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2012-05-10 7:19 PM

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Subject: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?

Did anyone else see this story?  Totally pi**ed me off!  

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/viewing-child-pornography-not-crime-according-york-court-165025919.html

According to the law in New York, "it is illegal to create, possess, distribute, promote or facilitate child pornography."

The appeals court ruled that "Merely viewing Web images of child pornography does not, absent other proof, constitute either possession or procurement".  

Is it just me, or did the judges focus on the wrong words of the law?  While just viewing does not "constitute either possession or procurement" - does it not constitute facilitating child porn? 

One definition of facilitate is "to make easier or less difficult".  Does viewing then not facilitate child porn because if no one viewed it, there would be no market for it?  

I know that you can not get rid of it entirely, we can't control what happens in other countries, but I fear that making it "legal" to view just opened up the flood gates.  

I sure hope the state of New York has some type of emergency session to update the law and add the word "viewing" to it.  

Just fricking ridiculous.  



Edited by Muskrat37 2012-05-10 7:21 PM


2012-05-10 7:21 PM
in reply to: #4203534

Master
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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Wha??? 
2012-05-10 7:32 PM
in reply to: #4203534

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Think about it, please.

Have you ever had a site start popping up porn because you clicked on the wrong link?
Have you ever had your computer hijacked with some malware so all website addresses send you to a porn site?
Have you ever been sent a porn email?

There are a handful of other ways that could very well be the person had no intention of viewing CP but those are ones I've run across.

You cannot prove intent if all the pics/movies are in the internet cache of the browser. Without intent there is no crime.

People who are into this stuff don't have pics only in their caches. They've downloaded pics, they've written email, etc.

Be really careful what you wish the law said and think about it next time something comes up in your browser that you didn't intend to view. It might very well be you that ends up on the wrong side of your outrage.

2012-05-10 7:43 PM
in reply to: #4203534

Master
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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
I can safely say child porn has never popped up on my computer.  I don't believe that is something people don't have to look for and just shows up.
2012-05-10 8:07 PM
in reply to: #4203534

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?

I work on the computer all day.. (build websites for a living) and have done so for the last 2 years and I can honestly say that I have never had porn start popping up on my computer.

The only way porn get's on your computer is if YOU (or someone else) went to a porn site.  If you clicked a link in an email and went to a porn site, you may suddenly find more emails coming to you, a virus was planted or something to that effect, but the key here is that the initial action came from YOU.  It doesn't magically start happening.

If it is a virus that caused it, and you didn't want the porn to be on your computer, most normal people would run a virus scan and eliminate it right away. 

The law we are discussing is specifically related to CHILD PORN, not regular porn.  

2012-05-10 8:07 PM
in reply to: #4203558

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?

tricrazy - 2012-05-10 5:43 PM I can safely say child porn has never popped up on my computer.  I don't believe that is something people don't have to look for and just shows up.

Agreed



2012-05-10 8:31 PM
in reply to: #4203594

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 9:07 PM

I work on the computer all day.. (build websites for a living) and have done so for the last 2 years and I can honestly say that I have never had porn start popping up on my computer.

The only way porn get's on your computer is if YOU (or someone else) went to a porn site.  If you clicked a link in an email and went to a porn site, you may suddenly find more emails coming to you, a virus was planted or something to that effect, but the key here is that the initial action came from YOU.  It doesn't magically start happening.

If it is a virus that caused it, and you didn't want the porn to be on your computer, most normal people would run a virus scan and eliminate it right away. 

The law we are discussing is specifically related to CHILD PORN, not regular porn.  



I do computer investigations, computer forensics, for a well known law enforcement agency. I'll bet I've got a better handle on making a case than most as along the lines of 80 or 90% of our cases are CP.

I completely agree with the ruling.

2012-05-10 9:24 PM
in reply to: #4203534

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
They're mincing words here.  What a bunch of
*STRONGLY EDITED*
2012-05-10 9:25 PM
in reply to: #4203594

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 9:07 PM

I work on the computer all day.. (build websites for a living) and have done so for the last 2 years and I can honestly say that I have never had porn start popping up on my computer.

