General Discussion Triathlon Talk » First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :) Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2006-05-31 7:20 PM

User image

Regular
86
252525
Quincy, MA.
Subject: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
I'm still working on my nutrition is the object to eat as many gels and drink as much gatorade as your stomach will handle? I was doing a run and successfully ate 2 gels and my body was wanting more but I didn't bring any others. On the bike I was averaging a gel about every 25 minutes. I think my goal will be for the closing weeks to try to train with what will be on the course, it apears to be gu and gatorade endurance which i have not seen sold at any store I have been in so far.

Could some people please write how often you are eating a gel or whatever else you do just to get an idea of what I should be looking to do I understand everyones nutrition needs are different but if I get a little feedback it may be helpful.

Also for a bike gear for Lake Placid I'm pretty certain I use a 12/21 (does that sound right?)
will I make it on the hills or should I look at a little easier gearing to make sure I'm seated comfortably for the climbs. what gears are people using Input please.












2006-05-31 8:51 PM
in reply to: #439782

Champion
8903
500020001000500100100100100
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)

For the bike gear part of things, I'm using a 12/23 which is what I used last year.  I tend to stand up a lot on climbs.  I only recall dropping into the 23 cog at one spot on the 2nd lap, when you tend to be a bit more tired.  I'm pretty sure I could have easily done it all on the 21.  There are no abnormally steep climbs, the worst one is Papa Bear which you'll hit a few miles before the end of each lap, just before the right hand turn onto Northwoods Rd.

I've tried a bottle of Gatorade Endurance.  It appears to be a bit more available in New Hampshire than here in MA.  To me the taste is a bit "heavier" than regular Gatorade, so yeah, you might want to give it a shot first if you can.  Aid stations at LP will be passing out bottles of both Gatorade and water.  I use both Gatorade and Gu religiously in my training and have no issues with either.

As far as amounts, everyone tolerates it differently.  On training runs/rides I tend to take a Gu about every 45 minutes, though sometimes drop it down to 30 minutes on a hard 2-3 hr run.  I chase it down with a bit of Gatorade (full strength).  That might be a bit more carbs than some people can stand.  I pretty much have a cast iron stomach and am able to run on a full solid meal.  I plan to supplement the LP aid station handouts with solid food of my own, i.e. peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (1 per lap on the bike, 1 on the run), bananas (bring your own...last year they were so green and raw they were inedible), energy bars, and Endurolyte tablets for electrolyte replacement.

See you there...bald headed guy with Ironman tattoo and mermaid tatto on left arm (plus a few others).

 



Edited by max 2006-05-31 8:55 PM
2006-06-01 6:50 AM
in reply to: #439782

User image

Member
50
2525
Virginia Beach
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
300-400 calories per hour
2006-06-01 8:25 AM
in reply to: #439782

User image

Elite
3088
20001000252525
Austin, TX
Gold member
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
You should practice this and have it down before race day. You'll probably be able to take in somewhere between 300-400 calories per hour. However, pay attention to the concentration of the carbs as well. Your stomach absorbs carbs best at a concentration of about 6-8% (60-80 grams of carbs per liter). Gatorade is already at this concentration, so if you add a gel, you need to take about 8 ounces of water with it to keep the concentration correct.

I learned this the hard way last year at my 1/2. I took nothing by Gatorade and gels and couldn't even think about any more nutrition by the time I got on the run. I paid for it.
2006-06-01 8:33 AM
in reply to: #439821

User image

Extreme Veteran
471
1001001001002525
Northern Virginia
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
I only recall dropping into the 23 cog at one spot on the 2nd lap, when you tend to be a bit more tired. I'm pretty sure I could have easily done it all on the 21. There are no abnormally steep climbs, the worst one is Papa Bear


damn max! is that with a standard 53/39 double on the front? you are obviously a strong climber to easily do placid on a 21. that would fry my legs.
it really depends on how strong of a rider you are and what your riding style is. if standing and blasting up hills don't effect your run, there is no reason you can't make it using a 12/21. we rode the course last weekend and max is right about the climbs. none of them are particularly steep (although i found big cherry worse than papa bear), but there are plenty of them and some are long. if you can afford it and prefer to spin more, i recommend a compact (50/36) double on the front and a 12/23 or 12/25 cassette. it doesn't really hurt your top end (i don't spin out until 40+mph) and helps a lot on the hills.

here is a calculator you can use to estimate how much a different gear combo would help:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
2006-06-01 2:43 PM
in reply to: #439782

User image

The Original
7834
5000200050010010010025
Raleigh/Durham
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)

Only 300-400 calories during the bike?  For some reason I thought it was much more than that?  Where do those numbers come from- just curious.



