probably) be that hot again this year.

I went with 2 bottles.  One torpedo mounted, the other on the downtube, both mixed with 2 scoops of Infinit.  I grabbed a sports drink the last 10 miles and I was quite hydrated.  If you feel comfortable with 2 bottles go for it.  I like to grab a water at aid stations for a quick drink of something non-sports drink then jettison it at the bottle drop. 

I have the A2 and while its a great idea it just doesn't work for my Felt DA set up.  Torhans is working on a redesign of thier aero bottles and that may be what I go with once that is out latter in the summer. 

The guys were down there testing the torpedo mount.   For kicks, they asked if they could test with the bottle on the stem.  They didn't have a mount, so duct taped a cage there.  Not sure of the exact numbers, but they said that the torpedo mount saved "X" watts.  Up behind the forearms and in front of the chest area saved "X" + 4 watts or something like that. 

I haven't seen an extensive test, but:

a) drag every 15 mins or so when you take a drink vs. continuous drag
b) slightly faster handups at aid stations, since you're not refilling a profile bottle
c) at least for IM distance, few people can ride in aero the entire way anyhow

It's really nitpicky though and the differences are minor.  The torpedo setup is nice because of no splashover; on the other hand the profile bottle gives a little more room for your bike computer placement.