The only way porn get's on your computer is if YOU (or someone else) went to a porn site.  If you clicked a link in an email and went to a porn site, you may suddenly find more emails coming to you, a virus was planted or something to that effect, but the key here is that the initial action came from YOU.  It doesn't magically start happening.

True.  However adult pornography is legal.  As you have stated you can get a browser hijack or virus.  From there you have no idea what can appear.  So someone who maybe be viewing 100% legal adult images may, by no malicious intent, end up with illegal images on their computer.

Another possibility.  You get a spam email.  You click on a link, maybe even accidently.  The link is to CP and you immediately close it, of course.  Guess what, that image is still on your machine.  You think you should go to jail for that?

Likely? No.  Possible? Yes.

I'm not necessarily defending the judgment (I despise the concept of CP) but there are plenty of cases of this sort of thing happening.

2012-05-10 9:32 PM
in reply to: #4203596

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 9:07 PM

tricrazy - 2012-05-10 5:43 PM I can safely say child porn has never popped up on my computer.  I don't believe that is something people don't have to look for and just shows up.

Agreed

You can believe it all you want, but that doesn't make it true.

Regardless of how it happens, if you did not intend to have CP on your computer but it somehow ends up there, you want this law backing you up.  Laws are in place to protect the innocent, not punish the guilty.

2012-05-10 10:04 PM
in reply to: #4203534

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
The important phrase there is "absent other proof".  As pointed out above, people who are into CP will have plenty of other evidence to convict them.


2012-05-10 10:38 PM
in reply to: #4203624

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
DanielG - 2012-05-10 8:31 PM
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 9:07 PM

I work on the computer all day.. (build websites for a living) and have done so for the last 2 years and I can honestly say that I have never had porn start popping up on my computer.

The only way porn get's on your computer is if YOU (or someone else) went to a porn site.  If you clicked a link in an email and went to a porn site, you may suddenly find more emails coming to you, a virus was planted or something to that effect, but the key here is that the initial action came from YOU.  It doesn't magically start happening.

If it is a virus that caused it, and you didn't want the porn to be on your computer, most normal people would run a virus scan and eliminate it right away. 

The law we are discussing is specifically related to CHILD PORN, not regular porn.  

I do computer investigations, computer forensics, for a well known law enforcement agency. I'll bet I've got a better handle on making a case than most as along the lines of 80 or 90% of our cases are CP. I completely agree with the ruling.

I completely agree as well.

2012-05-10 10:42 PM
in reply to: #4203596

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 8:07 PM

tricrazy - 2012-05-10 5:43 PM I can safely say child porn has never popped up on my computer.  I don't believe that is something people don't have to look for and just shows up.

Agreed



I'm only going to say that I know without a doubt from first hand experience that both posts are just not correct. I was actually shocked and appalled how easily this stuff can show up.

Here's the short version of the story:
When my dd (who is now 20) was in the third grade she was at school doing research for a religion paper. She was on a school classroom computer and on the school's internet account. This is a Catholic grammar school so heavily protected computers. Lots of safe guards and controls in place. She was doing a paper on a chosen Saint. When she did her research she very innocently googled Saint Claire. She started clicking the links that came up and one of them was horrific at best description. She immediately called the teacher over and showed her the "nasty pictures" that came up. She was 8 years old. The site that came up was so atrocious that my husband and I were called to the school immediately. The principal was as horrified as we were and No One could figure out how the site got past all the safeguards. We were called because the school knew/felt that as parents we needed to know what our child had been exposed to. I was heartbroken at what my child had seen even though she really didn't know what exactly it was. All I will say is she kept asking me why the naked man was trying to sleep on top the little girl. A huge investigation was done, and no one ever could figure out how
that site got through. That computer then had virus issues and eventually was removed and replaced. My best friend is a computer engineer and at my request and the school's approval he went all through that computer. He checked through and through and nothing was found that had been previously viewed or downloaded to have brought the virus in. Nothing.

It was not sought after or looked for or anything else.