2006-06-01 8:40 PM
in reply to: #439821

User image

Regular
86
252525
Quincy, MA.
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
thanks I'm bald (recently) no tatoos(yet) bay state tri team also team ironman only way for me to get in for this year
I appreciate the info
2006-06-01 8:42 PM
in reply to: #440076

User image

Regular
86
252525
Quincy, MA.
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
when I'm training I have been using gels (hammergels) I will switch to gu now hopefully find a yummy flavor when It's cool I seem to consume gatorade after the gel not really craving water when its warmer I kind've crave water after.
2006-06-01 11:29 PM
in reply to: #439782

User image


8763
5000200010005001001002525
Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)

sp1173 - 2006-05-31 5:20 PM I'm still working on my nutrition is the object to eat as many gels and drink as much gatorade as your stomach will handle? I was doing a run and successfully ate 2 gels and my body was wanting more but I didn't bring any others. On the bike I was averaging a gel about every 25 minutes. I think my goal will be for the closing weeks to try to train with what will be on the course, it apears to be gu and gatorade endurance which i have not seen sold at any store I have been in so far. Could some people please write how often you are eating a gel or whatever else you do just to get an idea of what I should be looking to do I understand everyones nutrition needs are different but if I get a little feedback it may be helpful. Also for a bike gear for Lake Placid I'm pretty certain I use a 12/21 (does that sound right?) will I make it on the hills or should I look at a little easier gearing to make sure I'm seated comfortably for the climbs. what gears are people using Input please.

What do you weigh? What are you using/doing in training now? Typically about 300-400 cals per hour. This is trial/error in training unless you can get a Fuel Test done like they do here in Boulder. They will tell you exactly how much you burn and what you burn mostly (fat or cho).

On the hills, I used a 12x27 - and I bike just over 6 hours pretty casually. My run split was 3:47. So - you can use a 12x21 or a 12x23 but I would be willing to bet unless you are VERY strong, and you bike 5:30 or better, your legs will be barking at you at about mile 18 for not using a 25 or 27. Good luck!

2006-06-02 7:59 AM
in reply to: #439782

User image

Master
1557
10005002525
Maine
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)

Lake Placid will also be my first IM. Getting all your calories from gels makes for an unholy amount of gels that you will have to eat. I've been trying out perpetuem, you might want to look into something like that.

I'm set up with a compact crank 50/34 and 12-25 cassette which seems to be working well for the hills of Maine and NH. When I had the standard crank I was doing way too much standing to climb and it was killing me on the long rides.

2006-06-02 9:02 PM
in reply to: #441060

User image

Extreme Veteran
471
1001001001002525
Maryland
Subject: Standard Crank?
Standard crank is what...? I have never paid much attention to the gear ratio.

I have a CerveloP2k (imagine that) with "stock" gears.

53/40 12/25? Does that sound possible?



2006-06-02 9:12 PM
in reply to: #439782

User image

Extreme Veteran
471
1001001001002525
Maryland
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
Well, this will be my first IM, second one I have trained for. I managed to get into IM LP as IM NZ was cancelled and the race director ust have felt responsible for the huge outcry at the cancellation race morning.

Anyhow,

I use GU and gatorade all the time.

For the IM training, I have this regimen, which I have refined on rides, runs, and a few 1/2 IM:

Start the bike, right off, GU, Gatorade (little more than a sip), water. 30 minutes, e-lyte pill, 60 minutes, GU, 1H30M PB&J (mashed up, wheat bread). My last Gu on the bike is Espresso Love. I start the run and GU every 5 miles, last two GUs being Espresso Love. E-lyte pill every 45 minutes. Water, gatorade if my stomach can handle. (My biking Gatorade mix is about 6x the recommended for a proper mix. This is how I make it last the whole ride.)

3 PB&Js (take 4), 11 GUs, 12 e-lyte pills, and my gatorade mix. So far, I think it is working out. I vary this only slightly, and usually if I vary anything it is to take a few less e-lyte pills.

See you at LP.
2006-06-05 10:25 AM
in reply to: #441956

User image

Extreme Veteran
471
1001001001002525
Northern Virginia
Subject: RE: Standard Crank?
a standard crank is 53/39. that is probably what came on the p2k.
2006-06-20 5:03 PM
in reply to: #440941

User image

Regular
86
252525
Quincy, MA.
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
I weigh 155
I have been eating 1 gu every 18-20 minutes and 1 bike bottle full of endurance formula gatorade every 1/2 hour pretty much for my current training rides on a computrainer.