Now I'm not saying that I agree with the law or not. I honestly don't know enough about it to comment. And I firmly believe that anything intentional to do with cp- viewing, soliciting, etc. should be totally illegal and the guilty party should be put under the jail. But I do know that this stuff can and does pop up unsolicited. It's scary to me actually.

Shelly
2012-05-10 11:14 PM
in reply to: #4203534

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?

Pump the brakes a little.

Not defending anything here, but people really should read the actual opinion.  First off, the guy was convicted on some 140 counts that were upheld.  Two of the counts reversed did not make "facilitating" illegal.  It was for knowingly promoting or possessing CP.  The ruling stated that images in a cache, without more, are not proof of a knowing violation of promoting or possessing.  They may be evidence of possession of the other images, such as jpegs.  But only two counts were ovetturned (out of 143)

2012-05-10 11:27 PM
in reply to: #4203624

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
DanielG - 2012-05-10 6:31 PM
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 9:07 PM

I work on the computer all day.. (build websites for a living) and have done so for the last 2 years and I can honestly say that I have never had porn start popping up on my computer.

The only way porn get's on your computer is if YOU (or someone else) went to a porn site.  If you clicked a link in an email and went to a porn site, you may suddenly find more emails coming to you, a virus was planted or something to that effect, but the key here is that the initial action came from YOU.  It doesn't magically start happening.

If it is a virus that caused it, and you didn't want the porn to be on your computer, most normal people would run a virus scan and eliminate it right away. 

The law we are discussing is specifically related to CHILD PORN, not regular porn.  

I do computer investigations, computer forensics, for a well known law enforcement agency. I'll bet I've got a better handle on making a case than most as along the lines of 80 or 90% of our cases are CP. I completely agree with the ruling.

Your credentials definitely far exceed mine.  I acknowledge my ignorance when it comes to computer forensics.  I am wondering a couple of things.  1) is there not a way to tell if an image in the cache is the result of a click, or if it was a virus that spread through the computer?  2) Out of all the cases you guys make and 80-90% are Child Porn - how many of those are "accidental". When I say "accidental" I don't mean that some lawyer found a loop hole.  I mean, how many were truly an accident?  

I just can't see how CP show's up on a computer unwanted.  I get all the spammy porno emails and viagra etc....but I have never, ever been spammed for CP.  It's hard to believe that anyone distributing this type of material would send "spam" to anonymous people as the % of the population that views this material has to be pretty low, and of those that would like to view it, I would think the fear of falling into a trap by following up on unsolicited email to CP would scare off even more.  

Thanks for your insight.  

2012-05-10 11:33 PM
in reply to: #4203801

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
fitmomma2010 - 2012-05-10 8:42 PM
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 8:07 PM

tricrazy - 2012-05-10 5:43 PM I can safely say child porn has never popped up on my computer.  I don't believe that is something people don't have to look for and just shows up.

Agreed

I'm only going to say that I know without a doubt from first hand experience that both posts are just not correct. I was actually shocked and appalled how easily this stuff can show up. Here's the short version of the story: When my dd (who is now 20) was in the third grade she was at school doing research for a religion paper. She was on a school classroom computer and on the school's internet account. This is a Catholic grammar school so heavily protected computers. Lots of safe guards and controls in place. She was doing a paper on a chosen Saint. When she did her research she very innocently googled Saint Claire. She started clicking the links that came up and one of them was horrific at best description. She immediately called the teacher over and showed her the "nasty pictures" that came up. She was 8 years old. The site that came up was so atrocious that my husband and I were called to the school immediately. The principal was as horrified as we were and No One could figure out how the site got past all the safeguards. We were called because the school knew/felt that as parents we needed to know what our child had been exposed to. I was heartbroken at what my child had seen even though she really didn't know what exactly it was. All I will say is she kept asking me why the naked man was trying to sleep on top the little girl. A huge investigation was done, and no one ever could figure out how that site got through. That computer then had virus issues and eventually was removed and replaced. My best friend is a computer engineer and at my request and the school's approval he went all through that computer. He checked through and through and nothing was found that had been previously viewed or downloaded to have brought the virus in. Nothing. It was not sought after or looked for or anything else. Now I'm not saying that I agree with the law or not. I honestly don't know enough about it to comment. And I firmly believe that anything intentional to do with cp- viewing, soliciting, etc. should be totally illegal and the guilty party should be put under the jail. But I do know that this stuff can and does pop up unsolicited. It's scary to me actually. Shelly

That is a horrible story, and I would also have been appalled.  I don't doubt that it happened, nor your account, but I have to say - CP does not "easily" show up on computers for normal searches. Regular, legal porn does not "easily" show up on a computer.  If CP "easily" showed up - it would be everywhere, and we would all have stories similar to yours.  