I did a run this morning it was warm here in MA. I weighed myself before and after and had a difference of almost 4.5 lbs I did run out of fluid toward the end and found a couple people watering their lawns to fill my fuel belt bottles but only water and gu no gatorade for the last 1/2 hour or so

my run was about 19 miles and for the first time my knees had no pain thank god
last week my long run at about 19 miles my knee caps felt like they were going to fall off just like every other long run I did before that. So either I wore away all my cartiledge(did I spell that right?) or my body is adapting
thanks for your time I have to see how many calories are in a bottle of endurance formula but 3 gels per hour is about 300 so I must be closer to 400

thanks for your time
2006-06-20 5:07 PM
in reply to: #441959

User image

Regular
86
252525
Quincy, MA.
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
thanks for your menu

I haven't trained with any pills are those salt tablets or just electrolytes (or is that one and the same?)
2006-06-20 8:52 PM
in reply to: #460874

User image

Extreme Veteran
471
1001001001002525
Maryland
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
I think they are one in the same. Salt tabs have done wonders -- keep the cramps away from the legs big time.


2006-06-27 8:36 PM
in reply to: #439782


1

Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
LP 06 will also be my 1st IM. I'm also trying to figure out fuel/hydration strategy. I've been experimenting w/ Perpetuem & I am considering using it, maybe w/ a few gels, during bike leg. The mfgr. does not recommend using it w/ a "sports drink". Do experienced Perpetuem users agree with this? I would prefer to hydrate w/ gatorade on the bike & then probably gatorade/cola on the run.
2006-06-28 8:13 AM
in reply to: #439782

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)

After doing a mini training camp at LP with my coach and friends a few weeks ago, I wrote a summary of the full racing course for the guys I am training for LP. I saw this thread and I am throwing it here hoping it will help those who can’t do the course before the race and/or share a few insights for the 1st timers…

Swim course: The Lake is beautiful, with decent visibility and pretty simple in terms of navigation. I guess that last Sat the water temp was around mid 60s and while swimming the 2nd loop in a full wetsuit I was getting a bit hot. The lake might warm up more before the race and for those expecting to swim longer than 1:15ish hrs it “might” be a good idea to consider a sleeveless suit as you’ll be spending a longer time in the lake and it might dehydrate you a bit. If going with a full suit that’s fine, just make sure to get plenty fluids before the start and begin replenishing fluid right out of T1 and you’ll be fine. Since it will be a 2 loop swim and the lake isn’t that big, my guess is that the draft will be huge and it will help a lot so practice to get comfortable swimming in packs because that will give you a big advantage and knock down several minutes of your swim time.

Bike course: The whole course is just beautiful and even though there are a few rough spots on the road in general it is in top condition. Right out of what will be T1 you’ll go down Mill pond and then hit right onto 73. This is basically down hill with a few rollers. You keep going with a few moderate climbs, pass that and you’ll have a nice long decent (5-6 miles) This will be a good portion to tag along, coast and enjoy the ride while making up some time for the rest of the loop.  If you are not confident about your descending skills I would strongly suggest you to work on it before LP because it will help a lot (you can coast at 45-50 mph). Also be careful as in this portion it might be a bit dangerous when descending with less skilled riders aside you. At the bottom, you turn onto 9N into Keane. This section has some rolling hills but mostly it is a fast section.  Whatever you do, DO NOT surrender into the temptation of pushing more than you should. In the 1st loop you’ll probably be feeling very good and strong and it might be a deceiving trigger to push harder than you should and waste precious energy that you WILL need for the second loop and run. This is a great portion to eat, take gels/bars. After this portion, you pass Jay and further up you’ll take a left onto 86. Here you have a steady 3 mile climb. IMO this a hard one and it will be another deceiving place for the hammer heads to blow up. Again, do not succumb to temptation and just spin up the hills as easy as possible. (DO NOT look at your speed because it might discourage you or make you accelerate, and YES you will be going slowly: like 10 mph or less)
Then you’ll get to the out and back (7 miles in/out at Haselton Rd) This portion should also be a fast portion so be smart, ride at your pace and continue to work on nutrition in particular on the way back to set your energy up for the rougher section of the course back into town. When heading back you’ll be riding back to LP heading to Whiteface Mountain. In this section the scenery is just beautiful and that might help you to keep your mind entertain. There is a steady climb with a few rollers (10+ miles I think) and in this section seems it is usually windy making it more challenging. Just work your way through it and spin up as much as possible, coast and don’t forget to work on your nutrition. Continue to be VERY patient and do not hammer at any point. Remember that once you get back into town you have to do it AGAIN. As my coach says: “it is all about the run” and for IMLP I think that statement should be x2! If I was racing LP, I would probably set up limits for my HR/watts that I would never let myself pass. (i.e. certain HR/watts for flats, hills and my target avg for the whole ride) I would SPIN any steep/long hill and COAST once I would hit 28mph any time possible. Even on the flats when you can roll at 22+mph easily I would hesitate to do so unless it is within my range/pace/HR/watts stategy. Finally, you can’t afford make any nutrition or pace mistakes at all in this course, so whatever it is your drinking/eating plan stick with it and get your self set up for the run… I consider myself ok rider but a good runner so I would def consider riding a 12/25 or 27 cassette 53/39 combo to spin at higher cadence all the hills and save precious energy for the run. >>> Data for the day - 111 miles, 5:59 hrs, avg 18.5 mph, 155 avg watts, NP 179, 69% of FTP, 93 rpm, AHR 143 bpm. I rode 90 miles at below IM pace (easy/steady) and 21 miles at IM pace (steady), and we stop 2 times to refuel even though 3 would have been better.

Run course: Wow, what can I tell about the running course… maybe this is a good moment to let you know that I think you guys are totally nuts for choosing IMLP
This portion will be very challenging because you’ll run a couple long down hills and 2 long/steep climbs TWO TIMES. If your running form is not the best and you hate running down the hill or you “break”, you might want to work on that because it will save your legs a bit from the hard pounding and you might even pass more than a few competitors flying downhill. The section when you turn onto Riverside Rd (the out and back) is sort of flat with a few hills. This might be a rough spot if the weather turns to be hot so keep that in mind and don’t skip aid stations. When you are heading back to LP is where you’ll have the 2 big climbs, the first one when your turn right onto 73 (ski jumps will be on your left). This is a long steep climb, so take it easy and just run uphill as comfortable as possible. Then you go through rolling terrain and right before the stop light on Mill Pond the 2nd climb begins, you’ll go up and at the light you turn left and KEEP climbing. This is the toughest hill IMO, but according to friends who did LP in previous years the crowd will be cheering you up so loud that it will make it a bit easier. (Through the 1st loop, avoid the temptation to pick up the pace just because the crowds are cheering you!) Anyway, for LP I would take it easy the whole 1st loop by NOT forcing my pace, working on nutrition and trying to get into a running rhythm. Every single downhill I would try to be as comfortable as possible and just let my body go down without breaking at all. And when going up hill I would take my time, run with “baby steps” as my coach says and avoid powering up the hill wasting energy. If you are a weaker runner, you went too hard on the bike or you are just spent from the long day you could/should consider walking up the hills. Some people train to walk the aid stations, I particularly don’t like to do that because it breaks my rhythm a lot BUT I am also NOT racing an IM. Still if I was, I would try to slow down to a light jog to assure I could eat/drink enough and cool down at each aid station and then continue running.

Anyway, take this for what it is: just my attempt to provide some pointers and/or help based on what I experienced last weekend. The LP course is definitely a tough one, so be smart, get your nutrition plan straight and be very VERY patient. Nutrition is something very personal and different thinks work for different athlete; however since this is a rough race I would consider having at least 1 bottle of sports drink, plus a gel or ½ sports bar per hr. For the run I would drink at every station and maybe add another gel/bar per hrs (if I could digest it). For sure I would alternate between water and coke through the run. Finally I tend to cramp if I don’t replenish sodium so I would take ½ a salt tablet every 2 hrs for the bike and ½ tablet every hr for the run. (I would adjust this entire plan based on the temperature)

Remember that it is all about the run and getting there with as much energy as possible. It will be a long day and pushing early on the bike will slow you down and make you pay for it on the run. Don’t let the hammer heads bother you on the bike and do your own race. If you get to run with enough energy you will pass a good number of competitors for sure…  GOOD LUCK EVERYONE, see you there!

2006-06-28 10:02 AM
in reply to: #439782

User image

Master
1557
10005002525
Maine
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
Jorge - thanks for all the detailed info! Very helpful.
2006-06-28 10:18 AM
in reply to: #468306

User image

Extreme Veteran
471
1001001001002525
Maryland
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
Excellent post, thank you...I won't be getting a chance to test the course prior to the event.

Do you know when / if Bib numbers will be assigned? I was probably the last entrant and am a little concerned I have not seen anything from them this close to the event.
2006-06-30 11:09 AM
in reply to: #439782

User image

Expert
702
500100100
Manchester, NH
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
Awesome, Jorge, Thanks!


2006-07-01 7:09 AM
in reply to: #439782

Champion
8903
500020001000500100100100100
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)

I can't possibly add a thing.  Jorge hit it right on the money.  The entire day is about saving your energy and following your nutrition / hydration plan!

 

2006-07-08 4:38 AM
in reply to: #439782

User image

Expert
1068
10002525
, District of Columbia
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
Great preview, thanks for the advice.

Bib numbers are published on Tuesday.
2006-07-08 11:47 AM
in reply to: #476493

User image

Extreme Veteran
471
1001001001002525
Maryland
Subject: RE: First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :)
I am not sure why, but I am excited to see what number I get issued. (Just like I get to see my post # increase to match yours -- 66) Oh boy, time to ride.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » First Ironman LP 06 couple questions please :) Rss Feed