Again - not doubting you or your story. 



2012-05-10 11:37 PM
in reply to: #4203829

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
ChrisM - 2012-05-10 9:14 PM

Pump the brakes a little.

Not defending anything here, but people really should read the actual opinion.  First off, the guy was convicted on some 140 counts that were upheld.  Two of the counts reversed did not make "facilitating" illegal.  It was for knowingly promoting or possessing CP.  The ruling stated that images in a cache, without more, are not proof of a knowing violation of promoting or possessing.  They may be evidence of possession of the other images, such as jpegs.  But only two counts were ovetturned (out of 143)

The scary part is that because of this ruling, if I lived in New York, I could watch child porn right now, and as long as I didn't download or save it on my computer - there is nothing anyone could do about it.  It is my belief that this "freedom" to view CP "facilitates" the industry, and therefore, according to the current law on the books should be illegal.   

2012-05-10 11:49 PM
in reply to: #4203534

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?

I've been in Law Enforcement for 26 years.  Someone show me a case....ONE CASE, where CP showed up on someone's computer by "accident" and they were convicted.  It DOES NOT happen.

In the case before the court, the defendant downloaded hundreds of images of CP......since his IP addy is easily identified by CP providers, it's surely possible that he was sent images he didn't download, but merely looked at.  Does that make him innocent? Hardly.

DanielG - I respect your opinion like I do everyone's who is in Law Enforcement and does a good job....but you are wrong in this case.  I'm sorry, where there is smoke, there is fire when it comes to CP.....that's just no longer arguable in the face of all we have come to know about pedophiles.

Our society still wants to believe mistakes are made in these cases......but we can't point to any. And IF we are to error, it's about time we did so on the side of children.....we'll be wrong much less than we have been....as the Catholic Church.

IF this court wanted to tighten up the laws, fine.....I agree.  But to write, "viewing child porn is no longer illegal in New York" is absolutely irresponsible.  You CAN'T change my mind.

2012-05-10 11:53 PM
in reply to: #4203846

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 9:37 PM
ChrisM - 2012-05-10 9:14 PM

Pump the brakes a little.

Not defending anything here, but people really should read the actual opinion.  First off, the guy was convicted on some 140 counts that were upheld.  Two of the counts reversed did not make "facilitating" illegal.  It was for knowingly promoting or possessing CP.  The ruling stated that images in a cache, without more, are not proof of a knowing violation of promoting or possessing.  They may be evidence of possession of the other images, such as jpegs.  But only two counts were ovetturned (out of 143)

The scary part is that because of this ruling, if I lived in New York, I could watch child porn right now, and as long as I didn't download or save it on my computer - there is nothing anyone could do about it.  It is my belief that this "freedom" to view CP "facilitates" the industry, and therefore, according to the current law on the books should be illegal.   

I agree, but you adopted the internet authors' interpretation of the law, rather than the actual opinion.  Read the opinion.  Read the actual statutes.  Your issue should really be with the NY legislature. It does not appear to be illegal to view CP under NY statutes (haven't researched all of them).  Same was true as recently as 2011 or so at least in Oregon and Kentucky.

I don't think you've read what the current law on the books says.  You an google it, I just read it.

It is not illegal to "facilitate" CP.  Which is why you need to actually read the law and see how it defines "facilitating," and lobby the legislature (if you live in a jurisdiction where viewing is not illegal )to change the law.  But you can't ask judges to make or apply laws that do not exist.

So as not to hide the ball, the only place where the word "facilitate" appears is as follows:  " 1. A person is guilty of facilitating a sexual performance by a child with a controlled substance or alcohol when he or she:...."

BTW, and again if people read the actual opinion, this guy did not get any CP by accident

And another BTW, sorry, the whole "it is now legal to..." is not a part of the majority's opinion, it is a part of the dissent that characterizes the majority opinion that way.   I understand the effect is the same, but you cannot say that the court held "it is now legal to..."  because the court (majority) did not say that



Edited by ChrisM 2012-05-11 12:00 AM
2012-05-10 11:58 PM
in reply to: #4203801

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
fitmomma2010 - 2012-05-10 10:42 PM
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-10 8:07 PM

tricrazy - 2012-05-10 5:43 PM I can safely say child porn has never popped up on my computer.  I don't believe that is something people don't have to look for and just shows up.

Agreed

I'm only going to say that I know without a doubt from first hand experience that both posts are just not correct. I was actually shocked and appalled how easily this stuff can show up. Here's the short version of the story: When my dd (who is now 20) was in the third grade she was at school doing research for a religion paper. She was on a school classroom computer and on the school's internet account. This is a Catholic grammar school so heavily protected computers. Lots of safe guards and controls in place. She was doing a paper on a chosen Saint. When she did her research she very innocently googled Saint Claire. She started clicking the links that came up and one of them was horrific at best description. She immediately called the teacher over and showed her the "nasty pictures" that came up. She was 8 years old. The site that came up was so atrocious that my husband and I were called to the school immediately. The principal was as horrified as we were and No One could figure out how the site got past all the safeguards. We were called because the school knew/felt that as parents we needed to know what our child had been exposed to. I was heartbroken at what my child had seen even though she really didn't know what exactly it was. All I will say is she kept asking me why the naked man was trying to sleep on top the little girl. A huge investigation was done, and no one ever could figure out how that site got through. That computer then had virus issues and eventually was removed and replaced. My best friend is a computer engineer and at my request and the school's approval he went all through that computer. He checked through and through and nothing was found that had been previously viewed or downloaded to have brought the virus in. Nothing. It was not sought after or looked for or anything else. Now I'm not saying that I agree with the law or not. I honestly don't know enough about it to comment. And I firmly believe that anything intentional to do with cp- viewing, soliciting, etc. should be totally illegal and the guilty party should be put under the jail. But I do know that this stuff can and does pop up unsolicited. It's scary to me actually. Shelly

 

She was using a computer that many had access to......not the same for the case in front of this court.  

I'm very sorry that happened to your daughter....it doesn't surprise me that it was on a computer in a Catholic School.....the Catholic Church has covered pedophiles for decades.  Again, you can't change my opinion.....I've seen too much.

Again, I want to make sure you understand that my heart goes out to you and your daughter.....it's absolutely reprehensible.....but I know who's at fault.

2012-05-11 12:03 AM
in reply to: #4203534

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?

 "It does not appear to be illegal to view CP under NY statutes"

 

Only if you believe that CP just flies onto your computer and you don't have to do anything to make it happen.  As the court said in it's opinion....."passively viewing".....would someone please explain that to me?  I don't "passively view" anything on my computer....and neither do any of you.

The law states that "procurement" of child porn is illegal.  If you are viewing it, you have "procured" it....because it didn't just appear out of nowhere.  This is really easy. 



2012-05-11 12:04 AM
in reply to: #4203850

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Left Brain - 2012-05-10 9:49 PM

I've been in Law Enforcement for 26 years.  Someone show me a case....ONE CASE, where CP showed up on someone's computer by "accident" and they were convicted.  It DOES NOT happen.

In the case before the court, the defendant downloaded hundreds of images of CP......since his IP addy is easily identified by CP providers, it's surely possible that he was sent images he didn't download, but merely looked at.  Does that make him innocent? Hardly.

DanielG - I respect your opinion like I do everyone's who is in Law Enforcement and does a good job....but you are wrong in this case.  I'm sorry, where there is smoke, there is fire when it comes to CP.....that's just no longer arguable in the face of all we have come to know about pedophiles.

Our society still wants to believe mistakes are made in these cases......but we can't point to any. And IF we are to error, it's about time we did so on the side of children.....we'll be wrong much less than we have been....as the Catholic Church.

IF this court wanted to tighten up the laws, fine.....I agree.  But to write, "viewing child porn is no longer illegal in New York" is absolutely irresponsible.  You CAN'T change my mind.

I can't believe a judge would actually write those words down and I still can't see how they don't think that just viewing CP "facilitates" it.  

2012-05-11 12:12 AM
in reply to: #4203861

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?

IF this court wanted to tighten up the laws, fine.....I agree.  But to write, "viewing child porn is no longer illegal in New York" is absolutely irresponsible.  You CAN'T change my mind.

_________

I can't believe a judge would actually write those words down and I still can't see how they don't think that just viewing CP "facilitates" it.  

The judge did not write that as the ruling.  The dissent characterized the majority opinion like this.  It is not the court's holding.  Maybe read the opinion?  Have I heard that before?

If the law does not actually make something illegal, you think the court should go ahead and find it illegal anyway? 



Edited by ChrisM 2012-05-11 12:12 AM
2012-05-11 12:22 AM
in reply to: #4203861

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
Muskrat37 - 2012-05-11 12:04 AM
Left Brain - 2012-05-10 9:49 PM

I've been in Law Enforcement for 26 years.  Someone show me a case....ONE CASE, where CP showed up on someone's computer by "accident" and they were convicted.  It DOES NOT happen.

In the case before the court, the defendant downloaded hundreds of images of CP......since his IP addy is easily identified by CP providers, it's surely possible that he was sent images he didn't download, but merely looked at.  Does that make him innocent? Hardly.

DanielG - I respect your opinion like I do everyone's who is in Law Enforcement and does a good job....but you are wrong in this case.  I'm sorry, where there is smoke, there is fire when it comes to CP.....that's just no longer arguable in the face of all we have come to know about pedophiles.

Our society still wants to believe mistakes are made in these cases......but we can't point to any. And IF we are to error, it's about time we did so on the side of children.....we'll be wrong much less than we have been....as the Catholic Church.

IF this court wanted to tighten up the laws, fine.....I agree.  But to write, "viewing child porn is no longer illegal in New York" is absolutely irresponsible.  You CAN'T change my mind.

I can't believe a judge would actually write those words down and I still can't see how they don't think that just viewing CP "facilitates" it.  

 

Of course, you get it.  We can no longer, as a society, believe adults when it comes to the abuse of our children.....OUR CHILDREN ARE NOT LYING.......THE ADULTS ARE!

I'll be happy to write about my experience investigating child sex abusers......but nobody really wants to hear it......including me.

I'm happy that New York will tighten up their laws....but this case was not the one to do it over.

The defendant in this case didn't view ANYTHING by "passively viewing"......"passively viewing" CP is not possible.  

I'm telling you....NEVER believe an an adult over a child in a case of child abuse/porn....again, our kids are NOT lying, the adults are. 

2012-05-11 12:26 AM
in reply to: #4203864

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Subject: RE: Legal to watch Child Porn in New York - WTF?
ChrisM - 2012-05-11 12:12 AM

IF this court wanted to tighten up the laws, fine.....I agree.  But to write, "viewing child porn is no longer illegal in New York" is absolutely irresponsible.  You CAN'T change my mind.

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I can't believe a judge would actually write those words down and I still can't see how they don't think that just viewing CP "facilitates" it.  

The judge did not write that as the ruling.  The dissent characterized the majority opinion like this.  It is not the court's holding.  Maybe read the opinion?  Have I heard that before?

If the law does not actually make something illegal, you think the court should go ahead and find it illegal anyway? 

 

Chris, the law DOES make it illegal!  The law makes the "possession or procurement" of CP illegal.  As I've already stated.....you can't PROCURE CP by "passively viewing" it?(the court used that term)  And the ruling certainly did use those words.  PASSIVELY VIEWING is not possible. Everyone who uses a computer knows this.  If you view CP....you HAVE procured it....but it's OK if you don't download it?  This court got it wrong in THIS case.



Edited by Left Brain 2012-05-11 12:45 AM
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